All Blacks 2025
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Justin Marshall believes Sotutu and Papaili's AB ship has sailed, in no small part because the Blues style of play is not the way that Razor wants his All blacks to play. If true, this makes me unhappy. Here I was thinking it was the job of the coach to pick players and mold them to play the style he wanted.....
Just in spouts a lot of piffle about various Crusaders, and those competing for same places. Sotutu was criticised last year for not being physical enough on defence and for shirking hard carries. He seems to have remedied that this year. Skill set still wider than other NZ 8s.
The reasons given for Sotutu were frankly rubbish. Ryan just didn't like him and I also suspect there was an element of bias due to the past losses against the Crusaders in finals.
That's even stupider, he was a machine in the 2023 (I think) final. The Blues loosies kept them in the game in that match.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Justin Marshall believes Sotutu and Papaili's AB ship has sailed, in no small part because the Blues style of play is not the way that Razor wants his All blacks to play. If true, this makes me unhappy. Here I was thinking it was the job of the coach to pick players and mold them to play the style he wanted.....
Just in spouts a lot of piffle about various Crusaders, and those competing for same places. Sotutu was criticised last year for not being physical enough on defence and for shirking hard carries. He seems to have remedied that this year. Skill set still wider than other NZ 8s.
The reasons given for Sotutu were frankly rubbish. Ryan just didn't like him and I also suspect there was an element of bias due to the past losses against the Crusaders in finals.
That's even stupider, he was a machine in the 2023 (I think) final. The Blues loosies kept them in the game in that match.
Yup 2022 final. The loosies did play well that day.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter He'd signed in Japan!
Razor and Tubby love selecting players in Japan in the media.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter He'd signed in Japan!
Razor and Tubby love selecting players in Japan in the media.
Yep, pencil in 6 Frizzell 8 Ioane 10 Mounga for the first French test. You heard it here first.
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It's 2025 and people are still claiming Akira Ioane is the saviour for the ABs. A very good Super Rugby player, who never quite kicked on. As the dedicated thread showed, none of the guys we have used since Kaino have consistently done it.
Picking this ABs pack is far from straight forward, because you are balancing impact out of your front row, with the fact your two best locks are short by international standard, with the fact your two best loosies are both best when left to roam loosely.
IMO, nevermind Sititi and Savea being balanced, Barrett, Vaa'i, Sititi & Savea is extraordinarily undersized regardless of who you pair with it. The lineout will get screwed, and what you make-up for in x-factor, you lose proper grunt that allows you to use the x-factor.
You could make a serious argument that his work-rate and height means Holland should start. I won't pretend I am not biased, but picking Holland over Patty T shouldn't even be a consideration. That pack desperately lacks height.
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@No-Quarter He'd signed in Japan!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter He'd signed in Japan!
After getting the quiet word he wasn't in the AB plans.....
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter He'd signed in Japan!
That didn't stop them trying to get Frizell back or picking Cane. Clearly they weren't interested in Akira.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter He'd signed in Japan!
That didn't stop them trying to get Frizell back or picking Cane. Clearly they weren't interested in Akira.
They did not pick Frizell.
I can see a slight difference between Sam and Akira. What do you think it might be?
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It's 2025 and people are still claiming Akira Ioane is the saviour for the ABs. A very good Super Rugby player, who never quite kicked on. As the dedicated thread showed, none of the guys we have used since Kaino have consistently done it.
Picking this ABs pack is far from straight forward, because you are balancing impact out of your front row, with the fact your two best locks are short by international standard, with the fact your two best loosies are both best when left to roam loosely.
IMO, nevermind Sititi and Savea being balanced, Barrett, Vaa'i, Sititi & Savea is extraordinarily undersized regardless of who you pair with it. The lineout will get screwed, and what you make-up for in x-factor, you lose proper grunt that allows you to use the x-factor.
You could make a serious argument that his work-rate and height means Holland should start. I won't pretend I am not biased, but picking Holland over Patty T shouldn't even be a consideration. That pack desperately lacks height.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
It's 2025 and people are still claiming Akira Ioane is the saviour for the ABs. A very good Super Rugby player, who never quite kicked on. As the dedicated thread showed, none of the guys we have used since Kaino have consistently done it.
It's less he's the saviour and more that of all the guys that have been used since Kaino he's the one who has the most attributes that the Fern seems to be crying out for.
But he's the one given the least opportunities by the coaching squad. @Chris-B's bestie Frizell made one tackle in a RWC final and Tubby Ryan talks him up in the media as a player to bring back from Japan. Blackadder is an auto pick when not injured without ever showing he's the man.
Akira never got a chance to play the tight game he played last year for the ABs as he was always used as a wide playing 6.
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I mean all of our issues with the balance of the loosies is because the coaches didn't want Akira, despite being a super talented big body with AB experience and in career best form. Their personal beef with Akira is really, really hurting them now.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
Their personal beef with Akira is really, really hurting them now.
Personal beef and petty personalities, or things they wanted him to fix that he didn't? None of us really know.
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my only problem with AI is his age, he's 29 or 30? and probably not the finished article, i doubt can fine turn his game for the international stage (i think he could have if given a good chance)....so he MIGHT do a job through the next world cup, but not exactly a long term solution
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
The problem with Finau was his last 10mins against the Blues. That's a bunting of red flags for tight Tests.
Pretty good try saving tackle on Clarke.
He's undoubtedly got all the physical attributes, but he needs to fix his decision making. You can't go giving away multiple penalties under pressure like that.
Chiefs lost 3 second rowers and Finau had to play 80. I thought he was very effective indeed in first 60 mins. Then did trysaver tackle and goalline defence after he would have been subbed. It was ENS for one of those penalties too, not Finau. So I think the comments are a bit harsh.
@ARHS said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
The problem with Finau was his last 10mins against the Blues. That's a bunting of red flags for tight Tests.
Pretty good try saving tackle on Clarke.
He's undoubtedly got all the physical attributes, but he needs to fix his decision making. You can't go giving away multiple penalties under pressure like that.
Chiefs lost 3 second rowers and Finau had to play 80. I thought he was very effective indeed in first 60 mins. Then did trysaver tackle and goalline defence after he would have been subbed. It was ENS for one of those penalties too, not Finau. So I think the comments are a bit harsh.
I'd have to check tape, it wouldn't be the first time the camera and commentators have led us astray.
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my only problem with AI is his age, he's 29 or 30? and probably not the finished article, i doubt can fine turn his game for the international stage (i think he could have if given a good chance)....so he MIGHT do a job through the next world cup, but not exactly a long term solution
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
my only problem with AI is his age, he's 29 or 30? and probably not the finished article, i doubt can fine turn his game for the international stage (i think he could have if given a good chance)....so he MIGHT do a job through the next world cup, but not exactly a long term solution
Rugby is about RWC cycles, so if Akira is the best blindside now, I don't care if he's not going to make the next Lions series.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
my only problem with AI is his age, he's 29 or 30? and probably not the finished article, i doubt can fine turn his game for the international stage (i think he could have if given a good chance)....so he MIGHT do a job through the next world cup, but not exactly a long term solution
Rugby is about RWC cycles, so if Akira is the best blindside now, I don't care if he's not going to make the next Lions series.
@antipodean ideally maybe both? bring him back but also identify the next cap off the rank so they might have 20 games off the bench before stepping up...rather than just looking at the next world cup and then come 2028 we have the same argument a pick another 30 year old that "will do"
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
It's 2025 and people are still claiming Akira Ioane is the saviour for the ABs. A very good Super Rugby player, who never quite kicked on. As the dedicated thread showed, none of the guys we have used since Kaino have consistently done it.
It's less he's the saviour and more that of all the guys that have been used since Kaino he's the one who has the most attributes that the Fern seems to be crying out for.
But he's the one given the least opportunities by the coaching squad. @Chris-B's bestie Frizell made one tackle in a RWC final and Tubby Ryan talks him up in the media as a player to bring back from Japan. Blackadder is an auto pick when not injured without ever showing he's the man.
Akira never got a chance to play the tight game he played last year for the ABs as he was always used as a wide playing 6.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
It's 2025 and people are still claiming Akira Ioane is the saviour for the ABs. A very good Super Rugby player, who never quite kicked on. As the dedicated thread showed, none of the guys we have used since Kaino have consistently done it.
It's less he's the saviour and more that of all the guys that have been used since Kaino he's the one who has the most attributes that the Fern seems to be crying out for.
But he's the one given the least opportunities by the coaching squad. @Chris-B's bestie Frizell made one tackle in a RWC final and Tubby Ryan talks him up in the media as a player to bring back from Japan. Blackadder is an auto pick when not injured without ever showing he's the man.
Akira never got a chance to play the tight game he played last year for the ABs as he was always used as a wide playing 6.
That's a very fair and reason way of thinking but the stats in this thread don't lie: https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/post/1048866
We lost four on the bounce with Akira at 6 (SA 2x, FRA & IRE) - not suggesting this was his fault entirely, but the last of those was the first test in SA, which was Ryan's first as forwards coach. Frizell was brought back for that second test, played very well and had the edge on the jersey from that moment onwards. For all the critique of Frizell, from that moment onwards, of tests he started at 6, we only lost 2. The next one against Argentina, and the last one, being the RWC final, where he was anonymous - but to say he shouldn't have been there is re-writing history.
In another time, could Akira have had that jersey? Quite possibly, BUT he got a pretty fair suck of the sav. Not many guys get to lose four in a row before they get dropped when they have very little in regards to a proven performance level at test level.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
It's 2025 and people are still claiming Akira Ioane is the saviour for the ABs. A very good Super Rugby player, who never quite kicked on. As the dedicated thread showed, none of the guys we have used since Kaino have consistently done it.
It's less he's the saviour and more that of all the guys that have been used since Kaino he's the one who has the most attributes that the Fern seems to be crying out for.
But he's the one given the least opportunities by the coaching squad. @Chris-B's bestie Frizell made one tackle in a RWC final and Tubby Ryan talks him up in the media as a player to bring back from Japan. Blackadder is an auto pick when not injured without ever showing he's the man.
Akira never got a chance to play the tight game he played last year for the ABs as he was always used as a wide playing 6.
That's a very fair and reason way of thinking but the stats in this thread don't lie: https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/post/1048866
We lost four on the bounce with Akira at 6 (SA 2x, FRA & IRE) - not suggesting this was his fault entirely, but the last of those was the first test in SA, which was Ryan's first as forwards coach. Frizell was brought back for that second test, played very well and had the edge on the jersey from that moment onwards. For all the critique of Frizell, from that moment onwards, of tests he started at 6, we only lost 2. The next one against Argentina, and the last one, being the RWC final, where he was anonymous - but to say he shouldn't have been there is re-writing history.
In another time, could Akira have had that jersey? Quite possibly, BUT he got a pretty fair suck of the sav. Not many guys get to lose four in a row before they get dropped when they have very little in regards to a proven performance level at test level.
@frugby am i misunderstanding what on the bounce means? looks like dalton and blackadder were used in losses in between the four you mention...suggesting the wider team was also not doing well
we're not talking about a run of wins...bring in AI for 4 games and get 4 losses...and drop him and win again
the wins that guys like Jacobson and blackadder get amoungst these games are also against team like USA, italy and wales so a little different to SA, Ire and Fra that AI was used againt
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@frugby am i misunderstanding what on the bounce means? looks like dalton and blackadder were used in losses in between the four you mention...suggesting the wider team was also not doing well
we're not talking about a run of wins...bring in AI for 4 games and get 4 losses...and drop him and win again
the wins that guys like Jacobson and blackadder get amoungst these games are also against team like USA, italy and wales so a little different to SA, Ire and Fra that AI was used againt
@Kiwiwomble Akira had a run of losing four tests in a row in tests where he started, sorry if that wasn’t clear.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter He'd signed in Japan!
After getting the quiet word he wasn't in the AB plans.....
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter He'd signed in Japan!
After getting the quiet word he wasn't in the AB plans.....
Is there any actual evidence of this happening?
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
It's 2025 and people are still claiming Akira Ioane is the saviour for the ABs. A very good Super Rugby player, who never quite kicked on. As the dedicated thread showed, none of the guys we have used since Kaino have consistently done it.
It's less he's the saviour and more that of all the guys that have been used since Kaino he's the one who has the most attributes that the Fern seems to be crying out for.
But he's the one given the least opportunities by the coaching squad. @Chris-B's bestie Frizell made one tackle in a RWC final and Tubby Ryan talks him up in the media as a player to bring back from Japan. Blackadder is an auto pick when not injured without ever showing he's the man.
Akira never got a chance to play the tight game he played last year for the ABs as he was always used as a wide playing 6.
That's a very fair and reason way of thinking but the stats in this thread don't lie: https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/post/1048866
We lost four on the bounce with Akira at 6 (SA 2x, FRA & IRE) - not suggesting this was his fault entirely, but the last of those was the first test in SA, which was Ryan's first as forwards coach. Frizell was brought back for that second test, played very well and had the edge on the jersey from that moment onwards. For all the critique of Frizell, from that moment onwards, of tests he started at 6, we only lost 2. The next one against Argentina, and the last one, being the RWC final, where he was anonymous - but to say he shouldn't have been there is re-writing history.
In another time, could Akira have had that jersey? Quite possibly, BUT he got a pretty fair suck of the sav. Not many guys get to lose four in a row before they get dropped when they have very little in regards to a proven performance level at test level.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
It's 2025 and people are still claiming Akira Ioane is the saviour for the ABs. A very good Super Rugby player, who never quite kicked on. As the dedicated thread showed, none of the guys we have used since Kaino have consistently done it.
It's less he's the saviour and more that of all the guys that have been used since Kaino he's the one who has the most attributes that the Fern seems to be crying out for.
But he's the one given the least opportunities by the coaching squad. @Chris-B's bestie Frizell made one tackle in a RWC final and Tubby Ryan talks him up in the media as a player to bring back from Japan. Blackadder is an auto pick when not injured without ever showing he's the man.
Akira never got a chance to play the tight game he played last year for the ABs as he was always used as a wide playing 6.
That's a very fair and reason way of thinking but the stats in this thread don't lie: https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/post/1048866
We lost four on the bounce with Akira at 6 (SA 2x, FRA & IRE) - not suggesting this was his fault entirely, but the last of those was the first test in SA, which was Ryan's first as forwards coach. Frizell was brought back for that second test, played very well and had the edge on the jersey from that moment onwards. For all the critique of Frizell, from that moment onwards, of tests he started at 6, we only lost 2. The next one against Argentina, and the last one, being the RWC final, where he was anonymous - but to say he shouldn't have been there is re-writing history.
In another time, could Akira have had that jersey? Quite possibly, BUT he got a pretty fair suck of the sav. Not many guys get to lose four in a row before they get dropped when they have very little in regards to a proven performance level at test level.
Those games weren't consecutive losses. Also we lost 6 out of 7 games against South Africa, Ireland, France, Ireland, Ireland, Ireland, South Africa from the end of 21 to mid 22. Sam Cane started in 5 out of 7 of those.
We've lost 3 out of 3 against France and Akira Ioane played in 1 of those.
In the 20's we played South Africa 9x and lost 6. Akira played in 4 and we won 2. So a 50% win rate is better than the team win rate over that period.
Frizell was actually brought back into the 1st test against SA in 2022 an dropped a pass cold near the end of the game which the Boks scored off. From 11 minute mark in the below video.
Also Frizell started in those first two historic losses against Argentina. First loss to Argentina. First loss at home to Argentina.
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what i see looking at those stats is we were rotating through five different guys at blindside during that period and none of them got more than 3 games in a row to bed down, all during covid disruptions when lots of guys we'rent their best
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what's hilarious about "we lost games so that player should get fucked" is Ardie Savea started every one of those games as well. Jordan, Reiko. Jordie Barrett. A long list of guys who will be walk up starts this year.
we lost four times last year FFS and it won't cost anyone their spots.
Fact is, i think to our detriment, once you are in the team you get a very long leash, but the newbies and fringe players need to either star early, or you are gone. Actually it's not even that, you can't have any drop in your standards or you're gone.
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Blaming one player for losses to the best teams in the world is the height of absurdity.
There are people that just cannot seem to grasp the concept of a player improving over time, despite high profile examples like Nonu and Kaino (a 6!) who both clearly had the talent but started very slowly before becoming the worlds best (and arguably the best ever for those two).
The fact is Akira had come of age as a player. He had added bulk, tightened his game right up, and spent the last year of Super bitch slapping every other loosie in NZ around, including the Super final. The difference between him and Kaino is Kaino was persisted with by the coaches, and became the worlds best. Akira was not even considered for selection due to a personal beef / bias from our current coaches, so who knows what he could have achieved?
We are a small country with limited resources, it is incredibly frustrating that our coaches have just snubbed someone NZR has invested so much in over the years when they finally reach their potential. I am really surprised people aren't more up in arms about it, it's a ridiculous waste of a special talent.
