Chiefs v Blues
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Finlay Christie has (rightfully) copped a lot of criticism on here but Sam Nock's kicking was abysmal on Saturday.
@Mr-Fish said in Chiefs v Blues:
Finlay Christie has (rightfully) copped a lot of criticism on here but Sam Nock's kicking was abysmal on Saturday.
I agree really , not really a Christie fan, but in general would start him ahead of Nock. I don't get the Nock love , he's ok ,but in I don't think he anything special by any means.
I do suspect we mark players who are or have been ABs a lot harder? Understand why up to a point, but for some players don't seem to be makred the same. -
@Mr-Fish said in Chiefs v Blues:
Finlay Christie has (rightfully) copped a lot of criticism on here but Sam Nock's kicking was abysmal on Saturday.
I agree really , not really a Christie fan, but in general would start him ahead of Nock. I don't get the Nock love , he's ok ,but in I don't think he anything special by any means.
I do suspect we mark players who are or have been ABs a lot harder? Understand why up to a point, but for some players don't seem to be makred the same.@Dan54 said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Mr-Fish said in Chiefs v Blues:
Finlay Christie has (rightfully) copped a lot of criticism on here but Sam Nock's kicking was abysmal on Saturday.
I agree really , not really a Christie fan, but in general would start him ahead of Nock. I don't get the Nock love , he's ok ,but in I don't think he anything special by any means.
I do suspect we mark players who are or have been ABs a lot harder? Understand why up to a point, but for some players don't seem to be makred the same.The point about Christie is how slow he is to get to and/or clear the ball. The Blues last year were all about fast ball and getting moving close in. This year they're slower but also have gone a long way from last years blueprint. I find it confusing how people are saying 'they haven't evolved their gameplan'. I think that is rubbish, they have gone too far - they are kicking probably twice as much as last year, for example
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@Mr-Fish said in Chiefs v Blues:
Finlay Christie has (rightfully) copped a lot of criticism on here but Sam Nock's kicking was abysmal on Saturday.
I agree really , not really a Christie fan, but in general would start him ahead of Nock. I don't get the Nock love , he's ok ,but in I don't think he anything special by any means.
I do suspect we mark players who are or have been ABs a lot harder? Understand why up to a point, but for some players don't seem to be makred the same.@Dan54 said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Mr-Fish said in Chiefs v Blues:
Finlay Christie has (rightfully) copped a lot of criticism on here but Sam Nock's kicking was abysmal on Saturday.
I agree really , not really a Christie fan, but in general would start him ahead of Nock. I don't get the Nock love , he's ok ,but in I don't think he anything special by any means.
I do suspect we mark players who are or have been ABs a lot harder? Understand why up to a point, but for some players don't seem to be makred the same.This feels like gaslighting. Christie doesn't get marked hard because he was an All Black.
The Blues attack when Christie starts looks really poor because he has real issues on attack - he's both a slow and poor decision maker from the breakdown, he has a high error rate and he struggles with messy ball.
That's not to say Nock is perfect - Nock has issues on defence and his kicking game is weak.
However - on balance I'd prefer Nock to keep starting. I'm willing to roll with Nock's weaknesses and get the benefit of the attacking shape.
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I think Nock fits the Blues style better with his quicker service, but then you need to account for his other shortcomings; kicking game is hit and miss, defence creaky, and he doesnt boss his forwards (9s should be made to watch and listen to Aaron Smith)
I have struggled to understand both the Blues and Nock in thier persistence here....Nock in particular, he seems comfortable in being a bench player, where is the drive to be a starter, and if Funaki wasnt injured, he'd likely not even be on the bench. Always thought a change of environment would do him great.
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@Dan54 said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Mr-Fish said in Chiefs v Blues:
Finlay Christie has (rightfully) copped a lot of criticism on here but Sam Nock's kicking was abysmal on Saturday.
I agree really , not really a Christie fan, but in general would start him ahead of Nock. I don't get the Nock love , he's ok ,but in I don't think he anything special by any means.
I do suspect we mark players who are or have been ABs a lot harder? Understand why up to a point, but for some players don't seem to be makred the same.The point about Christie is how slow he is to get to and/or clear the ball. The Blues last year were all about fast ball and getting moving close in. This year they're slower but also have gone a long way from last years blueprint. I find it confusing how people are saying 'they haven't evolved their gameplan'. I think that is rubbish, they have gone too far - they are kicking probably twice as much as last year, for example
@Machpants said in Chiefs v Blues:
This year they're slower but also have gone a long way from last years blueprint. I find it confusing how people are saying 'they haven't evolved their gameplan'. I think that is rubbish, they have gone too far - they are kicking probably twice as much as last year, for example
Volume of kicking is probably similar but the type of kicking has changed.
Last year the Blues refused to play rugby in their own half. This year there's been a lot of cross kicks, short kick etc. The poorly directed cross kicks in particular are cancer to a large forward pack. Thats a large part of why the pack has gassed in several games and the second halves have generally been bad
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@Machpants said in Chiefs v Blues:
This year they're slower but also have gone a long way from last years blueprint. I find it confusing how people are saying 'they haven't evolved their gameplan'. I think that is rubbish, they have gone too far - they are kicking probably twice as much as last year, for example
Volume of kicking is probably similar but the type of kicking has changed.
Last year the Blues refused to play rugby in their own half. This year there's been a lot of cross kicks, short kick etc. The poorly directed cross kicks in particular are cancer to a large forward pack. Thats a large part of why the pack has gassed in several games and the second halves have generally been bad
@Duluth said in Chiefs v Blues:
This year there's been a lot of cross kicks, short kick etc.
is BB also the backline coach?
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@Dan54 said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Mr-Fish said in Chiefs v Blues:
Finlay Christie has (rightfully) copped a lot of criticism on here but Sam Nock's kicking was abysmal on Saturday.
I agree really , not really a Christie fan, but in general would start him ahead of Nock. I don't get the Nock love , he's ok ,but in I don't think he anything special by any means.
I do suspect we mark players who are or have been ABs a lot harder? Understand why up to a point, but for some players don't seem to be makred the same.This feels like gaslighting. Christie doesn't get marked hard because he was an All Black.
The Blues attack when Christie starts looks really poor because he has real issues on attack - he's both a slow and poor decision maker from the breakdown, he has a high error rate and he struggles with messy ball.
That's not to say Nock is perfect - Nock has issues on defence and his kicking game is weak.
However - on balance I'd prefer Nock to keep starting. I'm willing to roll with Nock's weaknesses and get the benefit of the attacking shape.
@KiwiMurph said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Dan54 said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Mr-Fish said in Chiefs v Blues:
Finlay Christie has (rightfully) copped a lot of criticism on here but Sam Nock's kicking was abysmal on Saturday.
I agree really , not really a Christie fan, but in general would start him ahead of Nock. I don't get the Nock love , he's ok ,but in I don't think he anything special by any means.
I do suspect we mark players who are or have been ABs a lot harder? Understand why up to a point, but for some players don't seem to be makred the same.This feels like gaslighting. Christie doesn't get marked hard because he was an All Black.
The Blues attack when Christie starts looks really poor because he has real issues on attack - he's both a slow and poor decision maker from the breakdown, he has a high error rate and he struggles with messy ball.
That's not to say Nock is perfect - Nock has issues on defence and his kicking game is weak.
However - on balance I'd prefer Nock to keep starting. I'm willing to roll with Nock's weaknesses and get the benefit of the attacking shape.
I not a Blues man, so I don't probably really examine how some of their players go. But just my opinion is that Nock and Plummer are handbrakes on Blues if they trying to play anything but power style they played last year. I also said same about BB, he wasn't Blues'problem in first few games (neither were Nock,Chistie etc) , the problem in first games were forwards, and their ability to support.
Mind you that's just how I saw it, and as I say I pretty neutral on how Blues go. -
@Dan54 said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Mr-Fish said in Chiefs v Blues:
Finlay Christie has (rightfully) copped a lot of criticism on here but Sam Nock's kicking was abysmal on Saturday.
I agree really , not really a Christie fan, but in general would start him ahead of Nock. I don't get the Nock love , he's ok ,but in I don't think he anything special by any means.
I do suspect we mark players who are or have been ABs a lot harder? Understand why up to a point, but for some players don't seem to be makred the same.The point about Christie is how slow he is to get to and/or clear the ball. The Blues last year were all about fast ball and getting moving close in. This year they're slower but also have gone a long way from last years blueprint. I find it confusing how people are saying 'they haven't evolved their gameplan'. I think that is rubbish, they have gone too far - they are kicking probably twice as much as last year, for example
@Machpants said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Dan54 said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Mr-Fish said in Chiefs v Blues:
Finlay Christie has (rightfully) copped a lot of criticism on here but Sam Nock's kicking was abysmal on Saturday.
I agree really , not really a Christie fan, but in general would start him ahead of Nock. I don't get the Nock love , he's ok ,but in I don't think he anything special by any means.
I do suspect we mark players who are or have been ABs a lot harder? Understand why up to a point, but for some players don't seem to be makred the same.The point about Christie is how slow he is to get to and/or clear the ball. The Blues last year were all about fast ball and getting moving close in. This year they're slower but also have gone a long way from last years blueprint. I find it confusing how people are saying 'they haven't evolved their gameplan'. I think that is rubbish, they have gone too far - they are kicking probably twice as much as last year, for example
On ARP Bryn Hall mentioned that the stats indicated that Christie was fastest NZ halfback at getting to rucks. After that…
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@KiwiMurph said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Dan54 said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Mr-Fish said in Chiefs v Blues:
Finlay Christie has (rightfully) copped a lot of criticism on here but Sam Nock's kicking was abysmal on Saturday.
I agree really , not really a Christie fan, but in general would start him ahead of Nock. I don't get the Nock love , he's ok ,but in I don't think he anything special by any means.
I do suspect we mark players who are or have been ABs a lot harder? Understand why up to a point, but for some players don't seem to be makred the same.This feels like gaslighting. Christie doesn't get marked hard because he was an All Black.
The Blues attack when Christie starts looks really poor because he has real issues on attack - he's both a slow and poor decision maker from the breakdown, he has a high error rate and he struggles with messy ball.
That's not to say Nock is perfect - Nock has issues on defence and his kicking game is weak.
However - on balance I'd prefer Nock to keep starting. I'm willing to roll with Nock's weaknesses and get the benefit of the attacking shape.
I not a Blues man, so I don't probably really examine how some of their players go. But just my opinion is that Nock and Plummer are handbrakes on Blues if they trying to play anything but power style they played last year. I also said same about BB, he wasn't Blues'problem in first few games (neither were Nock,Chistie etc) , the problem in first games were forwards, and their ability to support.
Mind you that's just how I saw it, and as I say I pretty neutral on how Blues go.@Dan54 said in Chiefs v Blues:
@KiwiMurph said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Dan54 said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Mr-Fish said in Chiefs v Blues:
Finlay Christie has (rightfully) copped a lot of criticism on here but Sam Nock's kicking was abysmal on Saturday.
I agree really , not really a Christie fan, but in general would start him ahead of Nock. I don't get the Nock love , he's ok ,but in I don't think he anything special by any means.
I do suspect we mark players who are or have been ABs a lot harder? Understand why up to a point, but for some players don't seem to be makred the same.This feels like gaslighting. Christie doesn't get marked hard because he was an All Black.
The Blues attack when Christie starts looks really poor because he has real issues on attack - he's both a slow and poor decision maker from the breakdown, he has a high error rate and he struggles with messy ball.
That's not to say Nock is perfect - Nock has issues on defence and his kicking game is weak.
However - on balance I'd prefer Nock to keep starting. I'm willing to roll with Nock's weaknesses and get the benefit of the attacking shape.
I not a Blues man, so I don't probably really examine how some of their players go. But just my opinion is that Nock and Plummer are handbrakes on Blues if they trying to play anything but power style they played last year. I also said same about BB, he wasn't Blues'problem in first few games (neither were Nock,Chistie etc) , the problem in first games were forwards, and their ability to support.
Mind you that's just how I saw it, and as I say I pretty neutral on how Blues go.I am an admirer of Harry Plummer as a great asset in the Blues squad. That said, it is obvious that BB and SP have dramatically upped the Blues’s tempo when they’ve been at 10. That has significantly improved the effectiveness of the Blues backs.
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@Dan54 said in Chiefs v Blues:
@KiwiMurph said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Dan54 said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Mr-Fish said in Chiefs v Blues:
Finlay Christie has (rightfully) copped a lot of criticism on here but Sam Nock's kicking was abysmal on Saturday.
I agree really , not really a Christie fan, but in general would start him ahead of Nock. I don't get the Nock love , he's ok ,but in I don't think he anything special by any means.
I do suspect we mark players who are or have been ABs a lot harder? Understand why up to a point, but for some players don't seem to be makred the same.This feels like gaslighting. Christie doesn't get marked hard because he was an All Black.
The Blues attack when Christie starts looks really poor because he has real issues on attack - he's both a slow and poor decision maker from the breakdown, he has a high error rate and he struggles with messy ball.
That's not to say Nock is perfect - Nock has issues on defence and his kicking game is weak.
However - on balance I'd prefer Nock to keep starting. I'm willing to roll with Nock's weaknesses and get the benefit of the attacking shape.
I not a Blues man, so I don't probably really examine how some of their players go. But just my opinion is that Nock and Plummer are handbrakes on Blues if they trying to play anything but power style they played last year. I also said same about BB, he wasn't Blues'problem in first few games (neither were Nock,Chistie etc) , the problem in first games were forwards, and their ability to support.
Mind you that's just how I saw it, and as I say I pretty neutral on how Blues go.I am an admirer of Harry Plummer as a great asset in the Blues squad. That said, it is obvious that BB and SP have dramatically upped the Blues’s tempo when they’ve been at 10. That has significantly improved the effectiveness of the Blues backs.
@pakman said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Dan54 said in Chiefs v Blues:
@KiwiMurph said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Dan54 said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Mr-Fish said in Chiefs v Blues:
Finlay Christie has (rightfully) copped a lot of criticism on here but Sam Nock's kicking was abysmal on Saturday.
I agree really , not really a Christie fan, but in general would start him ahead of Nock. I don't get the Nock love , he's ok ,but in I don't think he anything special by any means.
I do suspect we mark players who are or have been ABs a lot harder? Understand why up to a point, but for some players don't seem to be makred the same.This feels like gaslighting. Christie doesn't get marked hard because he was an All Black.
The Blues attack when Christie starts looks really poor because he has real issues on attack - he's both a slow and poor decision maker from the breakdown, he has a high error rate and he struggles with messy ball.
That's not to say Nock is perfect - Nock has issues on defence and his kicking game is weak.
However - on balance I'd prefer Nock to keep starting. I'm willing to roll with Nock's weaknesses and get the benefit of the attacking shape.
I not a Blues man, so I don't probably really examine how some of their players go. But just my opinion is that Nock and Plummer are handbrakes on Blues if they trying to play anything but power style they played last year. I also said same about BB, he wasn't Blues'problem in first few games (neither were Nock,Chistie etc) , the problem in first games were forwards, and their ability to support.
Mind you that's just how I saw it, and as I say I pretty neutral on how Blues go.I am an admirer of Harry Plummer as a great asset in the Blues squad. That said, it is obvious that BB and SP have dramatically upped the Blues’s tempo when they’ve been at 10. That has significantly improved the effectiveness of the Blues backs.
This might explain why Plummer's AB chances were somewhat limited.
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@Dan54 said in Chiefs v Blues:
@KiwiMurph said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Dan54 said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Mr-Fish said in Chiefs v Blues:
Finlay Christie has (rightfully) copped a lot of criticism on here but Sam Nock's kicking was abysmal on Saturday.
I agree really , not really a Christie fan, but in general would start him ahead of Nock. I don't get the Nock love , he's ok ,but in I don't think he anything special by any means.
I do suspect we mark players who are or have been ABs a lot harder? Understand why up to a point, but for some players don't seem to be makred the same.This feels like gaslighting. Christie doesn't get marked hard because he was an All Black.
The Blues attack when Christie starts looks really poor because he has real issues on attack - he's both a slow and poor decision maker from the breakdown, he has a high error rate and he struggles with messy ball.
That's not to say Nock is perfect - Nock has issues on defence and his kicking game is weak.
However - on balance I'd prefer Nock to keep starting. I'm willing to roll with Nock's weaknesses and get the benefit of the attacking shape.
I not a Blues man, so I don't probably really examine how some of their players go. But just my opinion is that Nock and Plummer are handbrakes on Blues if they trying to play anything but power style they played last year. I also said same about BB, he wasn't Blues'problem in first few games (neither were Nock,Chistie etc) , the problem in first games were forwards, and their ability to support.
Mind you that's just how I saw it, and as I say I pretty neutral on how Blues go.I am an admirer of Harry Plummer as a great asset in the Blues squad. That said, it is obvious that BB and SP have dramatically upped the Blues’s tempo when they’ve been at 10. That has significantly improved the effectiveness of the Blues backs.
@pakman said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Dan54 said in Chiefs v Blues:
@KiwiMurph said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Dan54 said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Mr-Fish said in Chiefs v Blues:
Finlay Christie has (rightfully) copped a lot of criticism on here but Sam Nock's kicking was abysmal on Saturday.
I agree really , not really a Christie fan, but in general would start him ahead of Nock. I don't get the Nock love , he's ok ,but in I don't think he anything special by any means.
I do suspect we mark players who are or have been ABs a lot harder? Understand why up to a point, but for some players don't seem to be makred the same.This feels like gaslighting. Christie doesn't get marked hard because he was an All Black.
The Blues attack when Christie starts looks really poor because he has real issues on attack - he's both a slow and poor decision maker from the breakdown, he has a high error rate and he struggles with messy ball.
That's not to say Nock is perfect - Nock has issues on defence and his kicking game is weak.
However - on balance I'd prefer Nock to keep starting. I'm willing to roll with Nock's weaknesses and get the benefit of the attacking shape.
I not a Blues man, so I don't probably really examine how some of their players go. But just my opinion is that Nock and Plummer are handbrakes on Blues if they trying to play anything but power style they played last year. I also said same about BB, he wasn't Blues'problem in first few games (neither were Nock,Chistie etc) , the problem in first games were forwards, and their ability to support.
Mind you that's just how I saw it, and as I say I pretty neutral on how Blues go.I am an admirer of Harry Plummer as a great asset in the Blues squad. That said, it is obvious that BB and SP have dramatically upped the Blues’s tempo when they’ve been at 10. That has significantly improved the effectiveness of the Blues backs.
Mate, I always been a Plummer fan, would be in my squad too. Remember he was mainly at 12 for Blues until Perofeta and Sullivan were out last year.
Not against him, but he not what I would call a creative 10. -
@KiwiMurph said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Dan54 said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Mr-Fish said in Chiefs v Blues:
Finlay Christie has (rightfully) copped a lot of criticism on here but Sam Nock's kicking was abysmal on Saturday.
I agree really , not really a Christie fan, but in general would start him ahead of Nock. I don't get the Nock love , he's ok ,but in I don't think he anything special by any means.
I do suspect we mark players who are or have been ABs a lot harder? Understand why up to a point, but for some players don't seem to be makred the same.This feels like gaslighting. Christie doesn't get marked hard because he was an All Black.
The Blues attack when Christie starts looks really poor because he has real issues on attack - he's both a slow and poor decision maker from the breakdown, he has a high error rate and he struggles with messy ball.
That's not to say Nock is perfect - Nock has issues on defence and his kicking game is weak.
However - on balance I'd prefer Nock to keep starting. I'm willing to roll with Nock's weaknesses and get the benefit of the attacking shape.
I not a Blues man, so I don't probably really examine how some of their players go. But just my opinion is that Nock and Plummer are handbrakes on Blues if they trying to play anything but power style they played last year. I also said same about BB, he wasn't Blues'problem in first few games (neither were Nock,Chistie etc) , the problem in first games were forwards, and their ability to support.
Mind you that's just how I saw it, and as I say I pretty neutral on how Blues go.@Dan54 said in Chiefs v Blues:
But just my opinion is that Nock and Plummer are handbrakes on Blues if they trying to play anything but power style they played last year.
I can understand the comment regarding Plummer
I don't understand how Nock is a handbrake and Finlay Christie isn't?
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@Dan54 said in Chiefs v Blues:
But just my opinion is that Nock and Plummer are handbrakes on Blues if they trying to play anything but power style they played last year.
I can understand the comment regarding Plummer
I don't understand how Nock is a handbrake and Finlay Christie isn't?
@KiwiMurph said in Chiefs v Blues:
@Dan54 said in Chiefs v Blues:
But just my opinion is that Nock and Plummer are handbrakes on Blues if they trying to play anything but power style they played last year.
I can understand the comment regarding Plummer
I don't understand how Nock is a handbrake and Finlay Christie isn't?
I not sure Nock is more of a handbrake than Christie, although maybe Christie is a little quicker. I maybe thinking of the Christie/Nock battle being a couple of similar ability 9s, so no sure why only one gets pointed at. Once again, both are capable players at super level, I believe.
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Nock has a great pass, just not a great tactician or kicker. I don't get the heavy criticism of Christie.
I assume that team tactics mean having the collision points in the opposition half, so a lot more kicks by 9. But they need to get contestable to work. -
Nock has a great pass, just not a great tactician or kicker. I don't get the heavy criticism of Christie.
I assume that team tactics mean having the collision points in the opposition half, so a lot more kicks by 9. But they need to get contestable to work.@ARHS said in Chiefs v Blues:
Nock has a great pass, just not a great tactician or kicker.
Nock has all the skills, but has never been able to execute them. despite excelling at times - the turnover at Eden Park against the Hurricanes last year was a notable example.
His passing is excellent, he has sometime been very good to the ruck or poor, same with his box kicking which has been good or poor.
A very frustrating player. That was the performance profile that we expected from the Blues for a long time. Reversion to that mean is unacceptable.
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@Mr-Fish said in Chiefs v Blues:
Nock can't kick, Christie can't pass. It's a tough world.
I wouldn't say Nock can't kick. He's got a big box kick. Just tends to overcook his kicks sometimes.
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@Mr-Fish said in Chiefs v Blues:
Nock can't kick, Christie can't pass. It's a tough world.
I wouldn't say Nock can't kick. He's got a big box kick. Just tends to overcook his kicks sometimes.
@African-Monkey yea he certainly has a.kicking game, but like most of his game, inconsistent.
