QF Chiefs v Blues
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@brodean said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@frugby said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
Being real, not starting your best loose forward, because you want “impact” is woke nonsense. Wallace Sititi should be playing the 80. Monumental error from McMillan.
Sititi seemed to go missing when the going got tough for his team - like he did in last years final.
The Chiefs were almost exclusively defending for the final 20 minutes or so. Not too much a player can do in that situation (except maybe strip Sotutu of the ball and send the Chiefs off on a counter attack).
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Will be interesting to see where Papali'i is in terms of AB selection. His name has barely been mentioned all year, but does he have a role there? Hard to know whether he's in the picture or not.
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@Mr-Fish said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@brodean said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@frugby said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
Being real, not starting your best loose forward, because you want “impact” is woke nonsense. Wallace Sititi should be playing the 80. Monumental error from McMillan.
Sititi seemed to go missing when the going got tough for his team - like he did in last years final.
The Chiefs were almost exclusively defending for the final 20 minutes or so. Not too much a player can do in that situation (except maybe strip Sotutu of the ball and send the Chiefs off on a counter attack).
Maybe he could make some hard tackles and win some turnovers for his team?
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@Mr-Fish said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@brodean That's exactly what he did?
He did nothing of the sort in that last 20. He made a few low impact tackles but nothing to prevent the Blues getting over the gain line.
He won a turnover out wide in the backs. He did nothing to stop the Blues forwards.
He let Kurt Eclund's try in.
He's not particularly strong in the maul and rarely joined when the Blues were using their maul. It was Vaa'i and Finau doing most of the work defending the Blues mauls.
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@Nevorian said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@Mr-Fish said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
I think the only choking from the Chiefs really was the decision to kick for goal
And if Ratima had scored that try they may have kicked on
If
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@brodean said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@Mr-Fish said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@brodean That's exactly what he did?
He did nothing of the sort in that last 20. He made a few low impact tackles but nothing to prevent the Blues getting over the gain line.
He won a turnover out wide in the backs. He did nothing to stop the Blues forwards.
He let Kurt Eclund's try in.
He's not particularly strong in the maul and rarely joined when the Blues were using their maul. It was Vaa'i and Finau doing most of the work defending the Blues mauls.
Impressive that Finau and Vaa'i on their own were basically able to counter the whole Blues forward pack at the maul.
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@Mr-Fish said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@brodean said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@Mr-Fish said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@brodean That's exactly what he did?
He did nothing of the sort in that last 20. He made a few low impact tackles but nothing to prevent the Blues getting over the gain line.
He won a turnover out wide in the backs. He did nothing to stop the Blues forwards.
He let Kurt Eclund's try in.
He's not particularly strong in the maul and rarely joined when the Blues were using their maul. It was Vaa'i and Finau doing most of the work defending the Blues mauls.
Impressive that Finau and Vaa'i on their own were basically able to counter the whole Blues forward pack at the maul.
Most of the work doesn't mean all of the work. The frontrow contributed. Not so much Sititi.
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@brodean said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@frugby said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
Being real, not starting your best loose forward, because you want “impact” is woke nonsense. Wallace Sititi should be playing the 80. Monumental error from McMillan.
Sititi seemed to go missing when the going got tough for his team - like he did in last years final.
I think you've said this a couple of times re last year, but it isn't correct. IIRC Sititi made the most tackles for the Chiefs in that final, 20-something. It was a very different game to the attacking display against the Canes, but as a loosie in a losing team it was a strong individual performance . To me it just showed that he is good going forwards and backwards.
He certainly wasn't dominant last night - but he was not really bad either - and there were mitigating factors in losing Jacobson, which shifted the plan from subbing (probably) Finau to needing him to play 80, then losing Parker to injury, so playing with 6 forwards i.e..2 loosies, and one of them knackered cause he's been playing half games all year. -
@reprobate said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@brodean said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@frugby said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
Being real, not starting your best loose forward, because you want “impact” is woke nonsense. Wallace Sititi should be playing the 80. Monumental error from McMillan.
Sititi seemed to go missing when the going got tough for his team - like he did in last years final.
I think you've said this a couple of times re last year, but it isn't correct. IIRC Sititi made the most tackles for the Chiefs in that final, 20-something.
I remember Shannon Frizell in early parts of his career making 20 tackles when the AB's lost. Making 20 tackles is meaningless when you and your team get physically dominated and you lose comfortably.
He may have made 20 tackles but he was unable to do anything to stop the Blues possession and gain line dominance in that game last year. Loose forwards who want to play in a winning team against France or South Africa need to be able to smash players back behind the advantage line, or win turnovers at the breakdown, or prevent the other team from getting the ball when their team are in possession. He did none of those things last year and the Blues forwards were allowed to walk all over the Chiefs.
Sititi failed to do stop the Blues last night forwards last night in that 20 minutes as he did in the final last year. He made zero impact against the Blues forwards last night in that facet in that last 20 minutes and overall he had a quiet game for the time that he was on when his team needed to turn up and take the game by the throat.
When you look at the games Sititi participated in last year he only won one against the top sides - against Ireland - who have a smaller pack. He's a long way from the finished article. He's a good runner with the ball, a good lineout option, and has a good tackle workrate, but he's still got to learn how to win the collisions without the ball.
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@KiwiMurph said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
I thought it was interesting when Beauden was interviewed post game the first person he mentioned when asked about his kick strategy was Vern Cotter - really crediting him
Was there something particularly good or new about Beauden's kicking strategy that I missed? Obviously 2 x great chips for himself, but an overall strategy? Kicking the ball away under advantage is a strategy of sorts I guess, but not a good one. I didn't see anything new, (though the chips were much better placed than usual).
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@brodean said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@reprobate said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@brodean said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@frugby said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
Being real, not starting your best loose forward, because you want “impact” is woke nonsense. Wallace Sititi should be playing the 80. Monumental error from McMillan.
Sititi seemed to go missing when the going got tough for his team - like he did in last years final.
I think you've said this a couple of times re last year, but it isn't correct. IIRC Sititi made the most tackles for the Chiefs in that final, 20-something.
I remember Shannon Frizell in early parts of his career making 20 tackles when the AB's lost. Making 20 tackles is meaningless when you and your team get physically dominated and you lose comfortably.
He may have made 20 tackles but he was unable to do anything to stop the Blues possession and gain line dominance in that game last year. Loose forwards who want to play in a winning team against France or South Africa need to be able to smash players back behind the advantage line, or win turnovers at the breakdown, or prevent the other team from getting the ball when their team are in possession. He did none of those things last year and the Blues forwards were allowed to walk all over the Chiefs.
Sititi failed to do stop the Blues last night forwards last night in that 20 minutes as he did in the final last year. He made zero impact against the Blues forwards last night in that facet in that last 20 minutes and overall he had a quiet game for the time that he was on when his team needed to turn up and take the game by the throat.
When you look at the games Sititi participated in last year he only won one against the top sides - against Ireland - who have a smaller pack. He's a long way from the finished article. He's a good runner with the ball, a good lineout option, and has a good tackle workrate, but he's still got to learn how to win the collisions without the ball.
He's one man bro, out of 23. Winning percentages based on a single player are just irrelevant. It's not impossible to play well in a beaten side, even in one that gets thrashed. Plenty of examples over the years of heroic defensive performances in outplayed sides.
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@reprobate said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@brodean said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@reprobate said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@brodean said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@frugby said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
Being real, not starting your best loose forward, because you want “impact” is woke nonsense. Wallace Sititi should be playing the 80. Monumental error from McMillan.
Sititi seemed to go missing when the going got tough for his team - like he did in last years final.
I think you've said this a couple of times re last year, but it isn't correct. IIRC Sititi made the most tackles for the Chiefs in that final, 20-something.
I remember Shannon Frizell in early parts of his career making 20 tackles when the AB's lost. Making 20 tackles is meaningless when you and your team get physically dominated and you lose comfortably.
He may have made 20 tackles but he was unable to do anything to stop the Blues possession and gain line dominance in that game last year. Loose forwards who want to play in a winning team against France or South Africa need to be able to smash players back behind the advantage line, or win turnovers at the breakdown, or prevent the other team from getting the ball when their team are in possession. He did none of those things last year and the Blues forwards were allowed to walk all over the Chiefs.
Sititi failed to do stop the Blues last night forwards last night in that 20 minutes as he did in the final last year. He made zero impact against the Blues forwards last night in that facet in that last 20 minutes and overall he had a quiet game for the time that he was on when his team needed to turn up and take the game by the throat.
When you look at the games Sititi participated in last year he only won one against the top sides - against Ireland - who have a smaller pack. He's a long way from the finished article. He's a good runner with the ball, a good lineout option, and has a good tackle workrate, but he's still got to learn how to win the collisions without the ball.
He's one man bro, out of 23. Winning percentages based on a single player are just irrelevant. It's not impossible to play well in a beaten side, even in one that gets thrashed. Plenty of examples over the years of heroic defensive performances in outplayed sides.
And that wasn't one of them.
The bottom line is he wasn't winning collisions for his team last night on defence.
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@brodean said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@reprobate said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@brodean said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@frugby said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
Being real, not starting your best loose forward, because you want “impact” is woke nonsense. Wallace Sititi should be playing the 80. Monumental error from McMillan.
Sititi seemed to go missing when the going got tough for his team - like he did in last years final.
I think you've said this a couple of times re last year, but it isn't correct. IIRC Sititi made the most tackles for the Chiefs in that final, 20-something.
I remember Shannon Frizell in early parts of his career making 20 tackles when the AB's lost. Making 20 tackles is meaningless when you and your team get physically dominated and you lose comfortably.
He may have made 20 tackles but he was unable to do anything to stop the Blues possession and gain line dominance in that game last year. Loose forwards who want to play in a winning team against France or South Africa need to be able to smash players back behind the advantage line, or win turnovers at the breakdown, or prevent the other team from getting the ball when their team are in possession. He did none of those things last year and the Blues forwards were allowed to walk all over the Chiefs.
Sititi failed to do stop the Blues last night forwards last night in that 20 minutes as he did in the final last year. He made zero impact against the Blues forwards last night in that facet in that last 20 minutes and overall he had a quiet game for the time that he was on when his team needed to turn up and take the game by the throat.
When you look at the games Sititi participated in last year he only won one against the top sides - against Ireland - who have a smaller pack. He's a long way from the finished article. He's a good runner with the ball, a good lineout option, and has a good tackle workrate, but he's still got to learn how to win the collisions without the ball.
I commend your courage in pointing out a possible weakness in Sititi's game.
He's a massive Fern favorite (and with good reason) -
@brodean said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@reprobate said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@brodean said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@reprobate said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@brodean said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@frugby said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
Being real, not starting your best loose forward, because you want “impact” is woke nonsense. Wallace Sititi should be playing the 80. Monumental error from McMillan.
Sititi seemed to go missing when the going got tough for his team - like he did in last years final.
I think you've said this a couple of times re last year, but it isn't correct. IIRC Sititi made the most tackles for the Chiefs in that final, 20-something.
I remember Shannon Frizell in early parts of his career making 20 tackles when the AB's lost. Making 20 tackles is meaningless when you and your team get physically dominated and you lose comfortably.
He may have made 20 tackles but he was unable to do anything to stop the Blues possession and gain line dominance in that game last year. Loose forwards who want to play in a winning team against France or South Africa need to be able to smash players back behind the advantage line, or win turnovers at the breakdown, or prevent the other team from getting the ball when their team are in possession. He did none of those things last year and the Blues forwards were allowed to walk all over the Chiefs.
Sititi failed to do stop the Blues last night forwards last night in that 20 minutes as he did in the final last year. He made zero impact against the Blues forwards last night in that facet in that last 20 minutes and overall he had a quiet game for the time that he was on when his team needed to turn up and take the game by the throat.
When you look at the games Sititi participated in last year he only won one against the top sides - against Ireland - who have a smaller pack. He's a long way from the finished article. He's a good runner with the ball, a good lineout option, and has a good tackle workrate, but he's still got to learn how to win the collisions without the ball.
He's one man bro, out of 23. Winning percentages based on a single player are just irrelevant. It's not impossible to play well in a beaten side, even in one that gets thrashed. Plenty of examples over the years of heroic defensive performances in outplayed sides.
And that wasn't one of them.
The bottom line is he wasn't winning collisions for his team last night on defence.
Completely agree with that. Completely diisagree re last year and the generalisations and AB games.
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@reprobate said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@KiwiMurph said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
I thought it was interesting when Beauden was interviewed post game the first person he mentioned when asked about his kick strategy was Vern Cotter - really crediting him
Was there something particularly good or new about Beauden's kicking strategy that I missed? Obviously 2 x great chips for himself, but an overall strategy? Kicking the ball away under advantage is a strategy of sorts I guess, but not a good one. I didn't see anything new, (though the chips were much better placed than usual).
I thought the mix of kicks by Beauden were good. He found grass a lot, he mixed things up - there were chips, bombs, cross kicks, long kicks.
I didn't mind the tactic last night to kick a lot - trying to play too much in your own half away from home in playoff rugby can be fraught with danger
