Force v Chiefs
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@Unco I stand corrected on that however my point is that he's not in the same class as Savea, Dagg and Nonu at their best.
Savea at his peak best left winger in the world, Nonu arguably the ABs greatest 12 ever and Dagg lit up a World Cup, especially the knockout stages. One could argue the best AB 6 performance in 2013 was Luatua stepping in for Messam last minute due to injury at a Bledisloe in Sydney in his 2nd test or something and carving up the Aussies.
@KiwiMurph said in Force v Chiefs:
Dagg lit up a World Cup, especially the knockout stages
he what? That's not how i remember it. I remember some very good stuff with equal measures of not so good stuff thrown in. He looked like the talented rookie he was. If we had lost that final i personally would have led the lynch mob for not passing on that breakout.
I don't think these are apt comparisons anyway. Savea and Dagg got shit for being awesome, and then very much not awesome. Crotty for not being a standout player until people realised all the right options he took (he's sort of Frank Bunce, a guy who gets better the higher level he plays). Nonu because he took a long time to grow in to his exception physical gifts.
Messam basically got shit because he wasn't 2011 Kaino. But then, has anyone been?
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@Nepia said in Force v Chiefs:
This thread has gotten interesting after akaan's underrating of Messam.
I think Crotty is an apt comparison, like Messam he has a lot of detractors (myself included) but he rose to the challenge last year and showed he was up to the task. Messam was the same, and at Super level he is mostly outstanding and has been for a long time.
Some people just don't like Messam I guess. I remain unconvinced that Thorne was the best 6 in the country when he was playing so I guess some people, akaan included, will never be convinced of Messam's ability.
However, Sanders isn't on the same level and it's easy to see why Messam is chosen over him. Maybe Sanders needs to sign with the Crusaders if he wants more game time.
Not like you to have a dig at a Crusaders player Neps ...
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I've thought Messam got flack because in the mid-2000's he was the player you selected when you wanted not one but two players standing at second-five for Ian Foster's Chiefs.
Messam's improved out of sight since then, but a bit like Nonu for most of his career, initial impressions die hard.
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I've thought Messam got flack because in the mid-2000's he was the player you selected when you wanted not one but two players standing at second-five for Ian Foster's Chiefs.
Messam's improved out of sight since then, but a bit like Nonu for most of his career, initial impressions die hard.
I think Messam took a lot of shit because he was a Chief too ... If he'd played for the Crusaders, then everybody would have thought he was undoubtedly ready after being part of the structure there. If part of the Blues would have been the next multi talented brown boy who just "needs to be in the AB environment" to iron out his few issues. Canes then a "flair" player who has "x factor" and from the Clan - well ... good southern boy who never takes a backward step.
Reality is that Messam has never let anybody down - you can argue the 2014 match all you want, but that incident was bullshit, and a clear target by a Safa TV producer to get a victory - nothing more.
He's a legendary Chief, the best ambassador for the brand that has been, and he carries huge mana in front of any young player in both an on the field and off the field capacity. At AB level, I never had nerves when he was starting and he always held his own - you want to see leadership in action, you watch him with Cruden for that last kick to win the match vs Ireland in 2013. He was there, he took to ball to give to Cruden, and he stood closer to him than anybody else, so that regardless, he was going to be the first person with him after the kick -hit or miss. Where were all the members of the often-famed AB leadership group at that point?
He deserves every plaudit he gets, and he's an absolute hero to many fans of the latest generation of NZ rugby players. Not saying all criticism of his is underserved, not by a long stretch, nobody is above criticism. But undoubtedly he's up there with Toeava for the most heavily criticised players, and thats just not right.
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@MajorRage Messam was part of the leadership group in 2013 wasn't he?
I don't think you can criticise other players in the group in that situation. No point having the cast of thousands around him during that pressure moment. Messam was his Super captain and probably knew him better than most in the team so he saw it as appropriate.
I'm sure all the other players would've been there to support him had he missed just as they all congratulated him after he slotted it.
Messam has always been one of my favourites since he first started. Early on in the 7s he showed huge promise with the physicality of a loosie and the skills of a back. Really matured his game and turned into a real workhorse akin to what Rodders did.
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Sat at home watching 3 kiwi teams in a row and by christ it's a sad state of affairs hoping that the frickin force are going to provide a game that's not over by halftime...
#thissuperrugbyproductsucks
@Siam said in Force v Chiefs:
Sat at home watching 3 kiwi teams in a row and by christ it's a sad state of affairs hoping that the frickin force are going to provide a game that's not over by halftime...
#thissuperrugbyproductsucks
Yep, it was funny at first but it's not good for the interest in the game for us to be winning like this all the time.
If the money goes, so will most of our players. We need strong opposition, cutting SA and Oz teams will be a good start to increase the strength of teams. Aussie might need to drop two.
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Barrett shmarrett on ya Crudes
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Couple of minutes behind. What's the deal with Lowe and these bullshit dunk passes?
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Couple of minutes behind. What's the deal with Lowe and these bullshit dunk passes?
@Rancid-Schnitzel Been doing that all season, - sometimes they work sometimes not
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Couple of minutes behind. What's the deal with Lowe and these bullshit dunk passes?
@Rancid-Schnitzel poor options. I know we love to push it when we bust them open but jeez sometimes I wish we would just try another phase
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That's fucked. Between that and the bullshit taking out in the air penalty in the crusaders game, this game is legislating itself in to bullshit territory.
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Couple of minutes behind. What's the deal with Lowe and these bullshit dunk passes?
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Force v Chiefs:
Couple of minutes behind. What's the deal with Lowe and these bullshit dunk passes?
He represented New Zealand Under-15s at basketball, so that's not really a surprise.
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This is a terrible game. Both teams and the ref pretty much suck
