Foe Cross Fit Fans
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I see where you have gotten confused, it's with my second quote. If you read that in context (with the previous posts too) you'll see that I was describing how the WODs were open to interpretation. In this case if they write pullups, you you have a choice about how you perform them; deadhang, kipping, mixed grip, they are even relaxed enough to let you do chins.<br />
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They assume you'll do kipping because it's more efficient than deadhangs. You've interpreted that to mean the pull-up term is interchangeable, that and how I summarised by WODs. It's up to the person what they want to get out of the workout. The point of certain types of xFit workouts is to maintain intensity, so if you are taking a minute off between reps of ten to get to 50 pullups, you are not maintaining any sort of intensity. If you can do 50 deadhangs in a row, knock yourself out.<br />
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It's the same with something like the clean, if they write clean you can power or squat clean. If they write squat clean, that's how you have to do it. Same with the workouts that prescribe deadhang pullups.<br />
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[size=4]By the way, anybody that thinks these are a cheat exercise clearly hasn't done one, they are actually pretty difficult. I watch new guys come through the classes that can do deadhangs, but struggle to do sets of kipping pullups. It's because it's a skill, training for a different purpose.[/size]<br />
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[size=4]Both are pullups. Not sure why it's so confusing (the term existed before xFit, and nobody accused [/size]gymnasts[size=4] of "cheating").[/size] -
[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359868513' post='341412']They assume you'll do kipping because it's more efficient than deadhangs. [/quote]<br />
Yes crossfit introduces the confusion<br />
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[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359868513' post='341412']You've interpreted that to mean the pull-up term is interchangeable, that and how I summarised by WODs. It's up to the person what they want to get out of the workout. The point of certain types of xFit workouts is to maintain intensity, so if you are taking a minute off between reps of ten to get to 50 pullups, you are not maintaining any sort of intensity. If you can do 50 deadhangs in a row, knock yourself out.[/quote]<br />
That is using the term interchangeably. You can complete it by doing pull ups or a cheat variation. It's assumed you'll do the cheat, but they'll still label it by the traditional exercises name.<br />
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Earlier in the thread you even said the two movements shouldn't be compared because they are so different. Now you are defending using the name of the real exercise interchangeably with the cheat variation.<br />
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[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359868513' post='341412']Both are pullups. Not sure why it's so confusing (the term existed before xFit, and nobody accused gymnasts of "cheating")[/quote]<br />
Cheating is a standard term. The kipping pull up is a cheat variation of the exercise. You even said yourself that the purpose of the variation is to make the movement easier<br />
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Just to be clear there is nothing wrong with the movement if thats what you want to do. It just skips most of the Lat portion of the exercise.<br />
However the mis-labelling common in crossfit does overstate peoples abilities. -
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Did you pat yourself on the back every time you wrote cheat? #rolleyes<br />
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Who is confused by the way? CrossFitters know what we are doing, and someone training their lats in the gym knows what they are doing. Don't see much confusion there myself. <br />
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Well except maybe your confusion about being able to pick what pull-up technique you want in a xFit workout.
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[quote name='Red Beard' timestamp='1359869050' post='341414']<br />
I think I get it now!<br />
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Back to the original vid. The chick looked like she was having some kind of seizure when doing the kipping handstand push ups.<br />
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Her technique for those are terrible. It's a hard one to get right though, you should have your lower back against the wall, tuck your legs and explode out and up the wall. Her lack of shoulder strength for those was making it difficult to get into the right start position. <br />
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Same thing that stopped her getting that last Jerk at the higher weight. -
[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359871063' post='341424']<br />
Her technique for those are terrible. It's a hard one to get right though, you should have your lower back against the wall, tuck your legs and explode out and up the wall. H[b]er lack of shoulder strength for those was making it difficult to get into the right start position.<br />
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Same thing that stopped her getting that last Jerk at the higher weight.[/b]<br />
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But all of that was probably fatigue from all the shit she'd done earlier ? -
[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359871063' post='341424']<br />
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Her technique for those are terrible. It's a hard one to get right though, you should have your lower back against the wall, tuck your legs and explode out and up the wall. Her lack of shoulder strength for those was making it difficult to get into the right start position. <br />
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Same thing that stopped her getting that last Jerk at the higher weight.<br />
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Are handstand push ups a good exercise mate? Are they a viable alternative to say military presses? I know they're bloody tough. -
[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359870898' post='341423']<br />
Did you pat yourself on the back every time you wrote cheat?<br />
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Cheat is a standard exercise term. Kipping is a cheat variation of traditional pull ups. Just like assisted pull ups are, or jumping to just do the negative etc etc<br />
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[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359870898' post='341423']Who is confused by the way? CrossFitters know what we are doing, and someone training their lats in the gym knows what they are doing. Don't see much confusion there myself.<br />
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Well except maybe your confusion about being able to pick what pull-up technique you want in a xFit workout.[/quote]<br />
I don't understand whats so difficult to understand that the two exercises are different. Therefore you shouldn't use the term interchangeably<br />
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If you did 150 lady push ups on your knees, that's very different from doing 150 real push ups. Push ups is the name for the traditional strict movement. The cheat movement is also a push up but for clarity it should be stated that you did an easier variation. -
[quote name='Red Beard' timestamp='1359872158' post='341430']<br />
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Are handstand push ups a good exercise mate? Are they a viable alternative to say military presses? I know they're bloody tough.<br />
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They are easier than a press (even when done strict). I can press 70kg x 1, but I can do 10/11 handstand push-ups and I weigh around 81kg. <br />
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Works your core as well, and it's something different. Can do it at home too. -
wouldnt get as deep in the handstand push ups though would you, with the old noggin getting in the way, so movement is somewhat limited I'd of thought?
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[quote name='Duluth' timestamp='1359872389' post='341431']<br />
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Cheat is a standard exercise term. Kipping is a cheat variation of traditional pull ups. Just like assisted pull ups are, or jumping to just do the negative etc etc<br />
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I don't understand whats so difficult to understand that the two exercises are different. Therefore you shouldn't use the term interchangeably<br />
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If you did 150 lady push ups on your knees, that's very different from doing 150 real push ups. Push ups is the name for the traditional strict movement. The cheat movement is also a push up but for clarity it should be stated that you did an easier variation.<br />
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Again, who is confused? <br />
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Push-ups is a bad example as well, plenty of variations on those too - all push-ups. Remember, you started off saying that kipping pull-ups weren't even pull-ups, which is just wrong. -
[quote name='taniwharugby' timestamp='1359872647' post='341433']<br />
wouldnt get as deep in the handstand push ups though would you, with the old noggin getting in the way, so movement is somewhat limited I'd of thought?<br />
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True. Although I did see the crazy workouts in the Games set up plates for your hands so your head could go lower. Bugger that <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/rugby/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> -
ah now that would make it tough I reckon!<br />
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I do like alot of the variations that Crossfit employs, that said, I do know they are slightly different, and still use stricter forms in most of my workouts...I dont really have anywhere to do proper pull ups or the kipping ones (assume these are the ones where you use momentum to get up) and TBPH, I suck at pull ups, so is easier for me to do assisted ones to target my lats, keep form and do lots! -
[quote name='taniwharugby' timestamp='1359873067' post='341436']<br />
ah now that would make it tough I reckon!<br />
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I do like alot of the variations that Crossfit employs, that said, I do know they are slightly different, and still use stricter forms in most of my workouts...I dont really have anywhere to do proper pull ups or the kipping ones (assume these are the ones where you use momentum to get up) and TBPH, I suck at pull ups, so is easier for me to do assisted ones to target my lats, keep form and do lots!<br />
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Just make sure you don't call them pull-ups otherwise you'll get a tedious lecture. -
[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359872769' post='341434']Again, who is confused?[/quote]<br />
I get that its a convention in crossfit to use the term loosely. That doesn't make it correct. Saying you did x number of pullups means something to the rest of the fitness world. That is very different from saying I did x number of kipping pullups<br />
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You said yourself that the variation is easier. By omitting that you did a cheat variation it's at best inaccurate<br />
[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359872769' post='341434']Push-ups is a bad example as well, plenty of variations on those too - all push-ups. [/quote]<br />
I said that in my post. Thats exactly why I used that example -
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[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359872402' post='341432']<br />
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They are easier than a press (even when done strict). I can press 70kg x 1, but I can do 10/11 handstand push-ups and I weigh around 81kg. <br />
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Works your core as well, and it's something different. Can do it at home too.[/quote]<br />
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There's no way handstand pushups are easier than press. Wait, are we talking about handstand pushups or "kipping"? -
After reading the debate between Duluth and Kirwan, I'd have to say both are correct.<br />
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In crossfit, you do push ups, but its up to you what variation you do (proper or variation, whatever you need to do to get it done)<br />
However, while writing up what exercises I did, I wouldnt say I did 50 push ups, because that would be misleading.. I would be more specific.. (which is what Duluth is getting at)<br />
30 diamond push ups + 20 push ups..<br />
Which is very different to 20 push ups + 15 snake push ups + 15 lady push ups<br />
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That would clear up the confusion.. (not from training, but from people who brag about how many push ups they did when really is was girls ones.. similar to people who say they can squat 200kgs when they don't even get to parallel)<br />
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My mate running the session said that most people do the harder exercise first and if they get tired they do the easier exercise, and so forth until they get to lady push ups..<br />
A lot of them are obsessed with how quick they do it, so form isn't really factor.
