Blues v Chiefs
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@crucial said in Blues v Chiefs:
@hydro11 said in Blues v Chiefs:
@crucial said in Blues v Chiefs:
I sometimes wonder how much sport some guys here have actually played or coached and understand how difficult it is to break losing streaks and how much experience in winning leadership counts when things aren't going your way.
It is easier to find ways to win when you know where to look for them.Watch that early spell in the second half and watch Messam. He stepped up big in both play and leadership for a burst and made a big difference.
Pulu is captain because he has the respect of the players but he is still to establish onfield mana. He has no one backing him up though.
It's funny to watch you make excuses for Umaga and Kirwan yet didn't you basically stop supporting the Hurricanes because of Hammett? Hammett actually got close to making the playoffs one year and he was a very average coach. It's just hard to see you ever reaching the point where you say "Umaga is doing a bad job". I don't recall exactly but I don't think you ever got there with Kirwan.
Tana is in his third season and he still has not been able to produce a team which can get over the line in a tight NZ derby. NZ derbies are half of his team's games. I'm not Tana out but he's running out of time. If he was sacked he would only have himself to blame. Huge talent pool, some of the best young New Zealand rugby players and looking like three years without playoffs. Plenty of coaches are sacked for less.
I stopped supporting the Canes because I no longer felt engaged with them. Part of that was Hammett's shit-ness but mostly it was because he alienated the supporters, changed the style of play away from the traditional Canes style (which is back now) and made me not really bothered to watch them especially as due to the NPC changes the players and team I really followed (CM) were now a proper part of the Chiefs.
My point with the Blues hasn't wavered. Replacing the coach was never going to be the fix you all want. Some of the rot in Blues rugby has been repaired and some of the replaced coaches have gone on to prove their credentials elsewhere.
At the moment the big difficulty is finding how to get that tiny bit of the puzzle in place when carrying an injury roster. You mention a huge talent pool? Who is missing that was readily available? A part of the Auckland rugby problem is that they don't breed leaders and they don't breed team players. They breed big skilled individuals that have to be taught from scratch how to fit into gameplans that don't involve 'give him the ball'. Hence the lack of decent 10s.nail on head with auckland rugby problem - if you ever have a chance talk to foxy about it - plenty of people are working on the issue - which is basically the school comp in Auckland - the teams buy in tthe biggest fastest blokes they can find to run over the top of people.. and it works in school footy.
go to next level when everyones the same size etc and you get a bunch of individuals who don't know any better no idea about creating space etc etc.. sound like a team you know?
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@chris-b said in Blues v Chiefs:
M"tH"H - undefeated in 2018!!!
The Hammettuer is the assistant, he's riding on Mauger's coat tails. You have to give the Highlanders credit, they had an opportunity to promote from in but instead went for an ex turnstile back who has never coached in NZ over him.
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@williethewaiter Also, it's not like Auckland school teams completely dominate the top 4 so it's not even certain that going for size is the way to go.
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@nepia said in Blues v Chiefs:
@williethewaiter Also, it's not like Auckland school teams completely dominate the top 4 so it's not even certain that going for size is the way to go.
yep but thats the mentality right - how's that gonna change!!
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It could be the best short-term solution, but the problem I have with that is SBW looks about as fast as Moala and has less experience making defensive decisions out there. I think he is the one who should be the constant selection - at 12.
Another option is getting the younger player to 13, but I don’t know Faiane at all and I don’t even remember him handling the ball tonight.
If he’s fit, I’d get Clarke out there pronto, so at least Tana is getting the young ones experience. I didn’t think that Rieko was ready...
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@nepia said in Blues v Chiefs:
@chris-b said in Blues v Chiefs:
@hydro11 said in Blues v Chiefs:
@crucial said in Blues v Chiefs:
It's funny to watch you make excuses for Umaga and Kirwan yet didn't you basically stop supporting the Hurricanes because of Hammett? Hammett actually got close to making the playoffs one year and he was a very average coach.
What???!!!
Hammer recognized that sometimes you've got to deconstruct the machine, to build something better. Canes woulda had two titles if they'd hung on to him.
p.s. Start passing around the hat to hire (the Kings of) Leon. Needs a very big cheque to tempt him away from his homeland, but he's worth it.
Comedy gold, although I guess you could say going through years of pain with the Hammettuer toughened the Canes up and with an actual coach they finally won one.
@hydro11 There's a bit of a difference.
The Canes had one bad year before the Hammettuer started, previous to that they were regular semi finalists (in the Cooper years) in a competition so hard only four teams had won it.
The Blues have been shit under every coach since the current Chiefs coach was coaching the Canes to semi finals. They also, tonight aside, have had the worst cattle on paper whereas the Hammettuer took over a star studded team (and promptly dismantled it). Also, the Blues don't really have a 'huge talent pool' under the direct contracting system.But, as I said before the season started, if Tana doesn't get success this year (however it is defined by Blues fans) then fair enough, sack him, three years is enough to show improvement.
Also as @Crucial notes there was stuff going that made it unpalatable to be a Canes fan (especially if you're from a marginalised province with more of your players starring for other franchises) and the organisation lost a lot of fans (not just Crucial and I on here) during that time.
If you look at the star studded players that Hammett got rid of, most of them were over the hill or getting that way. Nonu had a good 2012 IIRC but was terrible in 2013 and 2014. Hore did nothing since leaving the Hurricanes, ditto Weepu.
My point is just that if Hammett deserved to be sacked, then Tana has to be going the same way. You can make similar criticisms about Wellington rugby that you can about Auckland rugby. All razzle dazzle and not enough nous.
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@hydro11 said in Blues v Chiefs:
@nepia said in Blues v Chiefs:
@chris-b said in Blues v Chiefs:
@hydro11 said in Blues v Chiefs:
@crucial said in Blues v Chiefs:
It's funny to watch you make excuses for Umaga and Kirwan yet didn't you basically stop supporting the Hurricanes because of Hammett? Hammett actually got close to making the playoffs one year and he was a very average coach.
What???!!!
Hammer recognized that sometimes you've got to deconstruct the machine, to build something better. Canes woulda had two titles if they'd hung on to him.
p.s. Start passing around the hat to hire (the Kings of) Leon. Needs a very big cheque to tempt him away from his homeland, but he's worth it.
Comedy gold, although I guess you could say going through years of pain with the Hammettuer toughened the Canes up and with an actual coach they finally won one.
@hydro11 There's a bit of a difference.
The Canes had one bad year before the Hammettuer started, previous to that they were regular semi finalists (in the Cooper years) in a competition so hard only four teams had won it.
The Blues have been shit under every coach since the current Chiefs coach was coaching the Canes to semi finals. They also, tonight aside, have had the worst cattle on paper whereas the Hammettuer took over a star studded team (and promptly dismantled it). Also, the Blues don't really have a 'huge talent pool' under the direct contracting system.But, as I said before the season started, if Tana doesn't get success this year (however it is defined by Blues fans) then fair enough, sack him, three years is enough to show improvement.
Also as @Crucial notes there was stuff going that made it unpalatable to be a Canes fan (especially if you're from a marginalised province with more of your players starring for other franchises) and the organisation lost a lot of fans (not just Crucial and I on here) during that time.
If you look at the star studded players that Hammett got rid of, most of them were over the hill or getting that way. Nonu had a good 2012 IIRC but was terrible in 2013 and 2014. Hore did nothing since leaving the Hurricanes, ditto Weepu.
My point is just that if Hammett deserved to be sacked, then Tana has to be going the same way. You can make similar criticisms about Wellington rugby that you can about Auckland rugby. All razzle dazzle and not enough nous.
Hammett didn't get sacked, he went a year past his three year plan and was not in danger of being sacked at any time.
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@tim said in Blues v Chiefs:
Very average rugby. Poor handling, awful defence, tentative tacklers and counter attacking, constant fast ruck ball that seemed unearned.
Still better than the Aussie derbies
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It's an old story and not worth revisiting but Hammett deserved sacking as he alienated supporters, took the team backwards, changed the playing style to one akin to the hated foe and didn't get results.
T is also not getting results but he has made improvements and is at least trying to make a dysfunctional team functional.
The Blues players are the biggest culprits and it isn't as if these days the Rennie rebuild option is available. With extended Super squads there simply aren't quality unrecognised players floating around. You have to build with the product you can get and not many players of quality want to hop on a losing team.
Maybe T knows that Pulu isn't his best halfback, but they others don't demand the spot either, they are simply other options. What T does know is that Pulu is a tough character that has the respect of the squad and will do things to try and lead from the front. Who else is doing that? He shows the way in defence, puts his body on the line and fights hard for opportunities. I guess that is seen as making up for the odd error. -
Some good moments in that game but some really poor ones. The defensive errors especially. Perhaps it’s lack of combinations? The Blues tactics in attack seemed a little predictable to me.
Cane a standout. Looks bigger to me. Wainui’s best super rugby game ever.
If tonight was a bit of an audition for the 3rd AB halfback, Weber won easily. Pulu seems to lack composure. Perhaps the captaincy is weighing on him.
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@act-crusader said in Blues v Chiefs:
Some good moments in that game but some really poor ones. The defensive errors especially. Perhaps it’s lack of combinations? The Blues tactics in attack seemed a little predictable to me.
Cane a standout. Looks bigger to me. Wainui’s best super rugby game ever.
If tonight was a bit of an audition for the 3rd AB halfback, Weber won easily. Pulu seems to lack composure. Perhaps the captaincy is weighing on him.
Agreed, and the 12 for the Chiefs who we've been bagging along with Wainui had a decent game as well. Clearly, we need to double down on bagging poor performing players in the lead up to matches.
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The funny thing about watching that game live , particularly the last 10 minutes , it felt like you had seen it before and were watching a replay .
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Reckon the next AB 6 might be Matt Duffie - hits hard on defence and clears out rucks...
And what is Mike from Breaking Bad doing as the Blues defence coach?
Fair play to the Chiefs - thought McKenzie closed out the game well, whereas the Blues looked like they lacked a plan.
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@pukunui said in Blues v Chiefs:
Worst of all for me would be Moala. His hungus cost the Blues so many chances. The Blues are going nowhere with him in midfield. Passing seems to be about 10th on his list of options when he gets the ball.
Yeah, he's diabolical in the midfield. Just can't seem to work out any option other than charge. I can't believe I was quite a fan a couple of seasons back.
