Blues vs Stormers
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That wasn’t even his best tackle of the night, he was murdering people out there. Great to see him using his bulk.
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@nzzp said in Blues vs Stormers:
@pakman said in Blues vs Stormers:
@taniwharugby said in Blues vs Stormers:
@KiwiMurph is an automatic visit to the headmasters office...guess it depends if World Rugby intervene to quash the card....wont hold my breath
It OUGHT to be taken into account that Stormer lifted his knees very high, meaning that if he made ANY contact he was going to tumble. Reckless. Further sanction not justified.
All this is what we want the laws to be, not what they are. The interpretation is very clear; what Telea did was clumsy and/or reckless, but intent doesn't matter. Telea's options were to pull out early and tackle the player when they hit the ground, or go up and contest.
What you are not allowed to do is to run into that zone on the ground, which is what he did. As soon as you do that, and contact the player, it's always a yellow/red.
Whilst I think you capture the current 'official' thinking, it must be the fact that in some cases an oncoming player's trajectory will be unpredictably horizontal, as opposed to vertical, and if the distance is large between takeoff and landing, and the approach rapid, an opposition player could readily be (and sometimes is) unable to avoid the oncoming player short of diving out of the way. In such an instance, if he can't dive away in time his only option would appear to be to try and catch the player!!
I'd have to watch the incident again, but I'm not sure the 'official' options were feasible on this occasion.
@pakman said in Blues vs Stormers:
@nzzp said in Blues vs Stormers:
@pakman said in Blues vs Stormers:
@taniwharugby said in Blues vs Stormers:
@KiwiMurph is an automatic visit to the headmasters office...guess it depends if World Rugby intervene to quash the card....wont hold my breath
It OUGHT to be taken into account that Stormer lifted his knees very high, meaning that if he made ANY contact he was going to tumble. Reckless. Further sanction not justified.
All this is what we want the laws to be, not what they are. The interpretation is very clear; what Telea did was clumsy and/or reckless, but intent doesn't matter. Telea's options were to pull out early and tackle the player when they hit the ground, or go up and contest.
What you are not allowed to do is to run into that zone on the ground, which is what he did. As soon as you do that, and contact the player, it's always a yellow/red.
Whilst I think you capture the current 'official' thinking, it must be the fact that in some cases an oncoming player's trajectory will be unpredictably horizontal, as opposed to vertical, and if the distance is large between takeoff and landing, and the approach rapid, an opposition player could readily be (and sometimes is) unable to avoid the oncoming player short of diving out of the way. In such an instance, if he can't dive away in time his only option would appear to be to try and catch the player!!
I'd have to watch the incident again, but I'm not sure the 'official' options were feasible on this occasion.
What? That makes no sense. The other logical option you seem to be missing in your scenario is to not come rushing in out of control and oblivious to your surroundings.
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@pakman was only one outcome...
That said, seems eerily similar...
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SANZAAR NEWS RELEASE
Tanielu Tele'a suspended for 4 weeks
The SANZAAR Foul Play Review Committee has accepted a guilty plea from Tanielu Tele'a of the Blues for contravening Law 9.17: A player must not tackle, charge, pull, push or grasp an opponent whose feet are off the ground, after he was Red Carded during a Super Rugby Match at the Weekend.
Tele'a has been suspended from all forms of the game for 4 weeks, up to and including 4 May 2019.
The incident occurred in the 69th minute of the match between the Blues and Stormers played at Eden Park in Auckland on 30 March 2019.
The SANZAAR Foul Play Review Committee of Adam Casselden SC (Chairman), Stefan Terblanche and Eroni Clarke assessed the case.
In his finding, Foul Play Review Committee Chairman Adam Casselden SC ruled the following:
"Having conducted a detailed review of all the available evidence, including all camera angles and additional evidence, including from the player and submissions from his legal representative, Aaron Lloyd, the Foul Play Review Committee upheld the Red Card under Law 9.17."
"With respect to sanction the Foul Play Review Committee deemed the act of foul play merited a mid-range entry point of 8 weeks due to the reckless actions of the Player placing his vulnerable opponent in an extremely dangerous position with the potential to cause significant injury. However, taking into account mitigating factors including the Player's good Judicial record and the fact the Player has pleaded guilty at the first available opportunity, the Foul Play Review Committee reduced the suspension to 4 weeks."
"The player is therefore suspended for 4 weeks, up to and including 4 May 2019.”
All SANZAAR disciplinary matters are in the first instance referred to the Foul Play Review Committee to provide the option of expediting the judicial process.
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@Tim said in Blues vs Stormers:
https://giant.gfycat.com/NeighboringFearfulBedlingtonterrier.webm
But SBW is ... lazy ... useless... over hyped ...
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About the Red Card.
I understand the current rules/regs/laws.
I just think they are wrong.
Telea went looking to catch the ball. Realised the opposition was in the air and tried to pull out.
I find it hard to believe that was even a card let alone four weeks.
Who created the issue? Leyds jumping into space.
Not sure they have this issue correct yet.
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@pakman said in Blues vs Stormers:
@nzzp said in Blues vs Stormers:
@pakman said in Blues vs Stormers:
@taniwharugby said in Blues vs Stormers:
@KiwiMurph is an automatic visit to the headmasters office...guess it depends if World Rugby intervene to quash the card....wont hold my breath
It OUGHT to be taken into account that Stormer lifted his knees very high, meaning that if he made ANY contact he was going to tumble. Reckless. Further sanction not justified.
All this is what we want the laws to be, not what they are. The interpretation is very clear; what Telea did was clumsy and/or reckless, but intent doesn't matter. Telea's options were to pull out early and tackle the player when they hit the ground, or go up and contest.
What you are not allowed to do is to run into that zone on the ground, which is what he did. As soon as you do that, and contact the player, it's always a yellow/red.
Whilst I think you capture the current 'official' thinking, it must be the fact that in some cases an oncoming player's trajectory will be unpredictably horizontal, as opposed to vertical, and if the distance is large between takeoff and landing, and the approach rapid, an opposition player could readily be (and sometimes is) unable to avoid the oncoming player short of diving out of the way. In such an instance, if he can't dive away in time his only option would appear to be to try and catch the player!!
I'd have to watch the incident again, but I'm not sure the 'official' options were feasible on this occasion.
What? That makes no sense. The other logical option you seem to be missing in your scenario is to not come rushing in out of control and oblivious to your surroundings.
@Bones said in Blues vs Stormers:
@pakman said in Blues vs Stormers:
@nzzp said in Blues vs Stormers:
@pakman said in Blues vs Stormers:
@taniwharugby said in Blues vs Stormers:
@KiwiMurph is an automatic visit to the headmasters office...guess it depends if World Rugby intervene to quash the card....wont hold my breath
It OUGHT to be taken into account that Stormer lifted his knees very high, meaning that if he made ANY contact he was going to tumble. Reckless. Further sanction not justified.
All this is what we want the laws to be, not what they are. The interpretation is very clear; what Telea did was clumsy and/or reckless, but intent doesn't matter. Telea's options were to pull out early and tackle the player when they hit the ground, or go up and contest.
What you are not allowed to do is to run into that zone on the ground, which is what he did. As soon as you do that, and contact the player, it's always a yellow/red.
Whilst I think you capture the current 'official' thinking, it must be the fact that in some cases an oncoming player's trajectory will be unpredictably horizontal, as opposed to vertical, and if the distance is large between takeoff and landing, and the approach rapid, an opposition player could readily be (and sometimes is) unable to avoid the oncoming player short of diving out of the way. In such an instance, if he can't dive away in time his only option would appear to be to try and catch the player!!
I'd have to watch the incident again, but I'm not sure the 'official' options were feasible on this occasion.
What? That makes no sense. The other logical option you seem to be missing in your scenario is to not come rushing in out of control and oblivious to your surroundings.
As much as I hate some of the unfair rulings with players in the air, with this one you are quite correct. Telea entered the 'zone' without being aware until too late AND had time (although not much) to try and mitigate his error.
The example with BB posted above is one of the ones I don't like. Both players entered the 'zone' where the ball was coming down on their feet but BB jumped high only a metre away from the other player. He should have some responsibility for his own safety and not try and leap over someone at the last moment.It's a really difficult one to find a ruling that is both fair and clear for refs and I guess what we have is what we have where it basically expects players to put themselves in the air or keep well away.
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About the Red Card.
I understand the current rules/regs/laws.
I just think they are wrong.
Telea went looking to catch the ball. Realised the opposition was in the air and tried to pull out.
I find it hard to believe that was even a card let alone four weeks.
Who created the issue? Leyds jumping into space.
Not sure they have this issue correct yet.
@booboo said in Blues vs Stormers:
About the Red Card.
I understand the current rules/regs/laws.
I just think they are wrong.
Telea went looking to catch the ball. Realised the opposition was in the air and tried to pull out.
I find it hard to believe that was even a card let alone four weeks.
Who created the issue? Leyds jumping into space.
Not sure they have this issue correct yet.
This is lazy. So you're saying if Tele'a hadn't been there, Leyds would still have gone arse over tit?
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@booboo said in Blues vs Stormers:
About the Red Card.
I understand the current rules/regs/laws.
I just think they are wrong.
Telea went looking to catch the ball. Realised the opposition was in the air and tried to pull out.
I find it hard to believe that was even a card let alone four weeks.
Who created the issue? Leyds jumping into space.
Not sure they have this issue correct yet.
This is lazy. So you're saying if Tele'a hadn't been there, Leyds would still have gone arse over tit?
@Bones no.
I'm saying Telea was looking at the ball thinking he was in a position to catch it until he looked up and saw Leyds had beaten him in the air and then he tried to pull out.
It's not lazy.
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@Bones no.
I'm saying Telea was looking at the ball thinking he was in a position to catch it until he looked up and saw Leyds had beaten him in the air and then he tried to pull out.
It's not lazy.
@booboo said in Blues vs Stormers:
@Bones no.
I'm saying Telea was looking at the ball thinking he was in a position to catch it until he looked up and saw Leyds had beaten him in the air and then he tried to pull out.
It's not lazy.
Right, so players can do as they wish now with the defence of "but I was looking at the ball"? Tele'a should have been more aware shouldn't he, rather than thinking that the ball is the only thing to worry about.
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@booboo said in Blues vs Stormers:
@Bones no.
I'm saying Telea was looking at the ball thinking he was in a position to catch it until he looked up and saw Leyds had beaten him in the air and then he tried to pull out.
It's not lazy.
Right, so players can do as they wish now with the defence of "but I was looking at the ball"? Tele'a should have been more aware shouldn't he, rather than thinking that the ball is the only thing to worry about.
@Bones said in Blues vs Stormers:
@booboo said in Blues vs Stormers:
@Bones no.
I'm saying Telea was looking at the ball thinking he was in a position to catch it until he looked up and saw Leyds had beaten him in the air and then he tried to pull out.
It's not lazy.
Right, so players can do as they wish now with the defence of "but I was looking at the ball"? Tele'a should have been more aware shouldn't he, rather than thinking that the ball is the only thing to worry about.
Isn’t that exactly what Leyds was doing? Only worrying about the ball, not the contact he was potentially putting himself into?
I don’t think the balance is right at the moment. Fucked if i know the answer though. No jumping? Everyone must jump? No jumping forward while running? Catcher with both feet on the ground has right of way? No of them ideal but neither is red carding a guy could have caught the ball if it wasn’t for another guy flying at his head.
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@Bones said in Blues vs Stormers:
@booboo said in Blues vs Stormers:
@Bones no.
I'm saying Telea was looking at the ball thinking he was in a position to catch it until he looked up and saw Leyds had beaten him in the air and then he tried to pull out.
It's not lazy.
Right, so players can do as they wish now with the defence of "but I was looking at the ball"? Tele'a should have been more aware shouldn't he, rather than thinking that the ball is the only thing to worry about.
Isn’t that exactly what Leyds was doing? Only worrying about the ball, not the contact he was potentially putting himself into?
I don’t think the balance is right at the moment. Fucked if i know the answer though. No jumping? Everyone must jump? No jumping forward while running? Catcher with both feet on the ground has right of way? No of them ideal but neither is red carding a guy could have caught the ball if it wasn’t for another guy flying at his head.
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I want to see a player race at the ball and come to a complete stop ready to catch the ball only to be taken out by a player flying through the air. And the jumping player suspended for weeks.
