RWC Final: England v Springboks
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@Greener that post is up there with so called female room service serving dodgy food in a fancy South African hotel...
Welcome aboard.
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:
@Greener that post is up there with so called female room service serving dodgy food in a fancy South African hotel...
Welcome aboard.
Urn of tea at a buffet apparently. Don't think there is any doubt they were sick - deliberately poisoned is another matter. They even had a meeting in Colin Meads room as he couldn't get up.
Mains reckoned it was London bookies (if it was deliberate) not anyone involved in SA rugby anyway.
*"Referee Ed Morrison has few clues about the All Blacks drama. He wonders why Steve McDowall is sweating profusely after a few scrums and then watches Jeff Wilson being sick but it is only after the test, in conversation with Mains, he discovers the situation.
"Credit to Sean Fitzpatrick he never mentioned it or made any excuses or brought it to my attention and I will always be grateful for that," Morrison recalls."*
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@ACT-Crusader said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:
@Greener that post is up there with so called female room service serving dodgy food in a fancy South African hotel...
Welcome aboard.
Urn of tea at a buffet apparently. Don't think there is any doubt they were sick - deliberately poisoned is another matter. They even had a meeting in Colin Meads room as he couldn't get up.
Mains reckoned it was London bookies (if it was deliberate) not anyone involved in SA rugby anyway.
*"Referee Ed Morrison has few clues about the All Blacks drama. He wonders why Steve McDowall is sweating profusely after a few scrums and then watches Jeff Wilson being sick but it is only after the test, in conversation with Mains, he discovers the situation.
"Credit to Sean Fitzpatrick he never mentioned it or made any excuses or brought it to my attention and I will always be grateful for that," Morrison recalls."*
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@Snowy There was provision for a day postponement in this exact case, they were muppets for trying to tough it out/hide it
@Machpants said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:
@Snowy There was provision for a day postponement in this exact case, they were muppets for trying to tough it out/hide it
Yeah, I recall there was "reserve" day for unforeseen circumstances and I agree, dumb not to use it.
I quoted Ed Morrison above as he was pretty much the only independent observer (other than the millions watching Wilson throw up) as they had hidden the whole thing.
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@Machpants said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:
@Snowy There was provision for a day postponement in this exact case, they were muppets for trying to tough it out/hide it
Yeah, I recall there was "reserve" day for unforeseen circumstances and I agree, dumb not to use it.
I quoted Ed Morrison above as he was pretty much the only independent observer (other than the millions watching Wilson throw up) as they had hidden the whole thing.
@Snowy said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:
@Machpants said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:
@Snowy There was provision for a day postponement in this exact case, they were muppets for trying to tough it out/hide it
Yeah, I recall there was "reserve" day for unforeseen circumstances and I agree, dumb not to use it.
I quoted Ed Morrison above as he was pretty much the only independent observer (other than the millions watching Wilson throw up) as they had hidden the whole thing.
I recall in the 1999 semi Boks against Australia, Tim Horan was as sick as a dog. Could barely get out of bed in the morning. Still got MOTM in that game.
Your blokes were just soft in '95 Snowy :face_with_stuck-out_tongue_winking_eye:
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@Snowy said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:
@Machpants said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:
@Snowy There was provision for a day postponement in this exact case, they were muppets for trying to tough it out/hide it
Yeah, I recall there was "reserve" day for unforeseen circumstances and I agree, dumb not to use it.
I quoted Ed Morrison above as he was pretty much the only independent observer (other than the millions watching Wilson throw up) as they had hidden the whole thing.
I recall in the 1999 semi Boks against Australia, Tim Horan was as sick as a dog. Could barely get out of bed in the morning. Still got MOTM in that game.
Your blokes were just soft in '95 Snowy :face_with_stuck-out_tongue_winking_eye:
@Billy-Webb said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:
Your blokes were just soft in '95 Snowy
Haha, doesn't say much about your guys either then, just scraping past a bunch of sick softies...
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@Billy-Webb said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:
@Greener
Thoroughly enjoyed reading that post. Great conspiracy theory. One which could just maybe grow some legs as time marches on
But like most conspiracy theories, I don't buy it.
Yes, agreed, a little "out there" for sure.What is now obvious to see and is being talked about a lot, and as much came from Rassie's own lips, is that they specifically targeted the scrums in the final, by investing in a 6/2 bench over 7 matches - a long game. It becomes a simple numbers game then, his forwards were freshers and had less to do over 7 weeks than those of any other team - and they counted that advantage in double digit percentages by the end. What is usually simply good player management in other teams, became a weapon in Rassie's. Rassie created a weapon from thin air, if you will. I'm under no illusion that they had stats on each opposing player, knowing exactly what each's workrate was, their total workload, their endurance before they came of their peak in a match - down to the very minute. And for sure the AB's took a heavy tax on those Eng. load numbers. Thank you very much. If Rassie's players could perform at 20%, 30%, 40% higher levels than the opposition and do so for longer stretches, then... well, then the final happens?
What gasted my flabber though, was how perfectly the Eng scrum was dissected. Even with the injury, one would have expected, if not insisted, the Eng scrum to remain a force to be reckoned with - even if just the first 40 before the long term investments came to the fore. I would have taken a bet of 100:1 before the game that Eng would remain solid in the first half even if they lose a prop. But clearly I would have lost the money. Some dark magic was involved here and a lot of homework, as they had their number from the get go. But they could last directly test their scrum theories in 2018 against Eng (4 times if I remember correctly)? If they somehow knew this would happen and the reaction of the ref - they would also have been able to predict a pretty good score: say, avg. ~10 scrums aside in a game, ~5 in the opposition's territory, 15 on the board. Simple knocks were being converted into points - and not as an exception, but as the rule for this particular game and for the Boks alone (bar the single exception to that rule - which then fell into my conspiracy basket).
Kudos on Eddie though, I would not have had the morals of the man and would have simply countered and negated Rassie's plans by playing uncontested scrums, and would have considered it a valid and viable option long before the break - and most likely have won in the process - and few, especially no English person, would have blamed me - and more than likely pinned two OBE's on me for being extra cunning. Eddie's reality was simple - he clearly may not have had the guns upfront to arm wrestle all day - but on average, his forwards were most likely more mobile. By hook or by crook, this never happened. Eddie was caught in the headlights of Rassie's strategy and frozen stiff - for Eng, never tried anything else in 80 mins.
@Greener said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:
@Billy-Webb said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:
@Greener
Thoroughly enjoyed reading that post. Great conspiracy theory. One which could just maybe grow some legs as time marches onBut like most conspiracy theories, I don't buy it.
Yes, agreed, a little "out there" for sure.What is now obvious to see and is being talked about a lot, and as much came from Rassie's own lips, is that they specifically targeted the scrums in the final, by investing in a 6/2 bench over 7 matches - a long game. It becomes a simple numbers game then, his forwards were freshers and had less to do over 7 weeks than those of any other team - and they counted that advantage in double digit percentages by the end. What is usually simply good player management in other teams, became a weapon in Rassie's. Rassie created a weapon from thin air, if you will. I'm under no illusion that they had stats on each opposing player, knowing exactly what each's workrate was, their total workload, their endurance before they came of their peak in a match - down to the very minute. And for sure the AB's took a heavy tax on those Eng. load numbers. Thank you very much. If Rassie's players could perform at 20%, 30%, 40% higher levels than the opposition and do so for longer stretches, then... well, then the final happens?
What gasted my flabber though, was how perfectly the Eng scrum was dissected. Even with the injury, one would have expected, if not insisted, the Eng scrum to remain a force to be reckoned with - even if just the first 40 before the long term investments came to the fore. I would have taken a bet of 100:1 before the game that Eng would remain solid in the first half even if they lose a prop. But clearly I would have lost the money. Some dark magic was involved here and a lot of homework, as they had their number from the get go. But they could last directly test their scrum theories in 2018 against Eng (4 times if I remember correctly)? If they somehow knew this would happen and the reaction of the ref - they would also have been able to predict a pretty good score: say, avg. ~10 scrums aside in a game, ~5 in the opposition's territory, 15 on the board. Simple knocks were being converted into points - and not as an exception, but as the rule for this particular game and for the Boks alone (bar the single exception to that rule - which then fell into my conspiracy basket).
Kudos on Eddie though, I would not have had the morals of the man and would have simply countered and negated Rassie's plans by playing uncontested scrums, and would have considered it a valid and viable option long before the break - and most likely have won in the process - and few, especially no English person, would have blamed me - and more than likely pinned two OBE's on me for being extra cunning. Eddie's reality was simple - he clearly may not have had the guns upfront to arm wrestle all day - but on average, his forwards were most likely more mobile. By hook or by crook, this never happened. Eddie was caught in the headlights of Rassie's strategy and frozen stiff - for Eng, never tried anything else in 80 mins.
it is a good theory, find out what the oppositions strong point is, the one thing that no-one would expect you to attack and then attack it - once it crumbles the one weapon they rely on has major ramifications throughout the rest of the set up
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@Billy-Webb said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:
Your blokes were just soft in '95 Snowy
Haha, doesn't say much about your guys either then, just scraping past a bunch of sick softies...
@Snowy said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:
@Billy-Webb said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:
Your blokes were just soft in '95 Snowy
Haha, doesn't say much about your guys either then, just scraping past a bunch of sick softies...
Touché sir!
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The plane landed in Ireland weeks ago but the whining of the engines can still be heard....
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The plane landed in Ireland weeks ago but the whining of the engines can still be heard....
@Crucial Neil Francis - his only job in life appears to be making Rattue look measured and insightful
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For those who didn't take not winning well...
Not sure I'd be too pleased if I saw Kieran Read doing this, but she looks happy!
@Chris-B said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:
For those who didn't take not winning well...
Not sure I'd be too pleased if I saw Kieran Read doing this, but she looks happy!
miss Nigeria is pretty hot
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Little something for NTA. In Today's UK Torygraph Saracens coach identifies that Kruis has much better technique than Itoje as TH lock, at that THs prefer Kruis to Itoje 'every time'. This despite Itoje having bigger squat. Referenced back to Pom scrum shoring up once Itoje moved to LH as Nick first identified.
Makes me think a bit of Patty T, although Blues scrum pretty good so far in 2020. -
Little something for NTA. In Today's UK Torygraph Saracens coach identifies that Kruis has much better technique than Itoje as TH lock, at that THs prefer Kruis to Itoje 'every time'. This despite Itoje having bigger squat. Referenced back to Pom scrum shoring up once Itoje moved to LH as Nick first identified.
Makes me think a bit of Patty T, although Blues scrum pretty good so far in 2020.@pakman said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:
Little something for NTA. In Today's UK Torygraph Saracens coach identifies that Kruis has much better technique than Itoje as TH lock, at that THs prefer Kruis to Itoje 'every time'. This despite Itoje having bigger squat.
That sounds like info from grinder
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Stuff.co.nz: How Springboks flattered referee Jerome Garces to help win World Cup.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/122577448/how-springboks-flattered-referee-jerome-garces-to-help-win-world-cup
