Crusaders v Blues

Chris

@pukunui said in Crusaders v Blues:

@Winger said in Crusaders v Blues:

@booboo said in Crusaders v Blues:

@Winger said in Crusaders v Blues:

@KiwiMurph said in Crusaders v Blues:

Beauden was rubbish. One of the worst games i've ever seen him play. He gave away 2 soft penalties - he kicked out on the full - he put in a shit kick before halftime. He was pants. He also looks like he has seriously lost his pace.

He was brilliant about 4-5 years back and before then. But hes been going slowly downhill since. But still good but not great.

I hoped the Blues coaches would get him moving back towards great again. But so far hes moving in the opposite direction. Maybe his time is up. Or the Blues move was a big mistake. Or hes not really a FB.

I'm bored with the Crusaders winning year after year so disappointed with this result. The only team that might have challenged is so far behind now the title is decided after 4 games

So the other teams have got to get better

It can't be done if most of the best players sign for the best team (as their AB chances are much better). And the next level down quality players bugger of overseas.

NZR need to come up with a (financial) system were the best players are evenly shared out (at present it almost ensures the opposite). Otherwise a new competition will slowly die. Or will never achieve the following it could have if one team wins ever year. This includes Aust (or SA if still included although this model has done its time). Aust can only support 3 teams at most. So 5 EVEN NZ teams and three QUALITY Aussie teams = success. But NZ need to be ruthless (ignore reasons why it can be done. For example Abs might need to move teams as Barrett did) to ensure an even distribution of players. This new competition must be seen as very important rather than just the ABs. And super rugby almost as an irrelevant feeder for the ABs (the current set up).

Hahaha wtf! So who are all these “most of the best”
Players who the Crusaders have been signing up?
That is just straight up bullshit.

I would argue that the Crusaders only have a handful of players you could consider as “best” in NZ in their positions.
Moody
Whitelock
Goodhue

Then a handful of “up there but not clearly number 1”
Taylor
Mounga
Reece
Bridge
Havili

Their dominance has nothing to do with signing most of the best players, as you put it.

Example. The Crusaders tried to sign Jones and Jordie Barrett. They did sign Goodhue and Ennor. A (financial) system should make this almost impossible where the strongest team can grab all the best young players. These top players make a big difference to a team. As Jordie does for the Canes,

Blues Signed BB,Canes signed Lomax teams chase who they need.Chiefs signed ALB,Mckenzie and Retalick who were all in the Canterbury system 2 of them born there.
Its another point of looking for excuses than getting better.
Another point the Crusaders developed Ennor Canterbury was his first Province it was Jordies too but he went to the Canes.

Duluth

@pukunui said in Crusaders v Blues:

Yellow card sure if you are being strict and there had been a string of penalties. But a penalty is a step too far for me.

Not sure about a penalty try. Probably not, I think there were other defenders.. haven’t checked

That’s an obvious yellow card though. Even if it was in the first minute of the game, it was so cynical.

booboo

@Chris said in Crusaders v Blues:

@booboo said in Crusaders v Blues:

@Chris said in Crusaders v Blues:

@ARHS said in Crusaders v Blues:

Struggling to understand a lot of the rulings at the breakdown and why moody not carded. Crusaders too clinical in the end.

I have doubts the try by Ioane should have been scored,
You could say Talea knocked it on in the air, then Plummer knocked it over the try line .
Or the Crusaders should have got the penalty from the scrum as they were the dominant scrum

Some real doubt in my mind it was a try because of the lead up to it.
So it’s all a matter of perspective and who you support.

So where do you draw the line about which mistakes you go back to to disregard everything after?

Wherever you feel it is correct
In the end bitching about a yellow card that didn’t happen is the sort of things that does not help your team beat the Crusaders looking at what you didn’t do well maybe will.
That’s why teams don’t beat the Crusaders in the big games.
They always feel robbed not beaten by a better team,the Chiefs at the moment are a case in point they bring up in the media they were robbed every game.

Nothing we do will help any team. We're just random blokes on the net.

But the forgiving an incorrect decision because of an earlier (possible) incorrect decision is illogical

And who is the Chiefs' coach again?

booboo

@pukunui said in Crusaders v Blues:

@booboo said in Crusaders v Blues:

@Duluth said in Crusaders v Blues:

Moody should be in the bin

Try shouldn’t wipe that out

Agreed. Thought he should have immediately awarded the penalty try.

At least Otere wouldn't have been charged down ...

Im a bit surprised by all the calls for an automatic yellow and penalty try.
This wasn’t the same as last week where the player was flying towards the line and was only stopped by an offside player tackling them. He tapped it and immediately collided with moody.

Yellow card sure if you are being strict and there had been a string of penalties. But a penalty is a step too far for me.

Regardless it should never have got to that point after the ref/tmo shit show in awarding the scrum to the Blues despite plummer clearly knocking it on.
How did they fuck that up?

"Collided"

booboo

@Bovidae said in Crusaders v Blues:

@booboo said in Crusaders v Blues:

Can Razor get a hair cut?

His comb-over is to hide his balding head.

All comb overs are.

And all should be chopped.

booboo

@pukunui said in Crusaders v Blues:

@Winger said in Crusaders v Blues:

@booboo said in Crusaders v Blues:

@Winger said in Crusaders v Blues:

@KiwiMurph said in Crusaders v Blues:

Beauden was rubbish. One of the worst games i've ever seen him play. He gave away 2 soft penalties - he kicked out on the full - he put in a shit kick before halftime. He was pants. He also looks like he has seriously lost his pace.

He was brilliant about 4-5 years back and before then. But hes been going slowly downhill since. But still good but not great.

I hoped the Blues coaches would get him moving back towards great again. But so far hes moving in the opposite direction. Maybe his time is up. Or the Blues move was a big mistake. Or hes not really a FB.

I'm bored with the Crusaders winning year after year so disappointed with this result. The only team that might have challenged is so far behind now the title is decided after 4 games

So the other teams have got to get better

It can't be done if most of the best players sign for the best team (as their AB chances are much better). And the next level down quality players bugger of overseas.

NZR need to come up with a (financial) system were the best players are evenly shared out (at present it almost ensures the opposite). Otherwise a new competition will slowly die. Or will never achieve the following it could have if one team wins ever year. This includes Aust (or SA if still included although this model has done its time). Aust can only support 3 teams at most. So 5 EVEN NZ teams and three QUALITY Aussie teams = success. But NZ need to be ruthless (ignore reasons why it can be done. For example Abs might need to move teams as Barrett did) to ensure an even distribution of players. This new competition must be seen as very important rather than just the ABs. And super rugby almost as an irrelevant feeder for the ABs (the current set up).

Hahaha wtf! So who are all these “most of the best”
Players who the Crusaders have been signing up?
That is just straight up bullshit.

I would argue that the Crusaders only have a handful of players you could consider as “best” in NZ in their positions.
Moody
Whitelock
Goodhue

Then a handful of “up there but not clearly number 1”
Taylor
Mounga
Reece
Bridge
Havili

Their dominance has nothing to do with signing most of the best players, as you put it.

Beat me to it.

Avoided the #booboo by reading the thread.

Machpants

The North Vs South will be interesting in that regard. Two large squads from 5, the top 20% of pro players in NZ minus BBBR. I don't think it's going to be Pretty evenly distributed, maybe Landers down a little

pukunui

@Winger said in Crusaders v Blues:

@pukunui said in Crusaders v Blues:

@Winger said in Crusaders v Blues:

@booboo said in Crusaders v Blues:

@Winger said in Crusaders v Blues:

@KiwiMurph said in Crusaders v Blues:

Beauden was rubbish. One of the worst games i've ever seen him play. He gave away 2 soft penalties - he kicked out on the full - he put in a shit kick before halftime. He was pants. He also looks like he has seriously lost his pace.

He was brilliant about 4-5 years back and before then. But hes been going slowly downhill since. But still good but not great.

I hoped the Blues coaches would get him moving back towards great again. But so far hes moving in the opposite direction. Maybe his time is up. Or the Blues move was a big mistake. Or hes not really a FB.

I'm bored with the Crusaders winning year after year so disappointed with this result. The only team that might have challenged is so far behind now the title is decided after 4 games

So the other teams have got to get better

It can't be done if most of the best players sign for the best team (as their AB chances are much better). And the next level down quality players bugger of overseas.

NZR need to come up with a (financial) system were the best players are evenly shared out (at present it almost ensures the opposite). Otherwise a new competition will slowly die. Or will never achieve the following it could have if one team wins ever year. This includes Aust (or SA if still included although this model has done its time). Aust can only support 3 teams at most. So 5 EVEN NZ teams and three QUALITY Aussie teams = success. But NZ need to be ruthless (ignore reasons why it can be done. For example Abs might need to move teams as Barrett did) to ensure an even distribution of players. This new competition must be seen as very important rather than just the ABs. And super rugby almost as an irrelevant feeder for the ABs (the current set up).

Hahaha wtf! So who are all these “most of the best”
Players who the Crusaders have been signing up?
That is just straight up bullshit.

I would argue that the Crusaders only have a handful of players you could consider as “best” in NZ in their positions.
Moody
Whitelock
Goodhue

Then a handful of “up there but not clearly number 1”
Taylor
Mounga
Reece
Bridge
Havili

Their dominance has nothing to do with signing most of the best players, as you put it.

Example. The Crusaders tried to sign Jones and Jordie Barrett. They did sign Goodhue and Ennor. A (financial) system should make this almost impossible where the strongest team can grab all the best young players. These top players make a big difference to a team. As Jordie does for the Canes,

That’s it? Attempting to sign a high school kid and Jordie Barrett? And signing two guys who had been playing for Canterbury from a young age?

Wow, yeah that is some compelling evidence.

Duluth

@pukunui said in Crusaders v Blues:

He tapped it and immediately collided with moody.

Just checked. This isn’t accurate. Moody moved towards the player and attempted the tackle

pukunui

@booboo said in Crusaders v Blues:

@pukunui said in Crusaders v Blues:

@booboo said in Crusaders v Blues:

@Duluth said in Crusaders v Blues:

Moody should be in the bin

Try shouldn’t wipe that out

Agreed. Thought he should have immediately awarded the penalty try.

At least Otere wouldn't have been charged down ...

Im a bit surprised by all the calls for an automatic yellow and penalty try.
This wasn’t the same as last week where the player was flying towards the line and was only stopped by an offside player tackling them. He tapped it and immediately collided with moody.

Yellow card sure if you are being strict and there had been a string of penalties. But a penalty is a step too far for me.

Regardless it should never have got to that point after the ref/tmo shit show in awarding the scrum to the Blues despite plummer clearly knocking it on.
How did they fuck that up?

"Collided"

I said collided because my impression was Akira ran straight into Moody who was standing in an offside position probably having a whinge about being penalised at the scrum like most front rower do.

However, I didn’t catch a replay to see if there was more of a tackle attempt by moody than my first impression suggested. Doesn’t change much though. Getting in the way is still a penalty/possible yellow but still not a penalty try for me.

pukunui

@Duluth said in Crusaders v Blues:

@pukunui said in Crusaders v Blues:

He tapped it and immediately collided with moody.

Just checked. This isn’t accurate. Moody moved towards the player and attempted the tackle

Beat me to it. Fair enough, I didn’t catch the replay. Still not a penalty try IMO.

Duluth

@pukunui said in Crusaders v Blues:

Getting in the way is still a penalty/possible yellow but still not a penalty try for me.

‘Getting in the way” - He attempted a tackle. Clear yellow.

No penalty try because there were other players who could’ve prevented a try (it would have been difficult because they had to retreat too, but possible)

Nepia

@Chris said in Crusaders v Blues:

Retalick who were all in the Canterbury system 2 of them born there.
Its another point of looking for excuses than getting better.

He's a dicey example to use, the Chiefs got him from Hawkes Bay because he was unwanted by the Crusaders and Canterbury who'd brought in Dominic Bird from Hawkes Bay (hindsight says they got that one wrong. ).

pukunui

@Duluth said in Crusaders v Blues:

@pukunui said in Crusaders v Blues:

Getting in the way is still a penalty/possible yellow but still not a penalty try for me.

‘Getting in the way” - He attempted a tackle. Clear yellow.

No penalty try because there were other players who could’ve prevented a try (it would have been difficult because they had to retreat too, but possible)

Yep, after hunting down the replay (about 2min into the highlights vid in this thread) I wouldn’t have any argument with a yellow for that. Too much doubt for the PT though.

Nepia

@pukunui said in Crusaders v Blues:

@Duluth said in Crusaders v Blues:

@pukunui said in Crusaders v Blues:

Getting in the way is still a penalty/possible yellow but still not a penalty try for me.

‘Getting in the way” - He attempted a tackle. Clear yellow.

No penalty try because there were other players who could’ve prevented a try (it would have been difficult because they had to retreat too, but possible)

Yep, after hunting down the replay (about 2min into the highlights vid in this thread) I wouldn’t have any argument with a yellow for that. Too much doubt for the PT though.

After rewatching that highlight vid just now I think a case could be made for a PT - none of those Cantab defenders were in a position to make a tackle as they were all within 10 metres, so therefore don't you have to remove them all from the board when assessing whether a try would be scored? Even the second tackler barely looked like he'd made it back the 10 metres, let alone if he'd made it if Moody hadn't have interrupted Akira.

taniwharugby

I reckon Ioane scoring was what saved Moody, how often does a try seem to 'erase' an indiscretion that would otherwise likely been a YC.

I dont think that was a PT though, far too many players around to say he 'probably' would have have scored, as you only remove Moody from the situation, not all the others who could 'probably' have stopped him (Whitelock, Taylor, Alalatoa and another all looked to have been back to the line to give enough doubt)

Chris

@Nepia said in Crusaders v Blues:

@Chris said in Crusaders v Blues:

Retalick who were all in the Canterbury system 2 of them born there.
Its another point of looking for excuses than getting better.

He's a dicey example to use, the Chiefs got him from Hawkes Bay because he was unwanted by the Crusaders and Canterbury who'd brought in Dominic Bird from Hawkes Bay (hindsight says they got that one wrong. ).

But born and breed in Canterbury, family still on the farm
Brother is still playing in North Canterbury club comp.

Nepia

@Chris said in Crusaders v Blues:

@Nepia said in Crusaders v Blues:

@Chris said in Crusaders v Blues:

Retalick who were all in the Canterbury system 2 of them born there.
Its another point of looking for excuses than getting better.

He's a dicey example to use, the Chiefs got him from Hawkes Bay because he was unwanted by the Crusaders and Canterbury who'd brought in Dominic Bird from Hawkes Bay (hindsight says they got that one wrong. ).

But born and breed in Canterbury, family still on the farm
Brother is still playing in North Canterbury club comp.

No one is arguing he's not from Canterbury (although his kids are going to Hawkes Bay through and through) - the key bit is bolded.

junior

@Winger said in Crusaders v Blues:

@booboo said in Crusaders v Blues:

@Winger said in Crusaders v Blues:

@KiwiMurph said in Crusaders v Blues:

Beauden was rubbish. One of the worst games i've ever seen him play. He gave away 2 soft penalties - he kicked out on the full - he put in a shit kick before halftime. He was pants. He also looks like he has seriously lost his pace.

He was brilliant about 4-5 years back and before then. But hes been going slowly downhill since. But still good but not great.

I hoped the Blues coaches would get him moving back towards great again. But so far hes moving in the opposite direction. Maybe his time is up. Or the Blues move was a big mistake. Or hes not really a FB.

I'm bored with the Crusaders winning year after year so disappointed with this result. The only team that might have challenged is so far behind now the title is decided after 4 games

So the other teams have got to get better

It can't be done if most of the best players sign for the best team (as their AB chances are much better). And the next level down quality players bugger of overseas.

NZR need to come up with a (financial) system were the best players are evenly shared out (at present it almost ensures the opposite). Otherwise a new competition will slowly die. Or will never achieve the following it could have if one team wins ever year. This includes Aust (or SA if still included although this model has done its time). Aust can only support 3 teams at most. So 5 EVEN NZ teams and three QUALITY Aussie teams = success. But NZ need to be ruthless (ignore reasons why it can be done. For example Abs might need to move teams as Barrett did) to ensure an even distribution of players. This new competition must be seen as very important rather than just the ABs. And super rugby almost as an irrelevant feeder for the ABs (the current set up).

I would have thought the best way to do this is actually to ensure that the coaching at all franchises is strong. Despite their poor recent form, one would think having Gats coaching the Chiefs would make that a desirable destination (perhaps he needs to improve his assistants). Similarly, it seems Rangi is leading a strong coaching unit at the Blues and I’m sure the way they’ve played this year will make players consider moving there.

nzzp

Well, pretty late to this thread due to life and being away and stuff. Few things

Great game of footy. Seriously good fun
Blues were the better side for most of that game. For the first three quarters, they dominated up front, and had stinging defence. Asked a lot of questions of a good Crusaders outfit. However,
Crusaders in Chch are remarkable. What a team. They have pulled away in the final quarter this year, and just have that trust in each other. Along with, of course,
Some refereeing decisions that are frustrating. Inconsistency in side entry is particularly annoying - I think the ref swallowed his whistle for rucks in the final quarter. Just annoying, but that's what you get for having the sustained excellence and weight of history. Tendulkar didn't cop too many dodgy LBW, Crusaders rarely get dudded by refs. It's life, you have to be better.

So, overall, a game I was proud to support the Blues in. We were 5-10 minutes of playing well away from taking that out, and I'll take that given where we have been in the last 8 years or so. Really staunch effort, and pipped by a very well coached and motivated side who are the best in the world at the moment.

Roll on the rematch at the Garden of Eden! Can't wait to see that in person.

The Silver Fern

Crusaders v Blues