Ultimate NPC: - Northland
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Bevan Holmes, the holder of that infamous record of playing the most games for the All Blacks with out playing a test (31).
He would have played more for both NZ (IMO) and North Auckland, but he had a bad run with injuries throughout an interrupted career.
He played until the end of 1978 (including the Ranfurly Shield win) and was better a better No. 6/8 than many that have been suggested. -
have to be Bronson if no Guy then, over 100 games for Northland, over 40 super games plus 7 for NZ Maori.
So just 10 now - Dunn or Holwell?
1 - Con Barrell (Northland/North Auckland Caps - 77, AB's - 4 matches, 0 tests)
2 - Whitcombe (20,5) Sloane (146, 1)
3 - Bronson Murray (104, 0)
4 - Ian Jones (66, 79)
5 - Glenn Taylor (143, 1)
6 - Norm Maxwell (38, 36)
7 - Gus Collins (114, 0)
8 - Bevan Holmes (90, 31, 0)
9 - Sid Going (110, 29)
10 - David Holwell (115, 0) Eddie Dunn (107, 2)
11 - Rupeni Caucau (21, 0)
12 - Jack Goodhue (9, 14)
13 - Norm Berryman (107*, 1)
14 - Rene Ranger (88, 6)
15 - Warren Johnstone (161, 0)@Pepe Holmes taught my brother at Primary School for a while too, not sure if that says much given you know my brother haha
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@taniwharugby said in Ultimate NPC: - Northland:
have to be Bronson if no Guy then, over 100 games for Northland, over 40 super games plus 7 for NZ Maori.
So just 10 now - Dunn or Holwell?
1 - Con Barrell (Northland/North Auckland Caps - 77, AB's - 4 matches, 0 tests)
2 - Whitcombe (20,5) Sloane (146, 1)
3 - Bronson Murray (104, 0)
4 - Ian Jones (66, 79)
5 - Glenn Taylor (143, 1)
6 - Norm Maxwell (38, 36)
7 - Gus Collins (114, 0)
8 - Bevan Holmes (90, 31, 0)
9 - Sid Going (110, 29)
10 - David Holwell (115, 0) Eddie Dunn (107, 2)
11 - Rupeni Caucau (21, 0)
12 - Jack Goodhue (9, 14)
13 - Norm Berryman (107*, 1)
14 - Rene Ranger (88, 6)
15 - Warren Johnstone (161, 0)@Pepe Holmes taught my brother at Primary School for a while too, not sure if that says much given you know my brother haha
Give it to Holwell
And swap Maxwell & Taylor around...
That is a bloody good team, how about the razzle dazzle in the backline
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looks a pretty handy side, even putting Goodhue at 12 (where he played well for Northland)
Berryman, Ranger & Rupeni...that pack could supply them some quality ball
@Gunner said in Ultimate NPC: - Northland:
1 - Con Barrell (Northland/North Auckland Caps - 77, AB's - 4 matches, 0 tests)
2 - Whitcombe (20,5)
3 - Mike Storey (36,0)
4 - Ian Jones (66, 79)
5 - Norm Maxwell (38, 36)
6 - Glenn Taylor (143, 1)
7 - Gus Collins (114, 0)
8 - Bevan Holmes (90, 31, 0)
9 - Sid Going (110, 29)
10 - David Holwell (115, 0)
11 - Rupeni Caucau (21, 0)
12 - Jack Goodhue (9, 14)
13 - Norm Berryman (107, 1)
14 - Rene Ranger (88, 6)
15 - Jared Payne (36, Ire 20, B & I Lions 0) -
@taniwharugby. Not bad but dissenting on a few....Bronson Murray was a weak scrummager. Someone like Mike Storey who I really rate would be better. He, with Whitcombe and Tim Knight were the best front row I can remember. You have to have Eddie Dunn who was a first choice AB and ahead of his time with the type of rugby he played, in front of David Holwell. Also Jared Payne ( Ireland, Lions ) offers more than the boot.
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@taniwharugby said in Ultimate NPC: - Northland:
@dogmeat yeah I did have a look at him too, but I think Jones edges him, Michael Speight is another good lock, although he played 1 game more for NH than us.
@Gunner Bevan Holmes is another to consider at 8, 90 games for Northland, Wiki says he played for NZ between 1970-1973 with 0 appearances.
I thought of Jake too.
As @Pepe notes, most games for NZ without a test, but if he was playing today with the substitutions/rotation etc he would have had at least 30 odd tests.
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@kev I could easily be convinced of Payne over Johnston, The Boot just carries a bit more mana I reckon, even though Payne was a more well rounded and dangerous player, similarly someone over Murray, who I agree wasnt a strong scrummager, even though he was very good at times...very inconsistent, so yeah I could go with Storey over him (Storey played 36 times for Northland and 3 for the Blues as a sub)
While Dunn played higher than Holwell, I'm still not sold, think it is about 60/40 for me.
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@taniwharugby Don’t get me wrong. All the players are in the frame. Warren Johnstone kicked the ball further and higher than anyone I have ever seen and was a good footballer for a big man. Holwell is the toughest player we have ever had and just got better every year....but Eddie Dunn played 20 times for ABs with two tests.
The other propping option is Wayne Neville.
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@kev said in Ultimate NPC: - Northland:
@Nepia After Holmes I would have gone for Neil Ruddell.
Ian Ruddell was very good, heady loose forward { No. 8 or 7). He made NZ age grade and trials from memory. Perhaps lacking a little mongrel at times?
The only slight problem with this discussion is that you are comparing amateurs with professionials (or semi professionials).
So the likes of Peter Sloane, Joe Morgan, Going/ Woodman/Dunn/Phillips whanau are all at at are slight disadvantage. It's all great fun though... -
@taniwharugby
Are you alluding that he was a better rugby player than teacher? ...
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@Pepe Haha more like pushing something uphill with a toothpick getting him to sit still and learn
Yea always gonna encounter issues comparing players from eras.
Colin Meads is a prime example, one of our greatest ever players, yet isn't really tall enough for a lock in today's game, Bert Cooke, supposedly the Christian Cullen of his day, yet he weighed in at 65kg, arent many kids playing 1st 15 rugby that low anymore, but both still worthy of being considered greats of our game.
Always remember a bit in Meads book where the current AB dietician at the time was discussing it with Meads, and he was like we ate this, did that and we did well, the response was imagine how much better you could have been with current diet and training...which he didn't have a response to
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@Pepe Agree with you on Ruddell. He was a bit unlucky when it came to higher honours, sort of the Duane Monkely of North Auckland. Your finalised team looks very vulnerable without a Woodman on the wing and especially a Dunn at first five.
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@taniwharugby yep that’s a quality side.
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