Blues v Highlanders
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@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kirwan i did, so you're saying its impossible for them to pass it ruther backwards?
In the case of throwing the ball over your head while running forward just how far back would you like the receiver to be or the pass to be?
Rieko was a long way behind his brother when the pass was made anyway.
The law is simple. You can’t pass the ball toward the opponents line. Nothing about whether the ball can’t land or be caught closer. Judge the pass and only the pass. If it isn’t obviously being passed forward then it gets the benefit of the doubt.@crucial there is somewhere between directly over your head and flat
I understand the rules, its the subjective aspect of "out of the hands" that annoys me like all the subjective rules, we've all probably watched it loads of times each and there is still disagreement of if it was clearly backwards out of the hands or not
I'm just tired of the solution to reffing mistakes being for them to get better, too much human error and subjective decisions, i imagine the field had lines in the first place take decisions clear, in or out
maybe i should just be happy i got everyone agreeing to disagree with me
@nzzp said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
and everyone is really enjoying this shit, at least there are graphics for a straight line across the field the could use
This is blowing up because the call was so badly wrong. The controversial ones to referee are where the pass gets thrown in or immediately before contact, and that's where 'backwards out of the hands' is so important. Someone decelerating makes it look way way worse (even if it is technically correct).
This is just a howler. Player running, throws a big spiral pass backwards, keeps running, gets hit and the ball is still always behind him. It's just a no brainer.
i agree but other dont so it cant be so clear and obvious
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@crucial there is somewhere between directly over your head and flat
I understand the rules, its the subjective aspect of "out of the hands" that annoys me like all the subjective rules, we've all probably watched it loads of times each and there is still disagreement of if it was clearly backwards out of the hands or not
I'm just tired of the solution to reffing mistakes being for them to get better, too much human error and subjective decisions, i imagine the field had lines in the first place take decisions clear, in or out
maybe i should just be happy i got everyone agreeing to disagree with me
@nzzp said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
and everyone is really enjoying this shit, at least there are graphics for a straight line across the field the could use
This is blowing up because the call was so badly wrong. The controversial ones to referee are where the pass gets thrown in or immediately before contact, and that's where 'backwards out of the hands' is so important. Someone decelerating makes it look way way worse (even if it is technically correct).
This is just a howler. Player running, throws a big spiral pass backwards, keeps running, gets hit and the ball is still always behind him. It's just a no brainer.
i agree but other dont so it cant be so clear and obvious
@kiwiwomble The backwards out of the hand directive was an effort to simplify these sorts of ruling (mainly for the impossibility of the physics involved).
That's how it's ruled now, and they even got that part wrong. As said above, a howler.
If you watch the video you'll see that what tyou asking for is basically netball, you'd have to stop in order to pass.
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@crucial there is somewhere between directly over your head and flat
I understand the rules, its the subjective aspect of "out of the hands" that annoys me like all the subjective rules, we've all probably watched it loads of times each and there is still disagreement of if it was clearly backwards out of the hands or not
I'm just tired of the solution to reffing mistakes being for them to get better, too much human error and subjective decisions, i imagine the field had lines in the first place take decisions clear, in or out
maybe i should just be happy i got everyone agreeing to disagree with me
@nzzp said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
and everyone is really enjoying this shit, at least there are graphics for a straight line across the field the could use
This is blowing up because the call was so badly wrong. The controversial ones to referee are where the pass gets thrown in or immediately before contact, and that's where 'backwards out of the hands' is so important. Someone decelerating makes it look way way worse (even if it is technically correct).
This is just a howler. Player running, throws a big spiral pass backwards, keeps running, gets hit and the ball is still always behind him. It's just a no brainer.
i agree but other dont so it cant be so clear and obvious
@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@crucial there is somewhere between directly over your head and flat
I understand the rules, its the subjective aspect of "out of the hands" that annoys me like all the subjective rules, we've all probably watched it loads of times each and there is still disagreement of if it was clearly backwards out of the hands or not
I'm just tired of the solution to reffing mistakes being for them to get better, too much human error and subjective decisions, i imagine the field had lines in the first place take decisions clear, in or out
maybe i should just be happy i got everyone agreeing to disagree with me
We’ve had these discussions before but the easiest way to judge this particular instance is the velocity of the passing and catching players. If they remained relatively constant and the catcher was the same distance behind the passer through the travel then quite obviously the ball was passed back. Physically impossible for that ball to have been passed forward unless Rieko put 15 metres on his brother in three steps.
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@crucial there is somewhere between directly over your head and flat
I understand the rules, its the subjective aspect of "out of the hands" that annoys me like all the subjective rules, we've all probably watched it loads of times each and there is still disagreement of if it was clearly backwards out of the hands or not
I'm just tired of the solution to reffing mistakes being for them to get better, too much human error and subjective decisions, i imagine the field had lines in the first place take decisions clear, in or out
maybe i should just be happy i got everyone agreeing to disagree with me
@nzzp said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
and everyone is really enjoying this shit, at least there are graphics for a straight line across the field the could use
This is blowing up because the call was so badly wrong. The controversial ones to referee are where the pass gets thrown in or immediately before contact, and that's where 'backwards out of the hands' is so important. Someone decelerating makes it look way way worse (even if it is technically correct).
This is just a howler. Player running, throws a big spiral pass backwards, keeps running, gets hit and the ball is still always behind him. It's just a no brainer.
i agree but other dont so it cant be so clear and obvious
@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
i agree but other dont so it cant be so clear and obvious
Fern's gonna Fern right?
People tend to be very one eyed when it comes to interpretation. This one surprises me because after watching the world rugby video, the only people who think that was the correct call are the TMO and people being wilfully obtuse.
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@kiwiwomble The backwards out of the hand directive was an effort to simplify these sorts of ruling (mainly for the impossibility of the physics involved).
That's how it's ruled now, and they even got that part wrong. As said above, a howler.
If you watch the video you'll see that what tyou asking for is basically netball, you'd have to stop in order to pass.
@kirwan i was with you until the last line, thats just not true, as @Crucial said, you can throw it over your head and it wont go forward...and there is every angle between that and lateral/90 degrees, its not a case of a single degree off directly behind you and if will fly forward
@winger is right though, it would be a big change, maybe too big, too much to ask for player to run so much deeper
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@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@crucial there is somewhere between directly over your head and flat
I understand the rules, its the subjective aspect of "out of the hands" that annoys me like all the subjective rules, we've all probably watched it loads of times each and there is still disagreement of if it was clearly backwards out of the hands or not
I'm just tired of the solution to reffing mistakes being for them to get better, too much human error and subjective decisions, i imagine the field had lines in the first place take decisions clear, in or out
maybe i should just be happy i got everyone agreeing to disagree with me
We’ve had these discussions before but the easiest way to judge this particular instance is the velocity of the passing and catching players. If they remained relatively constant and the catcher was the same distance behind the passer through the travel then quite obviously the ball was passed back. Physically impossible for that ball to have been passed forward unless Rieko put 15 metres on his brother in three steps.
@crucial said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@crucial there is somewhere between directly over your head and flat
I understand the rules, its the subjective aspect of "out of the hands" that annoys me like all the subjective rules, we've all probably watched it loads of times each and there is still disagreement of if it was clearly backwards out of the hands or not
I'm just tired of the solution to reffing mistakes being for them to get better, too much human error and subjective decisions, i imagine the field had lines in the first place take decisions clear, in or out
maybe i should just be happy i got everyone agreeing to disagree with me
We’ve had these discussions before but the easiest way to judge this particular instance is the velocity of the passing and catching players. If they remained relatively constant and the catcher was the same distance behind the passer through the travel then quite obviously the ball was passed back. Physically impossible for that ball to have been passed forward unless Rieko put 15 metres on his brother in three steps.
that make sense, but surely we can see how our game has got too complicated when decisions have to be made on relative velocities
@nzzp said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
i agree but other dont so it cant be so clear and obvious
Fern's gonna Fern right?
People tend to be very one eyed when it comes to interpretation. This one surprises me because after watching the world rugby video, the only people who think that was the correct call are the TMO and people being wilfully obtuse.
does no one start to doubt themselves when someone trained and paid to do a job and comes up with a different answer?
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@kirwan i was with you until the last line, thats just not true, as @Crucial said, you can throw it over your head and it wont go forward...and there is every angle between that and lateral/90 degrees, its not a case of a single degree off directly behind you and if will fly forward
@winger is right though, it would be a big change, maybe too big, too much to ask for player to run so much deeper
@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kirwan i was with you until the last line, thats just not true, as @Crucial said, you can throw it over your head and it wont go forward...and there is every angle between that and lateral/90 degrees, its not a case of a single degree off directly behind you and if will fly forward
@winger is right though, it would be a big change, maybe too big, too much to ask for player to run so much deeper
From memory, the video actually shows someone throwing it over their head and it travelling forward relative to the ground.
It's simple physics, the momentum of the player doesn't disappear from the ball when the player releases it.
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@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kirwan i was with you until the last line, thats just not true, as @Crucial said, you can throw it over your head and it wont go forward...and there is every angle between that and lateral/90 degrees, its not a case of a single degree off directly behind you and if will fly forward
@winger is right though, it would be a big change, maybe too big, too much to ask for player to run so much deeper
From memory, the video actually shows someone throwing it over their head and it travelling forward relative to the ground.
It's simple physics, the momentum of the player doesn't disappear from the ball when the player releases it.
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@crucial said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@crucial there is somewhere between directly over your head and flat
I understand the rules, its the subjective aspect of "out of the hands" that annoys me like all the subjective rules, we've all probably watched it loads of times each and there is still disagreement of if it was clearly backwards out of the hands or not
I'm just tired of the solution to reffing mistakes being for them to get better, too much human error and subjective decisions, i imagine the field had lines in the first place take decisions clear, in or out
maybe i should just be happy i got everyone agreeing to disagree with me
We’ve had these discussions before but the easiest way to judge this particular instance is the velocity of the passing and catching players. If they remained relatively constant and the catcher was the same distance behind the passer through the travel then quite obviously the ball was passed back. Physically impossible for that ball to have been passed forward unless Rieko put 15 metres on his brother in three steps.
that make sense, but surely we can see how our game has got too complicated when decisions have to be made on relative velocities
@nzzp said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
i agree but other dont so it cant be so clear and obvious
Fern's gonna Fern right?
People tend to be very one eyed when it comes to interpretation. This one surprises me because after watching the world rugby video, the only people who think that was the correct call are the TMO and people being wilfully obtuse.
does no one start to doubt themselves when someone trained and paid to do a job and comes up with a different answer?
@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@crucial said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@crucial there is somewhere between directly over your head and flat
I understand the rules, its the subjective aspect of "out of the hands" that annoys me like all the subjective rules, we've all probably watched it loads of times each and there is still disagreement of if it was clearly backwards out of the hands or not
I'm just tired of the solution to reffing mistakes being for them to get better, too much human error and subjective decisions, i imagine the field had lines in the first place take decisions clear, in or out
maybe i should just be happy i got everyone agreeing to disagree with me
We’ve had these discussions before but the easiest way to judge this particular instance is the velocity of the passing and catching players. If they remained relatively constant and the catcher was the same distance behind the passer through the travel then quite obviously the ball was passed back. Physically impossible for that ball to have been passed forward unless Rieko put 15 metres on his brother in three steps.
that make sense, but surely we can see how our game has got too complicated when decisions have to be made on relative velocities
If, a second after the ball left the hand - the ball is behind the player's hands... it's a legal pass. Simple.
As somebody mentioned above - the only problems which should arise - is when the player hits another immediately after/during the act of passing... so they come to a standstill, or backwards, or just slower.I've always wondered about how it might work going the same path as cricket... use technology to resolve this. A GPS-or-similar tracker on the ball, and the player... compare relative velocities at the point of the ball leaving hands.
And I'm not seriously suggesting this - just raising it as a possibility, buying some chips, and sitting back to watch the shitstorm. -
@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kirwan i was with you until the last line, thats just not true, as @Crucial said, you can throw it over your head and it wont go forward...and there is every angle between that and lateral/90 degrees, its not a case of a single degree off directly behind you and if will fly forward
@winger is right though, it would be a big change, maybe too big, too much to ask for player to run so much deeper
From memory, the video actually shows someone throwing it over their head and it travelling forward relative to the ground.
It's simple physics, the momentum of the player doesn't disappear from the ball when the player releases it.
@kirwan i agree, its simple physics
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The try looks better every time I see it. Running it from your own line after a great turnover, Akira makes a great run and shows pretty spectacular vision and passing skills, and Reiko sprinting to get into position and then burning off the defenders.
O for Awesome.
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@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@crucial said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@crucial there is somewhere between directly over your head and flat
I understand the rules, its the subjective aspect of "out of the hands" that annoys me like all the subjective rules, we've all probably watched it loads of times each and there is still disagreement of if it was clearly backwards out of the hands or not
I'm just tired of the solution to reffing mistakes being for them to get better, too much human error and subjective decisions, i imagine the field had lines in the first place take decisions clear, in or out
maybe i should just be happy i got everyone agreeing to disagree with me
We’ve had these discussions before but the easiest way to judge this particular instance is the velocity of the passing and catching players. If they remained relatively constant and the catcher was the same distance behind the passer through the travel then quite obviously the ball was passed back. Physically impossible for that ball to have been passed forward unless Rieko put 15 metres on his brother in three steps.
that make sense, but surely we can see how our game has got too complicated when decisions have to be made on relative velocities
If, a second after the ball left the hand - the ball is behind the player's hands... it's a legal pass. Simple.
As somebody mentioned above - the only problems which should arise - is when the player hits another immediately after/during the act of passing... so they come to a standstill, or backwards, or just slower.I've always wondered about how it might work going the same path as cricket... use technology to resolve this. A GPS-or-similar tracker on the ball, and the player... compare relative velocities at the point of the ball leaving hands.
And I'm not seriously suggesting this - just raising it as a possibility, buying some chips, and sitting back to watch the shitstorm.@kruse said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@crucial said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@crucial there is somewhere between directly over your head and flat
I understand the rules, its the subjective aspect of "out of the hands" that annoys me like all the subjective rules, we've all probably watched it loads of times each and there is still disagreement of if it was clearly backwards out of the hands or not
I'm just tired of the solution to reffing mistakes being for them to get better, too much human error and subjective decisions, i imagine the field had lines in the first place take decisions clear, in or out
maybe i should just be happy i got everyone agreeing to disagree with me
We’ve had these discussions before but the easiest way to judge this particular instance is the velocity of the passing and catching players. If they remained relatively constant and the catcher was the same distance behind the passer through the travel then quite obviously the ball was passed back. Physically impossible for that ball to have been passed forward unless Rieko put 15 metres on his brother in three steps.
that make sense, but surely we can see how our game has got too complicated when decisions have to be made on relative velocities
If, a second after the ball left the hand - the ball is behind the player's hands... it's a legal pass. Simple.
As somebody mentioned above - the only problems which should arise - is when the player hits another immediately after/during the act of passing... so they come to a standstill, or backwards, or just slower.I've always wondered about how it might work going the same path as cricket... use technology to resolve this. A GPS-or-similar tracker on the ball, and the player... compare relative velocities at the point of the ball leaving hands.
And I'm not seriously suggesting this - just raising it as a possibility, buying some chips, and sitting back to watch the shitstorm.Perhaps a SpaceX rocket booster in the ball to remove the players momentum?
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@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@crucial said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@crucial there is somewhere between directly over your head and flat
I understand the rules, its the subjective aspect of "out of the hands" that annoys me like all the subjective rules, we've all probably watched it loads of times each and there is still disagreement of if it was clearly backwards out of the hands or not
I'm just tired of the solution to reffing mistakes being for them to get better, too much human error and subjective decisions, i imagine the field had lines in the first place take decisions clear, in or out
maybe i should just be happy i got everyone agreeing to disagree with me
We’ve had these discussions before but the easiest way to judge this particular instance is the velocity of the passing and catching players. If they remained relatively constant and the catcher was the same distance behind the passer through the travel then quite obviously the ball was passed back. Physically impossible for that ball to have been passed forward unless Rieko put 15 metres on his brother in three steps.
that make sense, but surely we can see how our game has got too complicated when decisions have to be made on relative velocities
If, a second after the ball left the hand - the ball is behind the player's hands... it's a legal pass. Simple.
As somebody mentioned above - the only problems which should arise - is when the player hits another immediately after/during the act of passing... so they come to a standstill, or backwards, or just slower.I've always wondered about how it might work going the same path as cricket... use technology to resolve this. A GPS-or-similar tracker on the ball, and the player... compare relative velocities at the point of the ball leaving hands.
And I'm not seriously suggesting this - just raising it as a possibility, buying some chips, and sitting back to watch the shitstorm. -
The try looks better every time I see it. Running it from your own line after a great turnover, Akira makes a great run and shows pretty spectacular vision and passing skills, and Reiko sprinting to get into position and then burning off the defenders.
O for Awesome.
@kirwan said in Blues v Highlanders:
The try looks better every time I see it. Running it from your own line after a great turnover, Akira makes a great run and shows pretty spectacular vision and passing skills, and Reiko sprinting to get into position and then burning off the defenders.
O for Awesome.
Yep. And that’s why I am pissed off that it was ruled out. It was one of those tries that make you feel good about the game. It’s the skill that we tune in for and hope to witness
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@kirwan said in Blues v Highlanders:
The try looks better every time I see it. Running it from your own line after a great turnover, Akira makes a great run and shows pretty spectacular vision and passing skills, and Reiko sprinting to get into position and then burning off the defenders.
O for Awesome.
Yep. And that’s why I am pissed off that it was ruled out. It was one of those tries that make you feel good about the game. It’s the skill that we tune in for and hope to witness
@crucial said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kirwan said in Blues v Highlanders:
The try looks better every time I see it. Running it from your own line after a great turnover, Akira makes a great run and shows pretty spectacular vision and passing skills, and Reiko sprinting to get into position and then burning off the defenders.
O for Awesome.
Yep. And that’s why I am pissed off that it was ruled out. It was one of those tries that make you feel good about the game. It’s the skill that we tune in for and hope to witness
Yep, that's it in a nutshell.
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@kruse GPS just isn;t accurate enough but the ball tracking stuff from cricket or tennis might be
@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kruse GPS just isn;t accurate enough but the ball tracking stuff from cricket or tennis might be
You would still have the same problem as now. The ball would still travel forward relative to the ground.
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@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kruse GPS just isn;t accurate enough but the ball tracking stuff from cricket or tennis might be
You would still have the same problem as now. The ball would still travel forward relative to the ground.
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@crucial i think the idea would be those technologies would at least removes the human fuck up aspect, could show it going backwards first...really want the TMO to explain what he saw
@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@crucial i think the idea would be those technologies would at least removes the human fuck up aspect, could show it going backwards first...really want the TMO to explain what he saw
I suspect he was trying to fix his mistake the day before with the clear forward pass in the Crusaders game. So "fixed" his mistake with another mistake.
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@kirwan said in Blues v Highlanders:
https://twitter.com/BluesRugbyTeam/status/1371215666737389568
That was truly laugh out loud funny. Very well done.
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@kirwan said in Blues v Highlanders:
https://twitter.com/BluesRugbyTeam/status/1371215666737389568
That was truly laugh out loud funny. Very well done.
