Reds v Chiefs

ACT Crusader

Just a thought on the Chiefs.

Their last five games:
Away Auckland
Away Chch
Away Perth
Home
Away Townsville

Pretty rough travel schedule.

No excuse for the poor selections though.

And further, at the risk of ridicule, I still think the red was harsh.

It was understandable in terms of the protocol, but I still have reservations. To my mind he wasn't attempting a tackle, he ran into the line that the halfback was running, and there was resultant contact, made to look worse by slomo.

Fire away.

Not just the travel, they’ve played a good number of consecutive games too, so I think in any event they were going to (rightly or wrongly) rotate a few players.

Stargazer

@booboo said in Reds v Chiefs:

And further, at the risk of ridicule, I still think the red was harsh.

It was understandable in terms of the protocol, but I still have reservations. To my mind he wasn't attempting a tackle, he ran into the line that the halfback was running, and there was resultant contact, made to look worse by slomo.

Fire away.

Okay, I'll bite. The red was fully deserved and very similar to that of Alex Hodgman, who got a 3-week suspension. If it was just an unfortunate collision while running into the same line as the Reds' halfback, he wouldn't have jumped and directed his left shoulder towards the halfback's upper body (I assume he intended to hit him in the chest or shoulder). If he was just running, he would have kept both his feet on the ground and ran straight. He would probably have braced for impact with his right arm; instead, he used his left shoulder.

I haven't read the entire thread, but I just would like to add that Weber deserves a Razzie for the worst actor. Faking to be shocked by the decision. :thumbs_down_medium-light_skin_tone:

nostrildamus

@gt12 said in Reds v Chiefs:

@act-crusader said in Reds v Chiefs:

@yeetyaah said in Reds v Chiefs:

@sparky

Hope he never does that type of shit in the Black Jersey. That would be unforgiveable.

You mean like how SBW did it and still kept the starting jersey?

Another Chiefs player…

Learned everything about rugby from that Crusaders culture.

Chiefs players don't learn anything about rugby from being in the Chiefs? Ok, noted.

gt12

@nostrildamus said in Reds v Chiefs:

@gt12 said in Reds v Chiefs:

@act-crusader said in Reds v Chiefs:

@yeetyaah said in Reds v Chiefs:

@sparky

Hope he never does that type of shit in the Black Jersey. That would be unforgiveable.

You mean like how SBW did it and still kept the starting jersey?

Another Chiefs player…

Learned everything about rugby from that Crusaders culture.

Chiefs players don't learn anything about rugby from being in the Chiefs? Ok, noted.

You clearly missed the game last night if you need to ask that question.

MiketheSnow

@booboo said in Reds v Chiefs:

@mikethesnow said in Reds v Chiefs:

@gunner said in Reds v Chiefs:

@nzzp said in Reds v Chiefs:

@gunner said in Reds v Chiefs:

I hate those penalties/yellow cards.

Was hardly a ‘deliberate knock on’, it was more a I’ll have a crack at that, coz it could come off…

It's annoying, but it's the way it's been refereed for ages. The players should know better

Yep I know… doesn’t mean I have to agree

Happens anywhere else on the field except the 22 it’s a knock on.
Just annoys me, there’s a deliberate knock on, then there’s taking a chance. Big difference IMO.

Deliberate attempt at stopping a certain try

Yellow and Penalty Try every day of the week

Not in itself yellow cardable or penalusable . It was doing so illegally that made it.

That’s my point

He purposefully tried to intercept the pass.

Unfortunately he was unsuccessful, and his error in judgement and execution in an area of the field where officials are looking to ‘doubly’ penalise the transgressor to ‘reward’ the attacking team, left the officials no choice but to card him and award the penalty try.

He knew what he was going.

It was a hero / zero decision.

Sometimes they come off, and I would suspect statistically most times they don’t.

MiketheSnow

Further to this, the attempted intercept in this area of the field is a coaching decision and part of team culture in my opinion.

Defender plays the man, but ball carrier gets the pass away and receiver scores it’s 5 points to the attacking team with a difficult touch line conversion to make it 7.

Defending team still have 15 players on the field.

The alternative.

Coaches blessing to go for the intercept.

An unsuccessful attempt results in penalty try and guaranteed 7 points, along with the defender being yellow carded and team down a man.

Most good teams will score between 7-10 points against a team with a man in the bin whilst conceding 0-3 points.

To me the risk / reward ratio does not warrant the attempted intercept in this type of scenario.

If the Chiefs had a culture of ‘let them have it, we’ll get that back with 15 on the park’ the outcome of this match could have been very different.

ploughboy

@booboo
im will you booboo to me looking more like he trying to get in road to block pass. clumsy no intent.to compare to hodgson not even close he lead with point on shoulder

booboo

@mikethesnow said in Reds v Chiefs:

@booboo said in Reds v Chiefs:

@mikethesnow said in Reds v Chiefs:

@gunner said in Reds v Chiefs:

@nzzp said in Reds v Chiefs:

@gunner said in Reds v Chiefs:

I hate those penalties/yellow cards.

Was hardly a ‘deliberate knock on’, it was more a I’ll have a crack at that, coz it could come off…

It's annoying, but it's the way it's been refereed for ages. The players should know better

Yep I know… doesn’t mean I have to agree

Happens anywhere else on the field except the 22 it’s a knock on.
Just annoys me, there’s a deliberate knock on, then there’s taking a chance. Big difference IMO.

Deliberate attempt at stopping a certain try

Yellow and Penalty Try every day of the week

Not in itself yellow cardable or penalusable . It was doing so illegally that made it.

That’s my point

He purposefully tried to intercept the pass.

Unfortunately he was unsuccessful, and his error in judgement and execution in an area of the field where officials are looking to ‘doubly’ penalise the transgressor to ‘reward’ the attacking team, left the officials no choice but to card him and award the penalty try.

He knew what he was going.

It was a hero / zero decision.

Sometimes they come off, and I would suspect statistically most times they don’t.

I think that's contradictory. If he's trying to intercept it's not a deliberate knock on ...

But yellow was definitely the right call here.

booboo

@stargazer said in Reds v Chiefs:

@booboo said in Reds v Chiefs:

And further, at the risk of ridicule, I still think the red was harsh.

It was understandable in terms of the protocol, but I still have reservations. To my mind he wasn't attempting a tackle, he ran into the line that the halfback was running, and there was resultant contact, made to look worse by slomo.

Fire away.

Okay, I'll bite. The red was fully deserved and very similar to that of Alex Hodgman, who got a 3-week suspension. If it was just an unfortunate collision while running into the same line as the Reds' halfback, he wouldn't have jumped and directed his left shoulder towards the halfback's upper body (I assume he intended to hit him in the chest or shoulder). If he was just running, he would have kept both his feet on the ground and ran straight. He would probably have braced for impact with his right arm; instead, he used his left shoulder.

I haven't read the entire thread, but I just would like to add that Weber deserves a Razzie for the worst actor. Faking to be shocked by the decision. :thumbs_down_medium-light_skin_tone:

I think we'll agree to disagree.

And how do we explain To'omua on Collins this arvo? Penalty only? Really?

Siam

@booboo said in Reds v Chiefs:

@stargazer said in Reds v Chiefs:

@booboo said in Reds v Chiefs:

And further, at the risk of ridicule, I still think the red was harsh.

It was understandable in terms of the protocol, but I still have reservations. To my mind he wasn't attempting a tackle, he ran into the line that the halfback was running, and there was resultant contact, made to look worse by slomo.

Fire away.

Okay, I'll bite. The red was fully deserved and very similar to that of Alex Hodgman, who got a 3-week suspension. If it was just an unfortunate collision while running into the same line as the Reds' halfback, he wouldn't have jumped and directed his left shoulder towards the halfback's upper body (I assume he intended to hit him in the chest or shoulder). If he was just running, he would have kept both his feet on the ground and ran straight. He would probably have braced for impact with his right arm; instead, he used his left shoulder.

I haven't read the entire thread, but I just would like to add that Weber deserves a Razzie for the worst actor. Faking to be shocked by the decision. :thumbs_down_medium-light_skin_tone:

I think we'll agree to disagree.

And how do we explain To'omua on Collins this arvo? Penalty only? Really?

Yep. A common process: blokes like you and me mull over the dmac card. Get told it's an obvious red as that's what the law intends. Player safety, you see. Slowly over 24 hours we resign ourselves to "ok, that's the way it is now, so be it."

Then we watch the Toomua tackle and the whole premise blows up in everyone's faces!

It's been like that for a decade since the "taking out the man in the air" redcards were flavour of the month. Then all the head contact reds in RWC.

Paranoid about player safety until they're not.

voodoo

@booboo said in Reds v Chiefs:

@stargazer said in Reds v Chiefs:

@booboo said in Reds v Chiefs:

And further, at the risk of ridicule, I still think the red was harsh.

It was understandable in terms of the protocol, but I still have reservations. To my mind he wasn't attempting a tackle, he ran into the line that the halfback was running, and there was resultant contact, made to look worse by slomo.

Fire away.

Okay, I'll bite. The red was fully deserved and very similar to that of Alex Hodgman, who got a 3-week suspension. If it was just an unfortunate collision while running into the same line as the Reds' halfback, he wouldn't have jumped and directed his left shoulder towards the halfback's upper body (I assume he intended to hit him in the chest or shoulder). If he was just running, he would have kept both his feet on the ground and ran straight. He would probably have braced for impact with his right arm; instead, he used his left shoulder.

I haven't read the entire thread, but I just would like to add that Weber deserves a Razzie for the worst actor. Faking to be shocked by the decision. :thumbs_down_medium-light_skin_tone:

I think we'll agree to disagree.

And how do we explain To'omua on Collins this arvo? Penalty only? Really?

Caaarn Booboo, you're one of the posters around here that I reckon I agree with the most often, but we can't be falling into the world of " McKenzie's tackle was ok because someone else did something later that wasn't judged as harshly " trap. Let's judge each incident on its merits and whine about the officiating of each accordingly!

booboo

@voodoo said in Reds v Chiefs:

@booboo said in Reds v Chiefs:

@stargazer said in Reds v Chiefs:

@booboo said in Reds v Chiefs:

And further, at the risk of ridicule, I still think the red was harsh.

It was understandable in terms of the protocol, but I still have reservations. To my mind he wasn't attempting a tackle, he ran into the line that the halfback was running, and there was resultant contact, made to look worse by slomo.

Fire away.

Okay, I'll bite. The red was fully deserved and very similar to that of Alex Hodgman, who got a 3-week suspension. If it was just an unfortunate collision while running into the same line as the Reds' halfback, he wouldn't have jumped and directed his left shoulder towards the halfback's upper body (I assume he intended to hit him in the chest or shoulder). If he was just running, he would have kept both his feet on the ground and ran straight. He would probably have braced for impact with his right arm; instead, he used his left shoulder.

I haven't read the entire thread, but I just would like to add that Weber deserves a Razzie for the worst actor. Faking to be shocked by the decision. :thumbs_down_medium-light_skin_tone:

I think we'll agree to disagree.

And how do we explain To'omua on Collins this arvo? Penalty only? Really?

Caaarn Booboo, you're one of the posters around here that I reckon I agree with the most often, but we can't be falling into the world of " McKenzie's tackle was ok because someone else did something later that wasn't judged as harshly " trap. Let's judge each incident on its merits and whine about the officiating of each accordingly

I'm flattered thanks @voodoo

You obviously don't read my drunk posts (which may or may not out number my sober ones).

Not my intent to compare but I suppose it ended up that way.

To my mind DMac got carded for incidental contact.

To'omua actively tried to tackle Collins. And made "direct contact to the head with force".

It's worth comparing.

I really don't think the intent of the law is to remove players who make incidental contact..

But if it is then some consistency is good.

I'm really questioning how someone gets red carded for what I see as an accidental collision.

Draw a line under that.

But as I was reading @Stargazer's reply I see To'omua smashing Collins and getting nothing.

voodoo

@booboo said in Reds v Chiefs:

@voodoo said in Reds v Chiefs:

@booboo said in Reds v Chiefs:

@stargazer said in Reds v Chiefs:

@booboo said in Reds v Chiefs:

And further, at the risk of ridicule, I still think the red was harsh.

It was understandable in terms of the protocol, but I still have reservations. To my mind he wasn't attempting a tackle, he ran into the line that the halfback was running, and there was resultant contact, made to look worse by slomo.

Fire away.

Okay, I'll bite. The red was fully deserved and very similar to that of Alex Hodgman, who got a 3-week suspension. If it was just an unfortunate collision while running into the same line as the Reds' halfback, he wouldn't have jumped and directed his left shoulder towards the halfback's upper body (I assume he intended to hit him in the chest or shoulder). If he was just running, he would have kept both his feet on the ground and ran straight. He would probably have braced for impact with his right arm; instead, he used his left shoulder.

I haven't read the entire thread, but I just would like to add that Weber deserves a Razzie for the worst actor. Faking to be shocked by the decision. :thumbs_down_medium-light_skin_tone:

I think we'll agree to disagree.

And how do we explain To'omua on Collins this arvo? Penalty only? Really?

Caaarn Booboo, you're one of the posters around here that I reckon I agree with the most often, but we can't be falling into the world of " McKenzie's tackle was ok because someone else did something later that wasn't judged as harshly " trap. Let's judge each incident on its merits and whine about the officiating of each accordingly

I'm flattered thanks @voodoo

You obviously don't read my drunk posts (which may or may not out number my sober ones).

Not my intent to compare but I suppose it ended up that way.

To my mind DMac got carded for incidental contact.

To'omua actively tried to tackle Collins. And made "direct contact to the head with force".

It's worth comparing.

I really don't think the intent of the law is to remove players who make incidental contact..

But if it is then some consistency is good.

I'm really questioning how someone gets red carded for what I see as an accidental collision.

Draw a line under that.

But as I was reading @Stargazer's reply I see To'omua smashing Collins and getting nothing.

Wait what, you post sober sometimes???

Dead to me

nzzp

@booboo said in Reds v Chiefs:

I really don't think the intent of the law is to remove players who make incidental contact..
I'm really questioning how someone gets red carded for what I see as an accidental collision.

here's the money link and quotest below. DMac spot on; the head high on the Highlanders player should have been a card of some colour, probably red (if you follow the framework strictly). High, plenty of time to set up, and reckless. Not massive force, though... but similar to the (EDIT: Fekitoa not) Naholo tackle against Ireland a few years ago that had people calling for red cards/suspensions.

The game is royally screwed at the moment with inconsitency of law application

https://www.world.rugby/the-game/laws/guidelines/17

red card:
High danger
Direct contact
Lack of control
High speed
Upright and dynamic
Leading head / shoulder / elbow / forearm
Swinging arm
No mitigation for intentional or highly reckless act of foul play

Mitigation
Sudden / significant drop in height or change in direction from ball carrier
A late change in dynamics due to another player in the contact
An effort to wrap / bind and having no time to adjust

That fekitoa tackle:
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/rugby/watch-tackle-really-worth-red-card-judiciary-finds-fekitoa-should-have-seen-bans-him-week

ACT Crusader

@stargazer said in Reds v Chiefs:

@booboo said in Reds v Chiefs:

And further, at the risk of ridicule, I still think the red was harsh.

It was understandable in terms of the protocol, but I still have reservations. To my mind he wasn't attempting a tackle, he ran into the line that the halfback was running, and there was resultant contact, made to look worse by slomo.

Fire away.

Okay, I'll bite. The red was fully deserved and very similar to that of Alex Hodgman, who got a 3-week suspension. If it was just an unfortunate collision while running into the same line as the Reds' halfback, he wouldn't have jumped and directed his left shoulder towards the halfback's upper body (I assume he intended to hit him in the chest or shoulder). If he was just running, he would have kept both his feet on the ground and ran straight. He would probably have braced for impact with his right arm; instead, he used his left shoulder.

I haven't read the entire thread, but I just would like to add that Weber deserves a Razzie for the worst actor. Faking to be shocked by the decision. :thumbs_down_medium-light_skin_tone:

The other thing about that play with DMac going in like that, it also exposed a hole. Poor play all round.

The Silver Fern

Reds v Chiefs