Springboks v British & Irish Lions I
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@booboo said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@bones said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@booboo said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
Looking at the teams gut feel is Bokke will take this.
What time is kick off?
Imagine what an in form
AustraliaEngland would do to them though.FIFY
But Australia beat France!
@bones said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@booboo said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@bones said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@booboo said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
Looking at the teams gut feel is Bokke will take this.
What time is kick off?
Imagine what an in form
AustraliaEngland would do to them though.FIFY
But Australia beat France!
France
BC -
Go Gryffindor
@machpants said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@bovidae said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@bones I mean that Kolbe is a stepper and lightning fast while van der Merwe takes a while to get going and has the turning circle of a tanker.
Yeah I was about to say that, lookng forward to VDM been shown up for the oil tanker he is!
Pasty Scots and bleached hair are an uneasy mix
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Surprised at that Lions Back Row and Price at Half Back. Might have found a place for Aki. The rest looks spot on. Lions Props all very strong.
My prediction is the Boks by less than 7.
@sparky That's my big worry. Our proven fatties sits on the bench. Ox will be fine but Trevor is a big worry. Daan Human our scrum guru coached him at the Bulls, so hopefully it's a Rassie trick. If we survive no scrum penalty in the 1st half, the test will be done.
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@stargazer said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
THE BRITISH & IRISH LIONS
15 Stuart Hogg (Exeter Chiefs, Scotland) #783
14 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, England) #816
13 Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822
12 Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824
11 Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841
10 Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints, Wales) #821
9 Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #8431 Wyn Jones (Scarlets, Wales) #842
2 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, England) #851
3 Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818
4 Maro Itoje (Saracens, England) #825
5 Alun Wyn Jones – captain (Ospreys, Wales) #761
6 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, England) #826
7 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, England) #853
8 Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839Replacements:
16 Ken Owens (Scarlets, Wales) #829
17 Rory Sutherland (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #840
18 Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, England) #814
19 Tadhg Beirne (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #838
20 Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland) #847
21 Conor Murray (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #790
22 Owen Farrell (Saracens, England) #780
23 Liam Williams (Scarlets, Wales) #833https://www.lionsrugby.com/2021/07/21/lions-team-to-face-springboks-for-first-test/
You can make an argument for each selection individually but equally or more so for some of the guys left out. What I don’t like is the balance over the back 5 forwards over the squad. You have Itoje, Lawes and Beirne who can all play lock or 6 but no cover at 8? Sure, Curry has played 8 for England and played well but really just played his usual game.
Not convinced.
Oh and memo to Josh Adams: must try harder. A few tries might help.
@catogrande said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@stargazer said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
THE BRITISH & IRISH LIONS
15 Stuart Hogg (Exeter Chiefs, Scotland) #783
14 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, England) #816
13 Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822
12 Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824
11 Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841
10 Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints, Wales) #821
9 Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #8431 Wyn Jones (Scarlets, Wales) #842
2 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, England) #851
3 Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818
4 Maro Itoje (Saracens, England) #825
5 Alun Wyn Jones – captain (Ospreys, Wales) #761
6 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, England) #826
7 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, England) #853
8 Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839Replacements:
16 Ken Owens (Scarlets, Wales) #829
17 Rory Sutherland (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #840
18 Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, England) #814
19 Tadhg Beirne (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #838
20 Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland) #847
21 Conor Murray (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #790
22 Owen Farrell (Saracens, England) #780
23 Liam Williams (Scarlets, Wales) #833https://www.lionsrugby.com/2021/07/21/lions-team-to-face-springboks-for-first-test/
You can make an argument for each selection individually but equally or more so for some of the guys left out. What I don’t like is the balance over the back 5 forwards over the squad. You have Itoje, Lawes and Beirne who can all play lock or 6 but no cover at 8? Sure, Curry has played 8 for England and played well but really just played his usual game.
Not convinced.
Oh and memo to Josh Adams: must try harder. A few tries might help.
I actually like the BIL starting pack. The loose forward trio has a bit of steel to them. The biggest thing will be Itoje not getting penalised off the park by the infamous Nic Berry
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@catogrande said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@stargazer said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
THE BRITISH & IRISH LIONS
15 Stuart Hogg (Exeter Chiefs, Scotland) #783
14 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, England) #816
13 Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822
12 Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824
11 Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841
10 Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints, Wales) #821
9 Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #8431 Wyn Jones (Scarlets, Wales) #842
2 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, England) #851
3 Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818
4 Maro Itoje (Saracens, England) #825
5 Alun Wyn Jones – captain (Ospreys, Wales) #761
6 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, England) #826
7 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, England) #853
8 Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839Replacements:
16 Ken Owens (Scarlets, Wales) #829
17 Rory Sutherland (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #840
18 Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, England) #814
19 Tadhg Beirne (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #838
20 Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland) #847
21 Conor Murray (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #790
22 Owen Farrell (Saracens, England) #780
23 Liam Williams (Scarlets, Wales) #833https://www.lionsrugby.com/2021/07/21/lions-team-to-face-springboks-for-first-test/
You can make an argument for each selection individually but equally or more so for some of the guys left out. What I don’t like is the balance over the back 5 forwards over the squad. You have Itoje, Lawes and Beirne who can all play lock or 6 but no cover at 8? Sure, Curry has played 8 for England and played well but really just played his usual game.
Not convinced.
Oh and memo to Josh Adams: must try harder. A few tries might help.
I actually like the BIL starting pack. The loose forward trio has a bit of steel to them. The biggest thing will be Itoje not getting penalised off the park by the infamous Nic Berry
@act-crusader funny you'd say that, I actually think they got the loose-trio wrong. Curry I agree with, but not so much the other two.
I don't see what the Lawes selection brings, for all the talk about his physicality and brawn I have never seen him have great game. I have been massively impressed by Beirne on tour and even in the six nations and if I had to choose between the two players it would even be close.
Conan seems like gimmick selection. Gatland wanted the best athlete he could find but I haven't seen anything so far on tour to suggest that he will be able to impose himself on the Springbok defence. I don't know if Gatland had any better options available to him.
Having said that there is now 1000 per cent chance those two are going tear it up this weekend.
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@act-crusader funny you'd say that, I actually think they got the loose-trio wrong. Curry I agree with, but not so much the other two.
I don't see what the Lawes selection brings, for all the talk about his physicality and brawn I have never seen him have great game. I have been massively impressed by Beirne on tour and even in the six nations and if I had to choose between the two players it would even be close.
Conan seems like gimmick selection. Gatland wanted the best athlete he could find but I haven't seen anything so far on tour to suggest that he will be able to impose himself on the Springbok defence. I don't know if Gatland had any better options available to him.
Having said that there is now 1000 per cent chance those two are going tear it up this weekend.
@sidbarret I thought Lawes had a pretty good 6N. I'd pick him over Itoje...
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@act-crusader funny you'd say that, I actually think they got the loose-trio wrong. Curry I agree with, but not so much the other two.
I don't see what the Lawes selection brings, for all the talk about his physicality and brawn I have never seen him have great game. I have been massively impressed by Beirne on tour and even in the six nations and if I had to choose between the two players it would even be close.
Conan seems like gimmick selection. Gatland wanted the best athlete he could find but I haven't seen anything so far on tour to suggest that he will be able to impose himself on the Springbok defence. I don't know if Gatland had any better options available to him.
Having said that there is now 1000 per cent chance those two are going tear it up this weekend.
@sidbarret said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@act-crusader funny you'd say that, I actually think they got the loose-trio wrong. Curry I agree with, but not so much the other two.
I don't see what the Lawes selection brings, for all the talk about his physicality and brawn I have never seen him have great game. I have been massively impressed by Beirne on tour and even in the six nations and if I had to choose between the two players it would even be close.
Conan seems like gimmick selection. Gatland wanted the best athlete he could find but I haven't seen anything so far on tour to suggest that he will be able to impose himself on the Springbok defence. I don't know if Gatland had any better options available to him.
Having said that there is now 1000 per cent chance those two are going tear it up this weekend.
Lawes is there if AWJ breaks early
He'll be warmed up and slip straight into second row.
On comes Beirne at 6
If the Lawes (Beirne), Curry, Conan combo isn't working then on comes Watson either as a direct replacement for Curry or in addition to Curry to pick up the tempo
Second scenario Watson replaces Conan and Curry goes to 8
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@sidbarret I thought Lawes had a pretty good 6N. I'd pick him over Itoje...
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@sidbarret said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@bones yeah sure, but Itoje was pretty rubbish in the 6n so that isn't saying much
Odd you say that. In the two matches where pretty much the whole team went missing -v Scotland and v Ireland, Itoje was our one bright spark, belying all the excuses of either not enough rugby (Sarries boys) or too much rugby (everyone else). He did get pinged a fair bit but that was understandable if he’s the only bugger putting himself about.
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@sidbarret said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@act-crusader funny you'd say that, I actually think they got the loose-trio wrong. Curry I agree with, but not so much the other two.
I don't see what the Lawes selection brings, for all the talk about his physicality and brawn I have never seen him have great game. I have been massively impressed by Beirne on tour and even in the six nations and if I had to choose between the two players it would even be close.
Conan seems like gimmick selection. Gatland wanted the best athlete he could find but I haven't seen anything so far on tour to suggest that he will be able to impose himself on the Springbok defence. I don't know if Gatland had any better options available to him.
Having said that there is now 1000 per cent chance those two are going tear it up this weekend.
Lawes is there if AWJ breaks early
He'll be warmed up and slip straight into second row.
On comes Beirne at 6
If the Lawes (Beirne), Curry, Conan combo isn't working then on comes Watson either as a direct replacement for Curry or in addition to Curry to pick up the tempo
Second scenario Watson replaces Conan and Curry goes to 8
@mikethesnow I get that he offers versatility, but if he is there to cover lock, is he really the next best that lions have and could he not do that from the bench?
Watson is another interesting one. He obviously offers a lot carrying and pilfering the ball, but does he have the stopping power to win the gain line? I know it is just one instance, but in the second sharks game the sharks ran lock at him off line out for a massive gain. If the lions can open up the game he can be great for them, but if bok bench get roll on late in the game I fear he could be targeted.
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@sidbarret said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@act-crusader funny you'd say that, I actually think they got the loose-trio wrong. Curry I agree with, but not so much the other two.
I don't see what the Lawes selection brings, for all the talk about his physicality and brawn I have never seen him have great game. I have been massively impressed by Beirne on tour and even in the six nations and if I had to choose between the two players it would even be close.
Conan seems like gimmick selection. Gatland wanted the best athlete he could find but I haven't seen anything so far on tour to suggest that he will be able to impose himself on the Springbok defence. I don't know if Gatland had any better options available to him.
Having said that there is now 1000 per cent chance those two are going tear it up this weekend.
Lawes is there if AWJ breaks early
He'll be warmed up and slip straight into second row.
On comes Beirne at 6
If the Lawes (Beirne), Curry, Conan combo isn't working then on comes Watson either as a direct replacement for Curry or in addition to Curry to pick up the tempo
Second scenario Watson replaces Conan and Curry goes to 8
@mikethesnow said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@sidbarret said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@act-crusader funny you'd say that, I actually think they got the loose-trio wrong. Curry I agree with, but not so much the other two.
I don't see what the Lawes selection brings, for all the talk about his physicality and brawn I have never seen him have great game. I have been massively impressed by Beirne on tour and even in the six nations and if I had to choose between the two players it would even be close.
Conan seems like gimmick selection. Gatland wanted the best athlete he could find but I haven't seen anything so far on tour to suggest that he will be able to impose himself on the Springbok defence. I don't know if Gatland had any better options available to him.
Having said that there is now 1000 per cent chance those two are going tear it up this weekend.
Lawes is there if AWJ breaks early
He'll be warmed up and slip straight into second row.
On comes Beirne at 6
If the Lawes (Beirne), Curry, Conan combo isn't working then on comes Watson either as a direct replacement for Curry or in addition to Curry to pick up the tempo
Second scenario Watson replaces Conan and Curry goes to 8
Nail. Head. I think we’d have seen a different back row had AWJ not just been coming back from injury. Although I’m not keen on the balance of the back 5 in the forwards, I can see the rationale. If we had two 80 minute locks we’d have a much different back row. I’d like to have seen Beirne, Simmonds and then Curry/Watson.
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@sidbarret said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@bones yeah sure, but Itoje was pretty rubbish in the 6n so that isn't saying much
Odd you say that. In the two matches where pretty much the whole team went missing -v Scotland and v Ireland, Itoje was our one bright spark, belying all the excuses of either not enough rugby (Sarries boys) or too much rugby (everyone else). He did get pinged a fair bit but that was understandable if he’s the only bugger putting himself about.
@catogrande obviously you would pay closer attention than me when England is playing and saw more of the good that Itoje did, but you have be truly amazing to balance out (I think) 6 penalties in a game.
But yeah, maybe I just don't notice what Lawes brings to the team. It really would not have been issue had I not been so impressed with what I see from Beirne.
On a more general note the Lions selection was always gonna be interesting. It feels like there are very few nailed on starters, but just about everybody they brought on tour is good enough to start. The difference between their best and worst option is much smaller than on previous tours, largely because weaker players are better.
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@catogrande obviously you would pay closer attention than me when England is playing and saw more of the good that Itoje did, but you have be truly amazing to balance out (I think) 6 penalties in a game.
But yeah, maybe I just don't notice what Lawes brings to the team. It really would not have been issue had I not been so impressed with what I see from Beirne.
On a more general note the Lions selection was always gonna be interesting. It feels like there are very few nailed on starters, but just about everybody they brought on tour is good enough to start. The difference between their best and worst option is much smaller than on previous tours, largely because weaker players are better.
@sidbarret said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@catogrande obviously you would pay closer attention than me when England is playing and saw more of the good that Itoje did, but you have be truly amazing to balance out (I think) 6 penalties in a game.
But yeah, maybe I just don't notice what Lawes brings to the team. It really would not have been issue had I not been so impressed with what I see from Beirne.
On a more general note the Lions selection was always gonna be interesting. It feels like there are very few nailed on starters, but just about everybody they brought on tour is good enough to start. The difference between their best and worst option is much smaller than on previous tours, largely because weaker players are better.
I think Eddie popularised the term 'finishers'
Beirne is a better 'finisher' than Lawes.
Lawes has a very balanced, complete game.
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@catogrande obviously you would pay closer attention than me when England is playing and saw more of the good that Itoje did, but you have be truly amazing to balance out (I think) 6 penalties in a game.
But yeah, maybe I just don't notice what Lawes brings to the team. It really would not have been issue had I not been so impressed with what I see from Beirne.
On a more general note the Lions selection was always gonna be interesting. It feels like there are very few nailed on starters, but just about everybody they brought on tour is good enough to start. The difference between their best and worst option is much smaller than on previous tours, largely because weaker players are better.
@sidbarret said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@catogrande obviously you would pay closer attention than me when England is playing and saw more of the good that Itoje did, but you have be truly amazing to balance out (I think) 6 penalties in a game.>
Yeah 6 penalties is too much (Scotland game I think) but two of those were harsh in anyone’s view (downright wrong in my one-eyed opinion), so we could just as easily be talking about 4 penalties. Taking into account his role as general nuisance, the match itself and most of his colleagues taking the day off, I’d take that.
But yeah, maybe I just don't notice what Lawes brings to the team. It really would not have been issue had I not been so impressed with what I see from Beirne.>
Lawes for me is a good bench option. Very good lock and can do a good job at 6, but purely as a 6 I’d take Beirne everyday and also Navidi before Lawes.
On a more general note the Lions selection was always gonna be interesting. It feels like there are very few nailed on starters, but just about everybody they brought on tour is good enough to start. The difference between their best and worst option is much smaller than on previous tours, largely because weaker players are better.>
100%
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Cock on block prediction - I think both teams are going to surprise us with their tactics. I think the lions are going to try and play like the Boks and Boks are going play a lot wider and looser than what we are used to.
I still think think we'll see the boks box kicking a lot in their own half, we probably see more inter-passing amongst the forwards. I think we'll also see Kolisi slotting into the Vermeulen role in the middle of the pitch with Smith in the wider channels (the Kieran Read role). This suits Kolisi better and I think we might see a big game from him.
The starting lions pack will try and impose themselves on the Boks with more scrumming for penalties and mauling. I don't think they are suited to big multi-phase attacks against this Springbok defence, but with Biggar, Daly and Hogg think they will try to get the ball wide with strike moves designed to score off first and second phase.
If the big strike play is stopped, I think they will be happy to kick long rather than endlessly recycling the ball. South Africa will of course kick it back, so expect a lot ping pong.
I really hope both teams can keep their discipline and we don't see anyone sent off. The most likely player to get into trouble for South Africa is Elstadt (who should not be in the team because he is shit).
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Cock on block prediction - I think both teams are going to surprise us with their tactics. I think the lions are going to try and play like the Boks and Boks are going play a lot wider and looser than what we are used to.
I still think think we'll see the boks box kicking a lot in their own half, we probably see more inter-passing amongst the forwards. I think we'll also see Kolisi slotting into the Vermeulen role in the middle of the pitch with Smith in the wider channels (the Kieran Read role). This suits Kolisi better and I think we might see a big game from him.
The starting lions pack will try and impose themselves on the Boks with more scrumming for penalties and mauling. I don't think they are suited to big multi-phase attacks against this Springbok defence, but with Biggar, Daly and Hogg think they will try to get the ball wide with strike moves designed to score off first and second phase.
If the big strike play is stopped, I think they will be happy to kick long rather than endlessly recycling the ball. South Africa will of course kick it back, so expect a lot ping pong.
I really hope both teams can keep their discipline and we don't see anyone sent off. The most likely player to get into trouble for South Africa is Elstadt (who should not be in the team because he is shit).
@sidbarret said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
Cock on block prediction - I think both teams are going to surprise us with their tactics. I think the lions are going to try and play like the Boks and Boks are going play a lot wider and looser than what we are used to.
I still think think we'll see the boks box kicking a lot in their own half, we probably see more inter-passing amongst the forwards. I think we'll also see Kolisi slotting into the Vermeulen role in the middle of the pitch with Smith in the wider channels (the Kieran Read role). This suits Kolisi better and I think we might see a big game from him.
The starting lions pack will try and impose themselves on the Boks with more scrumming for penalties and mauling. I don't think they are suited to big multi-phase attacks against this Springbok defence, but with Biggar, Daly and Hogg think they will try to get the ball wide with strike moves designed to score off first and second phase.
If the big strike play is stopped, I think they will be happy to kick long rather than endlessly recycling the ball. South Africa will of course kick it back, so expect a lot ping pong.
I really hope both teams can keep their discipline and we don't see anyone sent off. The most likely player to get into trouble for South Africa is Elstadt (who should not be in the team because he is shit).
Agree with the style of play
Boks 17 - 13 BIL
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BIL by 6
22-16
@act-crusader said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
BIL by 6
22-16
I have weird feeling that game is not going to be close - something like 32 - 12, but fucked if I know who is going to score the 32.
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@mikethesnow I get that he offers versatility, but if he is there to cover lock, is he really the next best that lions have and could he not do that from the bench?
Watson is another interesting one. He obviously offers a lot carrying and pilfering the ball, but does he have the stopping power to win the gain line? I know it is just one instance, but in the second sharks game the sharks ran lock at him off line out for a massive gain. If the lions can open up the game he can be great for them, but if bok bench get roll on late in the game I fear he could be targeted.
@sidbarret said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@mikethesnow I get that he offers versatility, but if he is there to cover lock, is he really the next best that lions have and could he not do that from the bench?
Watson is another interesting one. He obviously offers a lot carrying and pilfering the ball, but does he have the stopping power to win the gain line? I know it is just one instance, but in the second sharks game the sharks ran lock at him off line out for a massive gain. If the lions can open up the game he can be great for them, but if bok bench get roll on late in the game I fear he could be targeted.
Isn't Kwagga Smith starting for the Boks? Surely Watson can get the same amount of go forward
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Another factor to keep in mind is the refereeing - Berry is for me the best of the referees in this series. I really don't like O'Keefe (too random) and know nothing Raynal other than being French which does not instill much confidence.
The way the maul is refereed is going to be very contentious with South Africa either complaining about players being in on the side or the Lions supporters wondering why they are being penalized. The way it is being refereed at the moment is really dogs breakfast and the sooner world rugby sorts it out the better.
