Chiefs vs Highlanders

taniwharugby

and yet here you are, 23 hours after the fact stil throwing your opinion about....very, argument like.
 
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="578060" data-time="1462691970">
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No I don't want to argue with a rugby man who changes his team because he doesn't like a coach
 
I don't want to argue that a ball hitting a shoulder is juggling or that Dixon was in possession when tackled
 
I don't want to argue that assuming someone will catch a ball and then flipping him is an accident that should carry no censure
 
I'll just stick to what the people in the rugby industry decide and take my learnings from there. So far they've decided Ngatai committed a yellow card act of reckless play 
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Siam

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="578061" data-time="1462692220">
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and yet here you are, 23 hours after the fact stil throwing your opinion about....very, argument like.
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Ok, sure
 
Change the middle sentences to "I think" and leave it it that then
 
And stick the "throwing your opinion about" up your arse - it's an opinion forum

taniwharugby

you were the twat that came in saying he wasnt arguing while throwing his opinion out there that differed to a poster he wasnt arguing with, if you wanna keep on arguing/discussing, by all means, but dont pretend you arent and get all pissy about it.

ACT Crusader

It was interesting seeing Fekitoa kicking from hand at 2nd 5. He's known for the odd grubber from centre, but haven't really seen a clearing kick game from him. 
On the AB midfield discussion I would like to see Fekitoa at 12 and Crotty at 13 given the first shot. Ngatai/Moala could be a good backup combo.

Siam

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="578063" data-time="1462692832">
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you were the twat that came in saying he wasnt arguing while throwing his opinion out there that differed to a poster he wasnt arguing with, if you wanna keep on arguing/discussing, by all means, but dont pretend you arent and get all pissy about it.
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No need for name calling, I replied to a direct question to me.
 
I've conceded that I didn't need to use the words "I don't want to argue" as an act of goodwill
 
Calm down, all that's happened is we have differing views on an incident

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="578064" data-time="1462692917">
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It was interesting seeing Fekitoa kicking from hand at 2nd 5. He's known for the odd grubber from centre, but haven't really seen a clearing kick game from him. 
On the AB midfield discussion I would like to see Fekitoa at 12 and Crotty at 13 given the first shot. Ngatai/Moala could be a good backup combo.
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I guess it is inevitable that there will always be comparisons with Nonu, but he didnt really develop a decent kicking game for quite some time...he always had 'a' kicking game, but by the end it was pretty good in terms of execuition and when to do it.

No Quarter

Do the selectors see Ngatai and Fekitoa as 12s? Do we think that anyone but Crotty has a realistic shot at the 13 jumper?

Frank

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="577973" data-time="1462666757">
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Watch the video in real time, there was nothing Ngatai could do. Are you suggesting that if everything played out the same, but Ngatai's arms stayed down you think it would be fine? Once Dixon jumped he was always going to flip over Ngatai.
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But then Ngatai would not have been deemed to have done anything. Driving up with his arms and body was the mistake.

Gunner

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="578070" data-time="1462695883">
Do the selectors see Ngatai and Fekitoa as 12s? Do we think that anyone but Crotty has a realistic shot at the 13 jumper?</blockquote>Surely Fekitoa is a 13 first, 12 second - he just doesn't have the miles on the clock at 12 for anyone to seriously consider that its the other way round.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="578060" data-time="1462691970">
<div>
No I don't want to argue with a rugby man who changes his team because he doesn't like a coach
 
I don't want to argue that a ball hitting a shoulder is juggling or that Dixon was in possession when tackled
 
I don't want to argue that assuming someone will catch a ball and then flipping him is an accident that should carry no censure
 
I'll just stick to what the people in the rugby industry decide and take my learnings from there. So far they've decided Ngatai committed a yellow card act of reckless play 
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Are you just trolling now? I can't work it out because in all the babbling you just did you didn't exactly address the question I asked you.
 
Also, you best watch out, as you'll now be in the sights of the ad hominem police as well.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Frank" data-cid="578075" data-time="1462697447">
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But then Ngatai would not have been seemed to have done anything. Driving up with his arms and body was the mistake.
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I don't think he 'drove up' with his arms and body, it all happened too quickly.

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Gunner" data-cid="578076" data-time="1462698438">
Surely Fekitoa is a 13 first, 12 second - he just doesn't have the miles on the clock at 12 for anyone to seriously consider that its the other way round.</blockquote>He's started at both 12 and 13 for the All Blacks in his short career. So the AB selectors have seen it the other way round. 
In fact Crotty has also started in both positions for the ABs. Ngatai seems to be a 12 for the Chiefs but has played 13 this season as well. 
Will be interesting to see what the AB selectors believe each player is most suited too, unless they now feel 12 and 13 are interchangeable.

Siam

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="578078" data-time="1462698769">
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Are you just trolling now? I can't work it out because in all the babbling you just did you didn't exactly address the question I asked you.
 
Also, you best watch out, as you'll now be in the sights of the ad hominem police as well.
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Yeah perhaps I did babble (been known to happen) I like your last sentence too
 
I don't think a ball hitting you on the shoulder constitutes juggling - might be wrong but I can't see that in the laws. Suspect there must be arm or hand contact
 
Thing is, here's a lot of talk of the tackler "assuming" and "expecting" and that Ngatai wasn't at fault and I believe none of these opinions or assessments have any reference to the laws of the game.
 
I believe Dixon never had possession of the ball and Ngatai transgressed a fundamental law. I know there are instances when tacklers take the man upon the man catching the ball and that often players get tackled as they touch the ball then subsequently knock it on in the tackle if you like.
 
I also know that it's an offence to tackle someone early, and this happens, but it's also an offence to tackle someone without the ball.
 
 
I think there's a lot of making excuses and opinions bringing in all sorts of explanations that have no relevance to the laws (It all sounds like leftard talk ). Yeah sorry ref I tackled him early but I assumed he'd catch the ball, the fact that he didn't isn't really my fault now is it". "Oh ok then play on" :think:
 
Not sure why it isn't as simple as Ngatai getting shit wrong like Emery and the Stormer did
 
If you can find the laws that say you can take out a man not in possession in loose play, based on expectation then I'll happily concede, but with all due respect I'll build my knowledge through the people paid to uphold the laws rather than 40 year old TV watching Chiefs fans

Stargazer

Just tweeted by Radio Sport:
 
"SANZAAR has confirmed no further action will be taken over Charlie Ngatai's tackle in last night's Chiefs v Highlanders match."
 
 
Edit: If I'm correct, that means that SANZAAR is of the opinion that it was not a red-card offence, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't agree with a yellow card.

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="578086" data-time="1462700562">Yeah perhaps I did babble (been known to happen) I like your last sentence too 
 
I don't think a ball hitting you on the shoulder constitutes juggling - might be wrong but I can't see that in the laws. Suspect there must be arm or hand contact 
 
Thing is, here's a lot of talk of the tackler "assuming" and "expecting" and that Ngatai wasn't at fault and I believe none of these opinions or assessments have any reference to the laws of the game. 
 I believe Dixon never had possession of the ball and Ngatai transgressed a fundamental law. I know there are instances when tacklers take the man upon the man catching the ball and that often players get tackled as they touch the ball then subsequently knock it on in the tackle if you like. 
 
I also know that it's an offence to tackle someone early, and this happens, but it's also an offence to tackle someone without the ball. 
 
 
I think there's a lot of making excuses and opinions bringing in all sorts of explanations that have no relevance to the laws (It all sounds like leftard talk ). Yeah sorry ref I tackled him early but I assumed he'd catch the ball, the fact that he didn't isn't really my fault now is it". "Oh ok then play on" :think: 
 
Not sure why it isn't as simple as Ngatai getting shit wrong like Emery and the Stormer did 
 
If you can find the laws that say you can take out a man not in possession in loose play, based on expectation then I'll happily concede, but with all due respect I'll build my knowledge through the people paid to uphold the laws rather than 40 year old TV watching Chiefs fans</blockquote>
 
99 times out of a hundred Dixon catches that ball, and Ngatais timing of hitting him a split second after he catches the ball is impeccable, but on the one occasion he doesn't, the coaching manual of Siam says Ngatai should step back, wait to confirm Ngatai catches the ball before attempting to tackle him, instincts be damned! 
I might be wrong, but you seem the lone wolf on the 'tackled without the ball' angle.

Crucial

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Stargazer" data-cid="578090" data-time="1462701545">Just tweeted by Radio Sport: 
"SANZAAR has confirmed no further action will be taken over Charlie Ngatai's tackle in last night's Chiefs v Highlanders match." 
Edit: If I'm correct, that means that SANZAAR is of the opinion that it was not a red-card offence, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't agree with a yellow card.</blockquote>
 
Means that the citing officer doesn't see that it should have been red. 
Will be interesting to see if the Chiefs appeal the yellow though as happened with Lowe last year. Although I think this can only happen after being called up to face the JO after three YCs. 
Lowe's YC for Fekitoa jumping into his tackle was wiped as was one of his YCs for tackling a player in the air IIRC.

Siam

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="578095" data-time="1462703607">
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99 times out of a hundred Dixon catches that ball, and Ngatais timing of hitting him a split second after he catches the ball is impeccable, but on the one occasion he doesn't, the coaching manual of Siam says Ngatai should step back, wait to confirm Ngatai catches the ball before attempting to tackle him, instincts be damned! 
I might be wrong, but you seem the lone wolf on the 'tackled without the ball' angle.
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I see players waiting for people to catch bombs all the time.
 
I'm ok if I'm wrong, being in a majority doesn't assure correctness. I'll stick to the rule book to learn about the game rather than relying on probability, assumptions and expectations
 
Appreciate your point of view though.
 
I haven't written a coaching manual. We'll see if the people paid to know the game rescind his yellow and clear his record

Crucial

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="578086" data-time="1462700562">
If you can find the laws that say you can take out a man not in possession in loose play, based on expectation then I'll happily concede, but with all due respect I'll build my knowledge through the people paid to uphold the laws rather than 40 year old TV watching Chiefs fans</blockquote>
 
Here's the funny thing though. You are confusing the laws as they are written with the laws as they are upheld. 
This incident is being discussed on a rugby refs forum as well with a similar disparity of conclusions as here. Not one ref is concerned about possession though.

Toddy

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
 
"Naturally it was raised by the Citing Commissioner but (it was) felt there were enough elements out his (Ngatai's) control that it didn't meet red card threshold. On field yellow was appropriate," a Sanzaar spokesman said.
</blockquote>
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/79754907/yellow-card-sufficient-punishment-for-charlie-ngatai-says-sanzaar'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/79754907/yellow-card-sufficient-punishment-for-charlie-ngatai-says-sanzaar</a>
 
Actually seems like a pretty sensible response from Sanzaar.

reprobate

bloody hell, chiefs fans have made this hard reading.
i am totally opposed to what has happened re the freedom with which cards are given out these days - anyone care or remember the lasting shame which used to go alongside receiving a red card??
having said that, this one is in no way inconsistent with what has been happening recently. so no issue at all.
 
it was bad luck, it was accidental. it was dangerous. ngatai could have pulled out more effectively and made it safer. ngatai didn't know what was going on. his ignorance is no excuse. dixon never had control of the ball (in fact i don't think he ever even attempted to catch it). all of these things are true, but so what.

The Silver Fern

Chiefs vs Highlanders