Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pieter-Steph_du_Toit
The Jaapies already outmuscled us - and they've got Big Pieter-Steph still to come.
We don't have a hulking big bugger like that - except maybe Stupid Shannon.
@chris-b said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pieter-Steph_du_Toit
The Jaapies already outmuscled us - and they've got Big Pieter-Steph still to come.
We don't have a hulking big bugger like that - except maybe Stupid Shannon.
Shannon appears to be 1cm taller than Akira and 5 kg lighter (108kg to Akira's 113). Shannon doesn't stand out as a monster, lighter than Blackadder (111kg) too.
Hmm maybe I should list them
from https://www.allblacks.com/teams/all-blacks/ (ABs site)
but where I think the data is old I have replaced with Wikipedia, and ordered by weight (heft) rather than by height.
Name Weight Height Age
At 6
Akira Ioane 113, 1.94*, 26
Ethan Blackadder 111,1.90, 26
Luke Jacobson 107, 1.91, 24
Shannon Frizell 108, 1.95, 27
At 7
Dalton Papalli 113, 1.93, 24
Sam Cane 103, 1.89, 29
Ardie Savea 102 (Canes site, 99 on ABs site), 1.88 (AB:1.9), 28*
At 8
Luke Jacobson 107, 1.91, 24
Hoskins Sotutu 106, 1.93, 23
Ardie Savea 102 (not 99?), 1.88 (Canes sites but 1.9 on ABs site), 28*Looks to me like Wikipedia is more accurate for Akira (agrees with https://blues.rugby/players/akira-ioane/.
**ABs site looks too tall and light for Ardie, he definitely isn't the same height (1.9?!) as Akira (more likely 1.88 compared to 1.94)!Ok the Boks loose forwards will almost always be heavier if Duane or Jasper are playing, but they really aren't hugely more massive/taller unless PST is playing, and, well, I don't think anyone is calling for SB to go back to 6?
Jerome Kaino may have been 1.96m tall or so but if at 109-110kg would have been slightly lighter than Akira, Ethan, and Dalton P.
Boks (please help me if I get this wrong):
https://www.springboks.rugby/sa-teams-players/springboks/
Flankers (SA 6 and 7s)
Piter Steph-du Toit 120kg, 2m, 29 (plays at 7, but SA 7) but not in the current squad and really, he is a lock, isn't he?
Marco van Staden, 110, 1.84, 24
Siya Kolis 107, 1.86, 30
Kwagga Smith, 95, 1.8, 27
8
Duane Vermeulen 117kg 1.93m, 35
Jasper Wiese 118, 1.9, 26 (or flanker) -
@chris-b said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pieter-Steph_du_Toit
The Jaapies already outmuscled us - and they've got Big Pieter-Steph still to come.
We don't have a hulking big bugger like that - except maybe Stupid Shannon.
Shannon appears to be 1cm taller than Akira and 5 kg lighter (108kg to Akira's 113). Shannon doesn't stand out as a monster, lighter than Blackadder (111kg) too.
Hmm maybe I should list them
from https://www.allblacks.com/teams/all-blacks/ (ABs site)
but where I think the data is old I have replaced with Wikipedia, and ordered by weight (heft) rather than by height.
Name Weight Height Age
At 6
Akira Ioane 113, 1.94*, 26
Ethan Blackadder 111,1.90, 26
Luke Jacobson 107, 1.91, 24
Shannon Frizell 108, 1.95, 27
At 7
Dalton Papalli 113, 1.93, 24
Sam Cane 103, 1.89, 29
Ardie Savea 102 (Canes site, 99 on ABs site), 1.88 (AB:1.9), 28*
At 8
Luke Jacobson 107, 1.91, 24
Hoskins Sotutu 106, 1.93, 23
Ardie Savea 102 (not 99?), 1.88 (Canes sites but 1.9 on ABs site), 28*Looks to me like Wikipedia is more accurate for Akira (agrees with https://blues.rugby/players/akira-ioane/.
**ABs site looks too tall and light for Ardie, he definitely isn't the same height (1.9?!) as Akira (more likely 1.88 compared to 1.94)!Ok the Boks loose forwards will almost always be heavier if Duane or Jasper are playing, but they really aren't hugely more massive/taller unless PST is playing, and, well, I don't think anyone is calling for SB to go back to 6?
Jerome Kaino may have been 1.96m tall or so but if at 109-110kg would have been slightly lighter than Akira, Ethan, and Dalton P.
Boks (please help me if I get this wrong):
https://www.springboks.rugby/sa-teams-players/springboks/
Flankers (SA 6 and 7s)
Piter Steph-du Toit 120kg, 2m, 29 (plays at 7, but SA 7) but not in the current squad and really, he is a lock, isn't he?
Marco van Staden, 110, 1.84, 24
Siya Kolis 107, 1.86, 30
Kwagga Smith, 95, 1.8, 27
8
Duane Vermeulen 117kg 1.93m, 35
Jasper Wiese 118, 1.9, 26 (or flanker) -
@act-crusader said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
J. Barrett, Reece, R. Ioane
Havili, ALB
Weber, Mo’ungaBench: Perenara, B. Barrett, W. Jordan
Am not sure I believe you ... none of the bolded have Canterbury or Crusaders links I'maware of ...
@booboo said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@act-crusader said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
J. Barrett, Reece, R. Ioane
Havili, ALB
Weber, Mo’ungaBench: Perenara, B. Barrett, W. Jordan
Am not sure I believe you ... none of the bolded have Canterbury or Crusaders links unaware of ...
A few tokens out there, although I could’ve named Ennor and Bridge just to fire up a few on here….
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@nostrildamus Wieser is surprising there. Definitely doesn't look like a big loosie to me.
@bones said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@nostrildamus Wieser is surprising there. Definitely doesn't look like a big loosie to me.
Yes, from Boks website https://www.springboks.rugby/sa-teams-players/springboks/
but elsewhere I see him listed as 110kg. -
@chris-b oh I'm far from thrilled that FC is next best, but TJP is so far off the mark it's not funny. To come on in an annihilation and be that much worse than FC really says something for me.
Still, wouldn't be at all surprised if he's on the beach.
@bones while I agree he has slipped hard to judge anyone in an annihilation. It was not even a test and those kind of games make a good player look bad. I think the only person who stood out to me was Tupea and I hope he is on the bench, though unlikely, in the upcoming games.
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@chris-b said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pieter-Steph_du_Toit
The Jaapies already outmuscled us - and they've got Big Pieter-Steph still to come.
We don't have a hulking big bugger like that - except maybe Stupid Shannon.
Shannon appears to be 1cm taller than Akira and 5 kg lighter (108kg to Akira's 113). Shannon doesn't stand out as a monster, lighter than Blackadder (111kg) too.
Hmm maybe I should list them
from https://www.allblacks.com/teams/all-blacks/ (ABs site)
but where I think the data is old I have replaced with Wikipedia, and ordered by weight (heft) rather than by height.
Name Weight Height Age
At 6
Akira Ioane 113, 1.94*, 26
Ethan Blackadder 111,1.90, 26
Luke Jacobson 107, 1.91, 24
Shannon Frizell 108, 1.95, 27
At 7
Dalton Papalli 113, 1.93, 24
Sam Cane 103, 1.89, 29
Ardie Savea 102 (Canes site, 99 on ABs site), 1.88 (AB:1.9), 28*
At 8
Luke Jacobson 107, 1.91, 24
Hoskins Sotutu 106, 1.93, 23
Ardie Savea 102 (not 99?), 1.88 (Canes sites but 1.9 on ABs site), 28*Looks to me like Wikipedia is more accurate for Akira (agrees with https://blues.rugby/players/akira-ioane/.
**ABs site looks too tall and light for Ardie, he definitely isn't the same height (1.9?!) as Akira (more likely 1.88 compared to 1.94)!Ok the Boks loose forwards will almost always be heavier if Duane or Jasper are playing, but they really aren't hugely more massive/taller unless PST is playing, and, well, I don't think anyone is calling for SB to go back to 6?
Jerome Kaino may have been 1.96m tall or so but if at 109-110kg would have been slightly lighter than Akira, Ethan, and Dalton P.
Boks (please help me if I get this wrong):
https://www.springboks.rugby/sa-teams-players/springboks/
Flankers (SA 6 and 7s)
Piter Steph-du Toit 120kg, 2m, 29 (plays at 7, but SA 7) but not in the current squad and really, he is a lock, isn't he?
Marco van Staden, 110, 1.84, 24
Siya Kolis 107, 1.86, 30
Kwagga Smith, 95, 1.8, 27
8
Duane Vermeulen 117kg 1.93m, 35
Jasper Wiese 118, 1.9, 26 (or flanker)@nostrildamus Sterling work, but lots of those - weights especially are terribly wrong.
Frizell is a 6 who can play lock as compared to Ethan Blackadder who is a 6 who can play 7.
Watching them play together for the Mako there's no doubt that Shannon is significantly bigger.
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@bones said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@bovidae said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
Laulala at least offers you a solid scrum.
Does he though? I feel like his scrum prowess grows, the less he offers about the park. Very similar to Franks.
I do think the scrum is better with Laulala at TH. I've been critical of him around the field though (e.g. lazy offsides, very little metres as a ball carrier). The problem is that Tu'ungafasi has also looked like Franks with the ball in hand since his return. Describing him as passive would be too kind.
And speaking of props, Moody needs to step up too.
@bovidae said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@bones said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@bovidae said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
Laulala at least offers you a solid scrum.
Does he though? I feel like his scrum prowess grows, the less he offers about the park. Very similar to Franks.
I do think the scrum is better with Laulala at TH. I've been critical of him around the field though (e.g. lazy offsides, very little metres as a ball carrier). The problem is that Tu'ungafasi has also looked like Franks with the ball in hand since his return. Describing him as passive would be too kind.
And speaking of props, Moody needs to step up too.
DeGroot agrees with you, says Nepo is the 'best in the world' (huge call)
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posted in different thread on how to watch in Aus, but interesting that no Eng based players will be available for Wales
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-rugby-boss-defends-decisions-21886031
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@nostrildamus Sterling work, but lots of those - weights especially are terribly wrong.
Frizell is a 6 who can play lock as compared to Ethan Blackadder who is a 6 who can play 7.
Watching them play together for the Mako there's no doubt that Shannon is significantly bigger.
@chris-b I don't disagree with you! I think the official All Blacks site should at least try to keep up with the changing weights.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/the-weight-evolution-of-the-all-blacks-supersize-only/4HPU2E37QCK74SXVOKDNBJSEJY/ -
posted in different thread on how to watch in Aus, but interesting that no Eng based players will be available for Wales
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-rugby-boss-defends-decisions-21886031
@bayimports said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
posted in different thread on how to watch in Aus, but interesting that no Eng based players will be available for Wales
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-rugby-boss-defends-decisions-21886031
See original post #booboo
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@bayimports said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
posted in different thread on how to watch in Aus, but interesting that no Eng based players will be available for Wales
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-rugby-boss-defends-decisions-21886031
See original post #booboo
@machpants said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@bayimports said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
posted in different thread on how to watch in Aus, but interesting that no Eng based players will be available for Wales
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-rugby-boss-defends-decisions-21886031
See original post #booboo
That would mean breaking a fern tradition and reading from the start
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@chris-b I don't disagree with you! I think the official All Blacks site should at least try to keep up with the changing weights.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/the-weight-evolution-of-the-all-blacks-supersize-only/4HPU2E37QCK74SXVOKDNBJSEJY/@nostrildamus Yeah - I said earlier this year that they should have to have an annual weigh-in.
I've read that Gregor Paul article before, but it's well worth a re-read. I think he's got the weights very accurate.
An interesting point is that even since it was written, there's been some scaling up. Insofar as you can believe their weights, Papali'i and Blackadder are playing openside at 111-113kg.
Pretty sure the props have scaled up a bit - 120kgs is smallish now - and guys like Tamaiti Williams are on the horizon.
Samisoni looks a bigger hooker to me than our others.
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@nostrildamus Yeah - I said earlier this year that they should have to have an annual weigh-in.
I've read that Gregor Paul article before, but it's well worth a re-read. I think he's got the weights very accurate.
An interesting point is that even since it was written, there's been some scaling up. Insofar as you can believe their weights, Papali'i and Blackadder are playing openside at 111-113kg.
Pretty sure the props have scaled up a bit - 120kgs is smallish now - and guys like Tamaiti Williams are on the horizon.
Samisoni looks a bigger hooker to me than our others.
@chris-b said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@nostrildamus Yeah - I said earlier this year that they should have to have an annual weigh-in.
I've read that Gregor Paul article before, but it's well worth a re-read. I think he's got the weights very accurate.
An interesting point is that even since it was written, there's been some scaling up. Insofar as you can believe their weights, Papali'i and Blackadder are playing openside at 111-113kg.
Pretty sure the props have scaled up a bit - 120kgs is smallish now - and guys like Tamaiti Williams are on the horizon.
Samisoni looks a bigger hooker to me than our others.
I would say that our S&C coach has been tasked with adding bulk and power to some players over a few years and the selectors will take that into consideration as well e.g. Lord's training reports would probably have indicated the room the S&C team feel he has in him.
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@nostrildamus Sterling work, but lots of those - weights especially are terribly wrong.
Frizell is a 6 who can play lock as compared to Ethan Blackadder who is a 6 who can play 7.
Watching them play together for the Mako there's no doubt that Shannon is significantly bigger.
@chris-b said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@nostrildamus Sterling work, but lots of those - weights especially are terribly wrong.
Frizell is a 6 who can play lock as compared to Ethan Blackadder who is a 6 who can play 7.
Watching them play together for the Mako there's no doubt that Shannon is significantly bigger.
Blackadder plays bigger than that soft pea.
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@bones Maybe with some people.
TJ has been flirting with other options though and refer Cully's book for people not taking their demotions well.
@chris-b said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@bones Maybe with some people.
TJ has been flirting with other options though and refer Cully's book for people not taking their demotions well.
So you're saying his experience amounts to nothing?
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@chris-b said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@nostrildamus Sterling work, but lots of those - weights especially are terribly wrong.
Frizell is a 6 who can play lock as compared to Ethan Blackadder who is a 6 who can play 7.
Watching them play together for the Mako there's no doubt that Shannon is significantly bigger.
Blackadder plays bigger than that soft pea.
@nepia said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@chris-b said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@nostrildamus Sterling work, but lots of those - weights especially are terribly wrong.
Frizell is a 6 who can play lock as compared to Ethan Blackadder who is a 6 who can play 7.
Watching them play together for the Mako there's no doubt that Shannon is significantly bigger.
Blackadder plays bigger than that soft pea.
YUP!
Seems to me Jacobson and Cane are two of the most impactful tacklers, and sometimes Akira..
Then Paps.. Blackadder is good too.
Sotutu is usually quite effective if not dominant.
And Ardie is usually 7 or 8.
I'm not sure which one of them clearly has less impact / is less dominant than Frizell? I'm just not sure who he should replace in order to make the loose forwards more physically dominant.I'd suggest the problem with the loose forwards is less their relative size and power (especially at 6) than how well they work together. Still in fits and starts.
However, if you want a player who is taller than Shannon, can play lock, voted MVP, and gets around the field, the ABs could always use more facial hair and more ginga ninja...
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@nepia said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@chris-b said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@nostrildamus Sterling work, but lots of those - weights especially are terribly wrong.
Frizell is a 6 who can play lock as compared to Ethan Blackadder who is a 6 who can play 7.
Watching them play together for the Mako there's no doubt that Shannon is significantly bigger.
Blackadder plays bigger than that soft pea.
YUP!
Seems to me Jacobson and Cane are two of the most impactful tacklers, and sometimes Akira..
Then Paps.. Blackadder is good too.
Sotutu is usually quite effective if not dominant.
And Ardie is usually 7 or 8.
I'm not sure which one of them clearly has less impact / is less dominant than Frizell? I'm just not sure who he should replace in order to make the loose forwards more physically dominant.I'd suggest the problem with the loose forwards is less their relative size and power (especially at 6) than how well they work together. Still in fits and starts.
However, if you want a player who is taller than Shannon, can play lock, voted MVP, and gets around the field, the ABs could always use more facial hair and more ginga ninja...
@nostrildamus Hansen clearly thought he'd struck the optimal combination with McCaw, Kaino and Read - and I think he was not far wrong.
With Cane especially, he had a like for like - but, he was clearly searching for Kaino MkII - with Squire, Fifita, Frizell and eventually Scott Barrett.
We are struggling with finding that really big third man to replace Kaino, so I'm all in favour of Robinson getting a run.
Even though he's playing 6, I think Akira is more Read than Kaino.
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@nostrildamus Yeah - I said earlier this year that they should have to have an annual weigh-in.
I've read that Gregor Paul article before, but it's well worth a re-read. I think he's got the weights very accurate.
An interesting point is that even since it was written, there's been some scaling up. Insofar as you can believe their weights, Papali'i and Blackadder are playing openside at 111-113kg.
Pretty sure the props have scaled up a bit - 120kgs is smallish now - and guys like Tamaiti Williams are on the horizon.
Samisoni looks a bigger hooker to me than our others.
@chris-b said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@nostrildamus Yeah - I said earlier this year that they should have to have an annual weigh-in.
I've read that Gregor Paul article before, but it's well worth a re-read. I think he's got the weights very accurate.
An interesting point is that even since it was written, there's been some scaling up. Insofar as you can believe their weights, Papali'i and Blackadder are playing openside at 111-113kg.
Pretty sure the props have scaled up a bit - 120kgs is smallish now - and guys like Tamaiti Williams are on the horizon.
Samisoni looks a bigger hooker to me than our others.
I doubt very much that Todds son would weigh that much. He’s pretty rangy and not amazingly tall.
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@chris-b said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@nostrildamus Yeah - I said earlier this year that they should have to have an annual weigh-in.
I've read that Gregor Paul article before, but it's well worth a re-read. I think he's got the weights very accurate.
An interesting point is that even since it was written, there's been some scaling up. Insofar as you can believe their weights, Papali'i and Blackadder are playing openside at 111-113kg.
Pretty sure the props have scaled up a bit - 120kgs is smallish now - and guys like Tamaiti Williams are on the horizon.
Samisoni looks a bigger hooker to me than our others.
I doubt very much that Todds son would weigh that much. He’s pretty rangy and not amazingly tall.
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@nostrildamus Hansen clearly thought he'd struck the optimal combination with McCaw, Kaino and Read - and I think he was not far wrong.
With Cane especially, he had a like for like - but, he was clearly searching for Kaino MkII - with Squire, Fifita, Frizell and eventually Scott Barrett.
We are struggling with finding that really big third man to replace Kaino, so I'm all in favour of Robinson getting a run.
Even though he's playing 6, I think Akira is more Read than Kaino.
@chris-b said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@nostrildamus Hansen clearly thought he'd struck the optimal combination with McCaw, Kaino and Read - and I think he was not far wrong.
With Cane especially, he had a like for like - but, he was clearly searching for Kaino MkII - with Squire, Fifita, Frizell and eventually Scott Barrett.
Agreed.
We are struggling with finding that really big third man to replace Kaino, so I'm all in favour of Robinson getting a run.
Cool, all onboard the 6 mystery bus!
Even though he's playing 6, I think Akira is more Read than Kaino.
Funny you say that, I'd be tempted to play Akira at 8 and/or only for 30-50 minutes against the more physical forwards. He seems to concentrate (enter superhero mode) in bursts but especially at 6 we need an 80 minutes work ethic/single focus I think.
