England vs Springbokke
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@pakman definitely - or if this team was just more used to creating opportunities. The pass was a poor option under circumstances. Imagine being the last defender there, you are going to trip him up, but not win the contact.
Hold on, get the five meter post contact meters and we are in...
@sidbarret said in England vs Springbokke:
@pakman definitely - or if this team was just more used to creating opportunities. The pass was a poor option under circumstances. Imagine being the last defender there, you are going to trip him up, but not win the contact.
Hold on, get the five meter post contact meters and we are in...
I don't get it Sid. At times, when the Boks go through phases and win contact, they create the gaps through sheer physicality. And then, when they need to be calm, they fail to do the basics and end up bombing really good positions and opportunities. They had the ref on their side as they had the momentum in the 2nd half, hence the penalty count.
Tiredness = bad decisions at the end?
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@pakman definitely - or if this team was just more used to creating opportunities. The pass was a poor option under circumstances. Imagine being the last defender there, you are going to trip him up, but not win the contact.
Hold on, get the five meter post contact meters and we are in...
@sidbarret said in England vs Springbokke:
@pakman definitely - or if this team was just more used to creating opportunities. The pass was a poor option under circumstances. Imagine being the last defender there, you are going to trip him up, but not win the contact.
Hold on, get the five meter post contact meters and we are in...
To be fair EE made so many yards he was in virgin territory!
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@junior also the problem wasn't the lack of points, it was the soft points conceded. Poor defence lost that game
@sidbarret said in England vs Springbokke:
@junior also the problem wasn't the lack of points, it was the soft points conceded. Poor defence lost that game
The vaunted SA defence does that at times. If you look at most of SA's losses in last 4 years, they normally win the possession and territory yet their defensive system can be stressed to breaking point.
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These games hurt so much.
Replay it 10 time and we don't lose many of the them. And it wasn't the reffing. Just tiny margins, so many tiny margins.
Congrats England, you played your game well, neutralising our strength.
Go and play like this in the six nations and where ever your touring next year and you'll have a lot of success.
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@frye said in England vs Springbokke:
@billy-tell said in England vs Springbokke:
@frye said in England vs Springbokke:
@billy-tell said in England vs Springbokke:
@frye said in England vs Springbokke:
@sidbarret said in England vs Springbokke:
@frye also correct, which further shows the protocols are wrong
Nah. It was a reckless swinging arm from some clumsy, journeyman oaf. Falling players happen all the time. You cant just cock and fire your arm at chest height and then be surprised that you happen to catch them in the head occasionally because they'd already been tackled (which said oaf must have realized was happening, unless he's even more clumsy than I've given him credit for).
Totally disagree. It was absolutely the right call.
Depends how seriously people are about the game continuing I guess. The more we learn about CTE, the less likely it will.
The problem with modern rugby is that it’s a contact sport and contact happens. The guy starts his tackle and ezebeth slips into the tackle. That’s life, physics etc. Not a card sanction.
And for those of us that have played the game to a higher standard than beer league, you can anticipate that the tackle you will be making is an assist tackle. So you adapt accordingly.
How exactly was Ewels supposed to change his position when Etzebeth whipped round and down into his tackle in a split second? It wasn't a swinging arm. He was wrapping into a tackle.
@stodders said in England vs Springbokke:
@frye said in England vs Springbokke:
@billy-tell said in England vs Springbokke:
@frye said in England vs Springbokke:
@billy-tell said in England vs Springbokke:
@frye said in England vs Springbokke:
@sidbarret said in England vs Springbokke:
@frye also correct, which further shows the protocols are wrong
Nah. It was a reckless swinging arm from some clumsy, journeyman oaf. Falling players happen all the time. You cant just cock and fire your arm at chest height and then be surprised that you happen to catch them in the head occasionally because they'd already been tackled (which said oaf must have realized was happening, unless he's even more clumsy than I've given him credit for).
Totally disagree. It was absolutely the right call.
Depends how seriously people are about the game continuing I guess. The more we learn about CTE, the less likely it will.
The problem with modern rugby is that it’s a contact sport and contact happens. The guy starts his tackle and ezebeth slips into the tackle. That’s life, physics etc. Not a card sanction.
And for those of us that have played the game to a higher standard than beer league, you can anticipate that the tackle you will be making is an assist tackle. So you adapt accordingly.
How exactly was Ewels supposed to change his position when Etzebeth whipped round and down into his tackle in a split second? It wasn't a swinging arm. He was wrapping into a tackle.
Except the initial collision sent him Ewels direction. Not away from him. Was definitely a swinging arm.
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These games hurt so much.
Replay it 10 time and we don't lose many of the them. And it wasn't the reffing. Just tiny margins, so many tiny margins.
Congrats England, you played your game well, neutralising our strength.
Go and play like this in the six nations and where ever your touring next year and you'll have a lot of success.
@sidbarret said in England vs Springbokke:
These games hurt so much.
Replay it 10 time and we don't lose many of the them. And it wasn't the reffing. Just tiny margins, so many tiny margins.
Congrats England, you played your game well, neutralising our strength.
Go and play like this in the six nations and where ever your touring next year and you'll have a lot of success.
Small margins indeed. Boks are in a decent place right now. 2 years out from world cup, their plan A is v impressive. But Plan B is a work in progress.
Which Bok players may not make next WC? Vermeulen being the big name for me. He's the best no 8 in world right now IMO.
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@stodders said in England vs Springbokke:
@frye said in England vs Springbokke:
@billy-tell said in England vs Springbokke:
@frye said in England vs Springbokke:
@billy-tell said in England vs Springbokke:
@frye said in England vs Springbokke:
@sidbarret said in England vs Springbokke:
@frye also correct, which further shows the protocols are wrong
Nah. It was a reckless swinging arm from some clumsy, journeyman oaf. Falling players happen all the time. You cant just cock and fire your arm at chest height and then be surprised that you happen to catch them in the head occasionally because they'd already been tackled (which said oaf must have realized was happening, unless he's even more clumsy than I've given him credit for).
Totally disagree. It was absolutely the right call.
Depends how seriously people are about the game continuing I guess. The more we learn about CTE, the less likely it will.
The problem with modern rugby is that it’s a contact sport and contact happens. The guy starts his tackle and ezebeth slips into the tackle. That’s life, physics etc. Not a card sanction.
And for those of us that have played the game to a higher standard than beer league, you can anticipate that the tackle you will be making is an assist tackle. So you adapt accordingly.
How exactly was Ewels supposed to change his position when Etzebeth whipped round and down into his tackle in a split second? It wasn't a swinging arm. He was wrapping into a tackle.
Except the initial collision sent him Ewels direction. Not away from him. Was definitely a swinging arm.
@frye said in England vs Springbokke:
@stodders said in England vs Springbokke:
@frye said in England vs Springbokke:
@billy-tell said in England vs Springbokke:
@frye said in England vs Springbokke:
@billy-tell said in England vs Springbokke:
@frye said in England vs Springbokke:
@sidbarret said in England vs Springbokke:
@frye also correct, which further shows the protocols are wrong
Nah. It was a reckless swinging arm from some clumsy, journeyman oaf. Falling players happen all the time. You cant just cock and fire your arm at chest height and then be surprised that you happen to catch them in the head occasionally because they'd already been tackled (which said oaf must have realized was happening, unless he's even more clumsy than I've given him credit for).
Totally disagree. It was absolutely the right call.
Depends how seriously people are about the game continuing I guess. The more we learn about CTE, the less likely it will.
The problem with modern rugby is that it’s a contact sport and contact happens. The guy starts his tackle and ezebeth slips into the tackle. That’s life, physics etc. Not a card sanction.
And for those of us that have played the game to a higher standard than beer league, you can anticipate that the tackle you will be making is an assist tackle. So you adapt accordingly.
How exactly was Ewels supposed to change his position when Etzebeth whipped round and down into his tackle in a split second? It wasn't a swinging arm. He was wrapping into a tackle.
Except the initial collision sent him Ewels direction. Not away from him. Was definitely a swinging arm.
We're basing this off real time speed, right?
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Hats off to hand England: 3 bloody good tries to 1.
When your pack is decidedly second best. Well played.
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@billy-tell said in England vs Springbokke:
@frye said in England vs Springbokke:
@billy-tell said in England vs Springbokke:
@frye said in England vs Springbokke:
@sidbarret said in England vs Springbokke:
@frye also correct, which further shows the protocols are wrong
Nah. It was a reckless swinging arm from some clumsy, journeyman oaf. Falling players happen all the time. You cant just cock and fire your arm at chest height and then be surprised that you happen to catch them in the head occasionally because they'd already been tackled (which said oaf must have realized was happening, unless he's even more clumsy than I've given him credit for).
Totally disagree. It was absolutely the right call.
Depends how seriously people are about the game continuing I guess. The more we learn about CTE, the less likely it will.
The problem with modern rugby is that it’s a contact sport and contact happens. The guy starts his tackle and ezebeth slips into the tackle. That’s life, physics etc. Not a card sanction.
And for those of us that have played the game to a higher standard than beer league, you can anticipate that the tackle you will be making is an assist tackle. So you adapt accordingly.
@frye said in England vs Springbokke:
@billy-tell said in England vs Springbokke:
@frye said in England vs Springbokke:
@billy-tell said in England vs Springbokke:
@frye said in England vs Springbokke:
@sidbarret said in England vs Springbokke:
@frye also correct, which further shows the protocols are wrong
Nah. It was a reckless swinging arm from some clumsy, journeyman oaf. Falling players happen all the time. You cant just cock and fire your arm at chest height and then be surprised that you happen to catch them in the head occasionally because they'd already been tackled (which said oaf must have realized was happening, unless he's even more clumsy than I've given him credit for).
Totally disagree. It was absolutely the right call.
Depends how seriously people are about the game continuing I guess. The more we learn about CTE, the less likely it will.
The problem with modern rugby is that it’s a contact sport and contact happens. The guy starts his tackle and ezebeth slips into the tackle. That’s life, physics etc. Not a card sanction.
And for those of us that have played the game to a higher standard than beer league, you can anticipate that the tackle you will be making is an assist tackle. So you adapt accordingly.
Oh someone saying “look at me I’m an elite rugby player”
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@sidbarret said in England vs Springbokke:
@junior also the problem wasn't the lack of points, it was the soft points conceded. Poor defence lost that game
The vaunted SA defence does that at times. If you look at most of SA's losses in last 4 years, they normally win the possession and territory yet their defensive system can be stressed to breaking point.
@stodders said in England vs Springbokke:
@sidbarret said in England vs Springbokke:
@junior also the problem wasn't the lack of points, it was the soft points conceded. Poor defence lost that game
The vaunted SA defence does that at times. If you look at most of SA's losses in last 4 years, they normally win the possession and territory yet their defensive system can be stressed to breaking point.
It's not pressure, it is catestrophic failure that is killing them. The first two tries came from defenders not taking what England was giving them.
Nyakane and Mbonambi were poor. Reinach was poor in contact. You know you are in trouble when you start worrying everytime your two play makers have the ball (Pollard and Le Roux). I still don't get why Wiese (just why).
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@sidbarret said in England vs Springbokke:
These games hurt so much.
Replay it 10 time and we don't lose many of the them. And it wasn't the reffing. Just tiny margins, so many tiny margins.
Congrats England, you played your game well, neutralising our strength.
Go and play like this in the six nations and where ever your touring next year and you'll have a lot of success.
Small margins indeed. Boks are in a decent place right now. 2 years out from world cup, their plan A is v impressive. But Plan B is a work in progress.
Which Bok players may not make next WC? Vermeulen being the big name for me. He's the best no 8 in world right now IMO.
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@stodders yeah Vermeulen and Le Roux are the guys that will probably not make it. The problem is that they haven't grooming right guys as back ups (Roos and Gelandt in my opinion but understand if people say Fassi)
@sidbarret clinical. That's the word. SA aren't clinical enough at times. I wonder why, as the players are capable at times.
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Congrats to England for another win at Twickenham
by one lonely point 
Couple nice tries for a very decent first half but our line outs just didn fire consistently and we didn’t look settled right from that first scrum. Should have converted 2nd 40 dominance into points and DDA and Etzebeth really got through a ton of graft. Penalty count heavily in our favour but don’t think Eng can really complain ? I thought the ref was pretty clear and balanced with sealing off in first 40 as well and it set a tone. Pity that Siya pass to Kriel didn’t go to hand or Eben didn’t hang on for a bit but think the guys just lost it a bit for last 10 and paid the price. I’m def staying up for NZ v France…going to be a cracker 
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Was at Twickenham to see the game which was great but of course you don’t get the same overview that you do on TV, so I won’t comment on the technical penalties as I could discern fuck all. Fat head Ewels was lucky under current practice not to see yellow but IMO penalty was about right. Kolisi yellow was in li e with current practice but IMO not worthy of a yellow. Thems the breaks I guess.
But fuck me there seems to be some bitterness on here. SA could easily have won. Should have? Not not so much. England could easily have lost it. Should have? Not so much. For all SA’s dominance on the second half, I’d guess the stats would show a different picture. *Edit: should have stressed “in the first half”. In the first half SA were kept in the game by a series of technical penalties and errors rather than any great play of their own.
In the end it was a bloody good test match between two good sides, which could have gone either way. You know, what sport is supposed to be about.
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Was at Twickenham to see the game which was great but of course you don’t get the same overview that you do on TV, so I won’t comment on the technical penalties as I could discern fuck all. Fat head Ewels was lucky under current practice not to see yellow but IMO penalty was about right. Kolisi yellow was in li e with current practice but IMO not worthy of a yellow. Thems the breaks I guess.
But fuck me there seems to be some bitterness on here. SA could easily have won. Should have? Not not so much. England could easily have lost it. Should have? Not so much. For all SA’s dominance on the second half, I’d guess the stats would show a different picture. *Edit: should have stressed “in the first half”. In the first half SA were kept in the game by a series of technical penalties and errors rather than any great play of their own.
In the end it was a bloody good test match between two good sides, which could have gone either way. You know, what sport is supposed to be about.
@catogrande the reason why I wasn't too worried at half time was that England had four scoring chances and took three, we had six and scored off four of them. Didn't count the second half but it must be something like ten three. Problem was that we didn't hear enough from those and conceded too many off the couple chances we conceded.
Again, well done to England. They did their game much better than we did ours.
Individually we won most of the battles but England won the the big strategic moments
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Was at Twickenham to see the game which was great but of course you don’t get the same overview that you do on TV, so I won’t comment on the technical penalties as I could discern fuck all. Fat head Ewels was lucky under current practice not to see yellow but IMO penalty was about right. Kolisi yellow was in li e with current practice but IMO not worthy of a yellow. Thems the breaks I guess.
But fuck me there seems to be some bitterness on here. SA could easily have won. Should have? Not not so much. England could easily have lost it. Should have? Not so much. For all SA’s dominance on the second half, I’d guess the stats would show a different picture. *Edit: should have stressed “in the first half”. In the first half SA were kept in the game by a series of technical penalties and errors rather than any great play of their own.
In the end it was a bloody good test match between two good sides, which could have gone either way. You know, what sport is supposed to be about.
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@catogrande the reason why I wasn't too worried at half time was that England had four scoring chances and took three, we had six and scored off four of them. Didn't count the second half but it must be something like ten three. Problem was that we didn't hear enough from those and conceded too many off the couple chances we conceded.
Again, well done to England. They did their game much better than we did ours.
Individually we won most of the battles but England won the the big strategic moments
It’s not just the number of scoring chances or the percentage taken. There is also the multiple. 2x7 > 3x3. I was surprised, given SA’s forward pack that they didn’t go to the corner a bit in the first half. If one of those thee pointers had been even a five pointer…
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It’s not just the number of scoring chances or the percentage taken. There is also the multiple. 2x7 > 3x3. I was surprised, given SA’s forward pack that they didn’t go to the corner a bit in the first half. If one of those thee pointers had been even a five pointer…
@catogrande said in England vs Springbokke:
It’s not just the number of scoring chances or the percentage taken. There is also the multiple. 2x7 > 3x3. I was surprised, given SA’s forward pack that they didn’t go to the corner a bit in the first half. If one of those thee pointers had been even a five pointer…
Pollard left 6 points out there from missed penalties. I thought his 2 misses early in the 2nd half when Boks were on top gave England a lift.
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It’s not just the number of scoring chances or the percentage taken. There is also the multiple. 2x7 > 3x3. I was surprised, given SA’s forward pack that they didn’t go to the corner a bit in the first half. If one of those thee pointers had been even a five pointer…
@catogrande I thought they got the corner vs post calls largely right. They got the one from 55 so it kinda balances out against the two 45m kicks missed.
Thinking about it the drop kick Steyn missed was a huge moment (duh). Frans Steyn forty meters out, you expect better.
