Moana Pasifika vs Hurricanes
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@kiwimurph said in Moana Pasifika vs Hurricanes:
@nepia he's managed to avoid the result since Friday? Impressive.
He always manages to avoid the weekend results, as he can never watch the game until mid week when his missus is studying.
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@higgins said in Moana Pasifika vs Hurricanes:
@nzbloke said in Moana Pasifika vs Hurricanes:
@higgins said in Moana Pasifika vs Hurricanes:
@nzbloke Wellington were relegated under Mr. Boyd's stewardship in 2014, the year prior to him taking over as head coach at the Hurricanes. he certainly did not endear himself much to Lions supporters that year with his 90 percent losing record nor the -167 points differential. That was helped no end by spectacular thumpings from Northland (05 - 35) and the Tana Umaga coached Counties (07 - 55)
Earl Va'a took over in 2015 and failed to beat Hawkes Bay in either of the two games played between the sides that season and were thus consigned to a another season in the Championship Division. The 2015 season proved to the only one he held the coaching reigns at the Lions. Think he traded that role in for the 1st XV Coaching job at Scots College but my memory is a bit hazy on the time of that.
Can remember Boyd getting us through to a NPC Final, think it was 2013 ? ...pretty sure in 2014 we had a massive injury count, had to dig that deep & select club players that were well below NPC standard, because of that situation were forced into selecting a very weak team, so the head coach didn't really come into play, he basically had nothing to work with, so naturally most of the other sides were going to thrash us.
Pretty sure Earl Va'a coached the Wgtn Lions for two years, that was two years too long, the bloke was utterly useless.
Right here is your chance to sort out the well below NPC standard club players from this lot.
Six new caps in Lions squad
The Wellington Lions will have a new captain for their 2014 provincial rugby campaign with flanker Brad Shields to skipper the injury ravaged side, that includes six new caps.
There looks to be plenty of International players from NZ, Tonga, Samoa, England, Fiji and possibly Australia (Woodward?) thrown in with those that played 7s internationally and it does get me wondering which are those few club players that were so bad that this squad suddenly became "a very weak team". Their results do indicate this but that must mean the Hurricanes in particular must also be considered "very weak" given the large numbers in the 2014 Lions. Somehow the Hurricanes became world beaters very shortly afterward.
The whole point was you saying Boyd wasn't much of a coach back before he coached the Canes, he couldn't have been too bad in 2013 where he coached the Lions through to the NPC final in 2013 against Canterbury... also 2014 was about 8 years back, hard to remember all the details.
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@kiwimurph said in Moana Pasifika vs Hurricanes:
@nepia he's managed to avoid the result since Friday? Impressive.
Haven't avoided the result at all, just haven't had much time to get back lately.
In golden point time the Canes went through 12 phases deep in MP territory, the ref could have easily pinged them 3 or 4 times in front of their posts, then shortly after MP kicked the ball through to score the try, could've been a different result... if the Canes play as badly as that against the Crusaders they'll put 50 points on us.
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@nzbloke said in Moana Pasifika vs Hurricanes:
The whole point was you saying Boyd wasn't much of a coach back before he coached the Canes, he couldn't have been too bad in 2013 where he coached the Lions through to the NPC final in 2013 against Canterbury... also 2014 was about 8 years back, hard to remember all the details.
I said nothing of the sort. I was responding to your comment that Chris Boyd was the last decent coach the Hurricanes had and I was just pointing out he did have that one particular failing, which you seem to have overlooked. There was certainly no indication on how I rated Mr. Boyd's coaching ability.
Then you disparaged the Lions 2015 squad and when provided with the squad and politiely asked whch players were less than NPC standard you claim that it was eight years back and too long ago to remember all details, yet apparently not long enough ago for you to make the comment about players ability. Now your memory has been jogged you should have no problem in recalling exactly who you were referring to.
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I'm sure that Bidwell reads the fern.
Hurricanes spent years assembling a championship roster and about five minutes dismantling it
But the Hurricanes, and frankly most New Zealand franchises for that matter, no longer have the depth to roll out a competitive team of dirtrackers.
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@kiwimurph said in Moana Pasifika vs Hurricanes:
@nepia he's managed to avoid the result since Friday? Impressive.
No I watched it on Friday.
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@nzbloke I think we should be more worried about the Chiefs doing it to us this Sunday.
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@mikey07 said in Moana Pasifika vs Hurricanes:
@gt12 It pretty accurate which is very Mr Bidwell
Really? Did he get the right match? The near thing v Highlanders had the rookies brought in. Moorby and Morgan were amongst the best v MP. It was the experienced players that unperperformed. The other franchises fielded a bunch of wtg players.
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@higgins said in Moana Pasifika vs Hurricanes:
@nzbloke said in Moana Pasifika vs Hurricanes:
The whole point was you saying Boyd wasn't much of a coach back before he coached the Canes, he couldn't have been too bad in 2013 where he coached the Lions through to the NPC final in 2013 against Canterbury... also 2014 was about 8 years back, hard to remember all the details.
I said nothing of the sort. I was responding to your comment that Chris Boyd was the last decent coach the Hurricanes had and I was just pointing out he did have that one particular failing, which you seem to have overlooked. There was certainly no indication on how I rated Mr. Boyd's coaching ability.
Then you disparaged the Lions 2015 squad and when provided with the squad and politiely asked whch players were less than NPC standard you claim that it was eight years back and too long ago to remember all details, yet apparently not long enough ago for you to make the comment about players ability. Now your memory has been jogged you should have no problem in recalling exactly who you were referring to.
Why moan about one poor season ? - it's when a coach has poor season after poor season etc is when you really have to worry about their coaching ability... over the years the Canes have had so many average bloody coaches appointed, especially those incompetent blokes Hammett & Holland.
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@mikey07 said in Moana Pasifika vs Hurricanes:
@nzbloke I think we should be more worried about the Chiefs doing it to us this Sunday.
Fair point... we didn't have hardly any leadership in the MP match, really missed A.Savea & Coles leadership on the field, especially the latter.
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@nzbloke Thank you for you response about the coaching problems. Now could you devote some time to addressing the question about who you rate as the club players that that were well below NPC standard you mentioned as the reason for Wellington's demise in 2014. You have been given the squad list to make it easier for you so we eagerly await your decision on exactly who they were.
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@higgins said in Moana Pasifika vs Hurricanes:
@nzbloke Thank you for you response about the coaching problems. Now could you devote some time to addressing the question about who you rate as the club players that that were well below NPC standard you mentioned as the reason for Wellington's demise in 2014. You have been given the squad list to make it easier for you so we eagerly await your decision on exactly who they were.
I'd go with:
Tolu Fahamokioa
Fa'atonu Fili
Riki Flutey (at that stage of his career)
Kaipati Gaualofa
Jared Kahu
Taniela Koroi
Adam Hill
Tau Mamea
Ope Peleseuma
Eric SioneWhen you take into account some of those names were in the ABs, and some were injured, I feel the team looked pretty dire. I feel 10 average players is a reasonable chunk of the squad - but then I'd guess in 10 years we'd probably look back and pick out a similar number in most current NPC squads.
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@higgins said in Moana Pasifika vs Hurricanes:
@nzbloke Thank you for you response about the coaching problems. Now could you devote some time to addressing the question about who you rate as the club players that that were well below NPC standard you mentioned as the reason for Wellington's demise in 2014. You have been given the squad list to make it easier for you so we eagerly await your decision on exactly who they were.
You're sounding like a broken record mate, may as well move on... like analysing the players these days.
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@bobily2 You have to scratch Mesrs Fahamokioa, Fili, Flutely and Koroi from that lot as they are all international players and each of A. Hill (8 games in 2014), O. Peleseuma (1 game in 2013) and Eric Sione all had time in the Super Rugby environment (although Sione didn't actually play during his 2012/14 stint with the Hurricanes but spent at least three years in France's Top 14). Both these later 2 were also NZ Under 20s plays as well.
Therefore the finger must be being pointed at K. Gaualofa who played just the one NPC game), J. Kahu only started one game and came off the bench on two others, and Faatau Mamea (for whom I have not yet located any appearance statistics). This indicates the very limited involvement by just the three solely club players as those persons primarily responsible or Wellington's relegation by @nzbloke.Disclaimer: I have used Wikipedia to obtain the above appearance numbers so there could be a margin of error involved. There could also be some other club players called in as late injury replacements that had a game here and there that I am not currently aware of.
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I know those players played international rugby, but that doesn't mean they're above club standard (particularly at the time they were selected for Wellington) - it just means some smaller teams struggle to get quality players from time to time.
Also being an NZ U20 rep is also not a good indicator of whether someone is above club level. I can give you a list of players thst never went on to do well at NPC level if you want.
Ope Peleseuma and Eric Sione were selected for Super Rugby based on potential they never reached. They were quickly discarded.
2014 ITM Cup - Wikipedia
