Final: Chiefs v Crusaders
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@TJ said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Pretty pathetic end to an awesome game with the crowd booing the refs. To watch that game and come away whinging about the ref is everything wrong with rugby these days.
The unassailable fact is that, between the ref, touchies and TMO, Crusaders were improperly credited with seven points.
Whereas the Chiefs were denied a try by the same group on quite technical grounds.
On any objective analysis, either both or neither ought to have stood. So either Chiefs 20 -- Crusaders 18 or 27 -- 25.
That is what is wrong with rugby nowadays: glaring mistakes using technology yielding an incorrect result.
Or put another way, while the Chiefs were the better team, they weren't sufficiently better to overcome officiating mistakes and three yellow cards.
@pakman not sure which 7 points the Crusaders were credited with, but if you're complaining about the Dmac penalty at the lineout, he was a long way offside, not even close.
Also, you know you're watching rugby right? If you watch every ruck really closely you could debate that a penalty could've been awarded to either side. Given there was nothing outrageous missed I'd say it was a good reffing performance.
So from my perspective it's pretty sad to be focusing on the ref and completely missing the satisfaction of a great match,as I say that is the shame of modern rugby, boiling down to 2 sides complaining about the ref.
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Fans, coaches and players all complain about the ref.
Welcome to pro sport. It happens in every sport
@KiwiMurph said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
#647
Fans, coaches and players all complain about the ref.Welcome to pro sport. It happens in every sport
Yes it does.
But, the Chiefs didn't lose tonight because of the refs. They lost to the better team.
It's pretty poor-loserish to claim otherwise, which is what we're seeing here on the fern, plus the booing of the other team and the officials at the presentation, the carrying on by the coach at half time, there will be more it's only the first day.
Based on the evidence the Chiefs have the most feral fans in World Rugby.
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Also needs to be noted, the pathetic performance of the crowd at the presentations has removed any moral high ground over crowd behaviour from a huge number of posters here for decades.
@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Also needs to be noted, the pathetic performance of the crowd at the presentations has removed any moral high ground over crowd behaviour from a huge number of posters here for decades.
Was the worst performance I've ever seen by a home crowd, having watched Rugby my entire life. It was legit feral.
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@KiwiMurph said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
#647
Fans, coaches and players all complain about the ref.Welcome to pro sport. It happens in every sport
Yes it does.
But, the Chiefs didn't lose tonight because of the refs. They lost to the better team.
It's pretty poor-loserish to claim otherwise, which is what we're seeing here on the fern, plus the booing of the other team and the officials at the presentation, the carrying on by the coach at half time, there will be more it's only the first day.
Based on the evidence the Chiefs have the most feral fans in World Rugby.
@Canerbry it's fairly common for officials to get booed by a home crowd in a close loss when they go up to accept their medals. It sucks but it happens.
Take the Chiefs and rugby out of it.
Team who has won 7 in a row gets booed by rival fans.
It happens everywhere.
Fans in Melbourne booed the hell out of the ref at the end of the Bledisloe I went to last year.
Queensland will get booed in the 3rd Origin when they are presented the Shield in Sydney in a few weeks
Aus will get booed by parts of the English crowd if they win the Ashes.
It's modern sport. It sucks but it's the reality.
Christchurch obviously hasn't had to deal with many home losses at all in Super Rugby - let alone home playoff losses (none). Fans threw shit at Carlos when he scored the winner in a regular season game nearly 20.years ago so i wouldn't go throwing stones in glass houses.
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@pakman not sure which 7 points the Crusaders were credited with, but if you're complaining about the Dmac penalty at the lineout, he was a long way offside, not even close.
Also, you know you're watching rugby right? If you watch every ruck really closely you could debate that a penalty could've been awarded to either side. Given there was nothing outrageous missed I'd say it was a good reffing performance.
So from my perspective it's pretty sad to be focusing on the ref and completely missing the satisfaction of a great match,as I say that is the shame of modern rugby, boiling down to 2 sides complaining about the ref.
@TJ said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman not sure which 7 points the Crusaders were credited with, but if you're complaining about the Dmac penalty at the lineout, he was a long way offside, not even close.
Also, you know you're watching rugby right? If you watch every ruck really closely you could debate that a penalty could've been awarded to either side. Given there was nothing outrageous missed I'd say it was a good reffing performance.
So from my perspective it's pretty sad to be focusing on the ref and completely missing the satisfaction of a great match,as I say that is the shame of modern rugby, boiling down to 2 sides complaining about the ref.
The glaring forward pass at 36, ought to have been picked up by touchies or TMO (it was obvious on screen). So no Crusaders put in to lineout, nor Mo'unga try. It's absolutely clearcut.
THAT is why the inferior team won. I shouldn't have minded all that much, but this was the final, and the result of the entire tournament is flawed as a result.
The Chiefs did bloody well to make it so close, but if anything, if the scrum had correctly been given, I suspect the Chiefs would have run away with it in second.
The best thing about the game itself was the extreme skill of the Chiefs backs, which chopped up the Crusaders defense a number of time.
Sorry, but I can't take pleasure out of a falsely close encounter. Give me the Brumbies semi any time!
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@KiwiMurph said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
#647
Fans, coaches and players all complain about the ref.Welcome to pro sport. It happens in every sport
Yes it does.
But, the Chiefs didn't lose tonight because of the refs. They lost to the better team.
It's pretty poor-loserish to claim otherwise, which is what we're seeing here on the fern, plus the booing of the other team and the officials at the presentation, the carrying on by the coach at half time, there will be more it's only the first day.
Based on the evidence the Chiefs have the most feral fans in World Rugby.
@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@KiwiMurph said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
#647
Fans, coaches and players all complain about the ref.Welcome to pro sport. It happens in every sport
Yes it does.
But, the Chiefs didn't lose tonight because of the refs. They lost to the better team.
It's pretty poor-loserish to claim otherwise, which is what we're seeing here on the fern, plus the booing of the other team and the officials at the presentation, the carrying on by the coach at half time, there will be more it's only the first day.
Based on the evidence the Chiefs have the most feral fans in World Rugby.
I know it's hard to see past a win, but if the Mo'unga try hadn't been incorrectly awarded the Saders would have been run over in second.
Perhaps to help you see the point, had Mo'unga's try been scrubbed and Narawa awarded a second the score would have been 27 - 18 at least, but probably a larger margin. Would you have not been complaining, or just put it down to the Chiefs being the 'better' team?
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@TJ said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman not sure which 7 points the Crusaders were credited with, but if you're complaining about the Dmac penalty at the lineout, he was a long way offside, not even close.
Also, you know you're watching rugby right? If you watch every ruck really closely you could debate that a penalty could've been awarded to either side. Given there was nothing outrageous missed I'd say it was a good reffing performance.
So from my perspective it's pretty sad to be focusing on the ref and completely missing the satisfaction of a great match,as I say that is the shame of modern rugby, boiling down to 2 sides complaining about the ref.
The glaring forward pass at 36, ought to have been picked up by touchies or TMO (it was obvious on screen). So no Crusaders put in to lineout, nor Mo'unga try. It's absolutely clearcut.
THAT is why the inferior team won. I shouldn't have minded all that much, but this was the final, and the result of the entire tournament is flawed as a result.
The Chiefs did bloody well to make it so close, but if anything, if the scrum had correctly been given, I suspect the Chiefs would have run away with it in second.
The best thing about the game itself was the extreme skill of the Chiefs backs, which chopped up the Crusaders defense a number of time.
Sorry, but I can't take pleasure out of a falsely close encounter. Give me the Brumbies semi any time!
@pakman ah, the forward pass that lead to a Crusaders lineout near halfway was the crucial game changing decision that warrants all the complaining?
Should've been picked up for sure, but there were a lot of other things that the Chiefs had to get wrong to turn that into a try.
You've got your mind set on being a victim tonight so I'll leave you to that.
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@pakman ah, the forward pass that lead to a Crusaders lineout near halfway was the crucial game changing decision that warrants all the complaining?
Should've been picked up for sure, but there were a lot of other things that the Chiefs had to get wrong to turn that into a try.
You've got your mind set on being a victim tonight so I'll leave you to that.
@TJ said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman ah, the forward pass that lead to a Crusaders lineout near halfway was the crucial game changing decision that warrants all the complaining?
Should've been picked up for sure, but there were a lot of other things that the Chiefs had to get wrong to turn that into a try.
You've got your mind set on being a victim tonight so I'll leave you to that.
No. The point is that if we are going to embrace technology we need to do it properly, in particular in finals.
Either both second Narawa and Mo'unga tries get scrubbed because the officials are competent, or both let stand incorrectly.
That was a 14 point swing, which in a nutshell was the ballgame.
If you can't grasp that, I'm afraid I'll have to leave you to your ignorant bliss.
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@TJ said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman ah, the forward pass that lead to a Crusaders lineout near halfway was the crucial game changing decision that warrants all the complaining?
Should've been picked up for sure, but there were a lot of other things that the Chiefs had to get wrong to turn that into a try.
You've got your mind set on being a victim tonight so I'll leave you to that.
No. The point is that if we are going to embrace technology we need to do it properly, in particular in finals.
Either both second Narawa and Mo'unga tries get scrubbed because the officials are competent, or both let stand incorrectly.
That was a 14 point swing, which in a nutshell was the ballgame.
If you can't grasp that, I'm afraid I'll have to leave you to your ignorant bliss.
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@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
to that.
No. The point is that if we are going to embrace technology we need to do it properly, in particular in finals
As in ALB getting a red instead of a yellow?
@KiwiMurph said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
to that.
No. The point is that if we are going to embrace technology we need to do it properly, in particular in finals
As in ALB getting a red instead of a yellow?
I have no idea how TMO came to that conclusion. Not sure it was a 14 point swing, but did seem dubious to me.
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Also needs to be noted, the pathetic performance of the crowd at the presentations has removed any moral high ground over crowd behaviour from a huge number of posters here for decades.
@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Also needs to be noted, the pathetic performance of the crowd at the presentations has removed any moral high ground over crowd behaviour from a huge number of posters here for decades.
Ooh quite daring you going for the moral high ground after abusing the chiefs, the crowds and anyone not playing in the Crusaders!
There is one salty fly in your argument, crowd behavior does not logically equate with "huge number of posters here."
I am glad the Crusaders won if only to ensure you remain classy as always.
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Are the current Crusaders the greatest dynasty in professional sport?
7 titles in a row is an extraordinary accomplishment. Has any other pro team achieved that in any sport?
@Damo Bayern Munich are currently on 11 straight Bundesliga titles. There's plenty of examples out there.
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2 ways to be ABs coach: “continuity” or go out and win titles.
Scott Robertson welcome to the ABs job. Earned.
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NZ has some great young props. Williams was great tonight.
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Man the takes in here are amusing...
As a neutral I enjoyed the game, thought the ref missed bits (both ways) and in a game as tight as this, easy to say they influenced the outcome, but at the end of the day, the Crusaders barred up when it counted most, a number of Chiefs went missing at crucial times.
The men you wanted to step up for the Crusaders did, the ones that needed to step up for the chiefs, didn't.
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Pressure from the Crusaders was immense with magic lineout mojo, overall a titanic struggle and I just hope we get that intensity and tackling quality into the ABs. Gotta agree with Bones though, in the first half it looked to me that the Chiefs only had one lock on the field. The Chiefs backs were great.
Goodhue was committed but not the same as old, and as for Ennor, he only/always seems to play like that when I am watching. It must be my fault.
I thought Weber was the best 9 on the field, and DMac's workrate shaded RM's for me. -
@Bovidae said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
PGS especially
He didn't do much in this game. Should have started Finau, and used PGS as an impact ball carrier.
@Bovidae said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
The long forward pass was right in front of me. Gardner seemed asleep. The TMO needs to do their job and not just pick and choose when to intervene.
TMO can't come in for those calls any more. (I think.)
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They're up there for sure. Liverpool and the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 70s/80s, Rabbitohs in the 50s/60s, Man U in the 90s, Celtic in the 2010s, Canterbury in the 2010s all pretty impressive records. Probably a bunch more football teams in other leagues.
@Cyclops said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
They're up there for sure. Liverpool and the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 70s/80s, Rabbitohs in the 50s/60s, Man U in the 90s, Celtic in the 2010s, Canterbury in the 2010s all pretty impressive records. Probably a bunch more football teams in other leagues.
@Damo
Auckland NPC through early Blues in the 80s and 90s. -
@ploughboy said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
and the missed forward pass changed the game
The long forward pass was right in front of me. Gardner seemed asleep. The TMO needs to do their job and not just pick and choose when to intervene.
Gutted for Weber, Nankivell and PGS especially.
@Bovidae said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@ploughboy said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
and the missed forward pass changed the game
The long forward pass was right in front of me. Gardner seemed asleep. The TMO needs to do their job and not just pick and choose when to intervene.
Gutted for Weber, Nankivell and PGS especially.
All Gardner had to do was send a message to BOK, and he could have called play back.
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@TJ said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Pretty pathetic end to an awesome game with the crowd booing the refs. To watch that game and come away whinging about the ref is everything wrong with rugby these days.
The unassailable fact is that, between the ref, touchies and TMO, Crusaders were improperly credited with seven points.
Whereas the Chiefs were denied a try by the same group on quite technical grounds.
On any objective analysis, either both or neither ought to have stood. So either Chiefs 20 -- Crusaders 18 or 27 -- 25.
That is what is wrong with rugby nowadays: glaring mistakes using technology yielding an incorrect result.
Or put another way, while the Chiefs were the better team, they weren't sufficiently better to overcome officiating mistakes and three yellow cards.
@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Whereas the Chiefs were denied a try by the same group on quite technical grounds.
Chiefs supporter here.
You talking Narawa off DMac?
He was about 4m offside. Hard to whinge about.
Bit like checking if the chaser is in front of the kicker.
That's technical too.
Laws aren't guidelines or gut feel.
