NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship)
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@canefan coulda been closer if the rest of your pack matched your 4’s (Cahill?) attitude. Don’t love his grass cutting tackles. That aside, he was largely man alone at the coalface.
Wasn’t clear who your captain was but he ought to be dropped for dereliction of duty. That pack needed a Shelford style rocket in the worst way.
@Smuts said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@canefan coulda been closer if the rest of your pack matched your 4’s (Cahill?) attitude. Don’t love his grass cutting tackles. That aside, he was largely man alone at the coalface.
Wasn’t clear who your captain was but he ought to be dropped for dereliction of duty. That pack needed a Shelford style rocket in the worst way.
We lacked cohesion in the first half, and the service from the HB was laboured
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Heard the ref rang Ma‘a for some mascara advice.
Reckon people too harsh it wasn’t a bad effort especially second half. The replacement 9 was great. Needed to play more territory in the first half.
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I remember when we used to dominate these tournaments and I used to feel all content with our future talent coming through .
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@Stargazer said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
Good luck to S Africa and Italy, who still have to play on this field. (Assuming it's the same field at Paarl).
I don't know if the conditions are typical for this time of year. But if so, this venue as an advertisement for rugby, is not good IMHO. Unless you want to turn back the clock to the 70s
@canefan said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Stargazer said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
Good luck to S Africa and Italy, who still have to play on this field. (Assuming it's the same field at Paarl).
I don't know if the conditions are typical for this time of year. But if so, this venue as an advertisement for rugby, is not good IMHO. Unless you want to turn back the clock to the 70s
What were they thinking playing all these games at one venue? Is it the same field for each match?
NZ not accurate enough - poor passing ( both execution and options ) and handling, and like the ABs our kicking game is not good enough. French team monsters.
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Interesting analysis on how U20s rugby in France got so strong:
https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/06/30/how-rugbys-top-ranked-under-20-team-has-changed-the-game/
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I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
@akan004 said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
Tamaiti Williams has just been selected as an AB. So maybe yes.
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@akan004 said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
Tamaiti Williams has just been selected as an AB. So maybe yes.
@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@akan004 said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
Tamaiti Williams has just been selected as an AB. So maybe yes.
He is bloody mobile though, more so than a good number of 'smaller' props.
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@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@akan004 said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
Tamaiti Williams has just been selected as an AB. So maybe yes.
He is bloody mobile though, more so than a good number of 'smaller' props.
@Crazy-Horse said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@akan004 said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
Tamaiti Williams has just been selected as an AB. So maybe yes.
He is bloody mobile though, more so than a good number of 'smaller' props.
Not really the point though. Tuilagi looked pretty mobile too.
We just don't have as many guys that size coming through - France seem to have the gigantic PI pipeline tapped at the moment.
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After watching the 2nd half it wasn't quite as bad as I expected it to be. Probably because NZ had more possession and looked good being direct. Unfortunately they couldn't stop the French pick and goes when they were on attack.
Even the scrum looked solid.
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@canefan said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Stargazer said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
Good luck to S Africa and Italy, who still have to play on this field. (Assuming it's the same field at Paarl).
I don't know if the conditions are typical for this time of year. But if so, this venue as an advertisement for rugby, is not good IMHO. Unless you want to turn back the clock to the 70s
What were they thinking playing all these games at one venue? Is it the same field for each match?
NZ not accurate enough - poor passing ( both execution and options ) and handling, and like the ABs our kicking game is not good enough. French team monsters.
@kev said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
What were they thinking playing all these games at one venue? Is it the same field for each match?
No, there are three venues:
Danie Craven Stadium (Stellenbosch)
Paarl Gymnasium (Paarl)
Athlone Stadium (Athlone, Cape Town) -
@Crazy-Horse said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@akan004 said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
Tamaiti Williams has just been selected as an AB. So maybe yes.
He is bloody mobile though, more so than a good number of 'smaller' props.
Not really the point though. Tuilagi looked pretty mobile too.
We just don't have as many guys that size coming through - France seem to have the gigantic PI pipeline tapped at the moment.
@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Crazy-Horse said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@akan004 said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
Tamaiti Williams has just been selected as an AB. So maybe yes.
He is bloody mobile though, more so than a good number of 'smaller' props.
Not really the point though. Tuilagi looked pretty mobile too.
We just don't have as many guys that size coming through - France seem to have the gigantic PI pipeline tapped at the moment.
I guess I didn't understand your point then. I thought you were using Williams as an example of NZ picking size over mobility.
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@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Crazy-Horse said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@akan004 said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
Tamaiti Williams has just been selected as an AB. So maybe yes.
He is bloody mobile though, more so than a good number of 'smaller' props.
Not really the point though. Tuilagi looked pretty mobile too.
We just don't have as many guys that size coming through - France seem to have the gigantic PI pipeline tapped at the moment.
I guess I didn't understand your point then. I thought you were using Williams as an example of NZ picking size over mobility.
@Crazy-Horse said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Crazy-Horse said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@akan004 said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
Tamaiti Williams has just been selected as an AB. So maybe yes.
He is bloody mobile though, more so than a good number of 'smaller' props.
Not really the point though. Tuilagi looked pretty mobile too.
We just don't have as many guys that size coming through - France seem to have the gigantic PI pipeline tapped at the moment.
I guess I didn't understand your point then. I thought you were using Williams as an example of NZ picking size over mobility.
I was saying that when size is available we pick it in response to the comment about whether NZ would persevere with a big guy or not.
If we can get size and mobility then all the better.
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I remember an interview last year with tawara kerr barlow on SENZ and he couldnt emphasis enough on what is going on in France .
He kept banging on about it, kept saying stuff like, you have to actually be here to see what they are building , its like nothing ive seen anyway with their depth in quality coming through their ranks
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@akan004 said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
Tamaiti Williams has just been selected as an AB. So maybe yes.
@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@akan004 said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
Tamaiti Williams has just been selected as an AB. So maybe yes.
He's an exception rather than the rule due to his skill and mobility. We don't generally see too many big men in NZ rugby.
@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Crazy-Horse said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@akan004 said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
Tamaiti Williams has just been selected as an AB. So maybe yes.
He is bloody mobile though, more so than a good number of 'smaller' props.
Not really the point though. Tuilagi looked pretty mobile too.
We just don't have as many guys that size coming through - France seem to have the gigantic PI pipeline tapped at the moment.
We have a far larger PI population to pick from than them so that tells me that less priority is placed on identifying and developing bigger athletes.
Skelton, Antonio and Meafou are born in NZ, so we clearly have large humans. Just need to start selecting them.
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Tamaiti Williams is another converted loose forward. There are some huge PI props at 1st XV level but they need to be developed.
@Bovidae said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
Tamaiti Williams is another converted loose forward. There are some huge PI props at 1st XV level but they need to be developed.
All the more reason to get a 'single market' in Super Rugby Pacific, so we can get the Brumbies to sign and train some tighties for us. The top down NZRU structure has created a silo.
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@Bovidae said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
Tamaiti Williams is another converted loose forward. There are some huge PI props at 1st XV level but they need to be developed.
All the more reason to get a 'single market' in Super Rugby Pacific, so we can get the Brumbies to sign and train some tighties for us. The top down NZRU structure has created a silo.
@Rapido said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Bovidae said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
Tamaiti Williams is another converted loose forward. There are some huge PI props at 1st XV level but they need to be developed.
All the more reason to get a 'single market' in Super Rugby Pacific, so we can get the Brumbies to sign and train some tighties for us. The top down NZRU structure has created a silo.
Same Brumbies that choked in the big maul occasion against the chiefs? Yeah, Nah
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There are a few huge props in NZ SR teams (Ma'u, Tosi) but they don't get much playing time, so their development is hampered. There aren't big beefy locks though. Tuipolutu and IWL are the biggest but they can't be compared to the likes of Meafou, Tuilagi or Willemsee. Whitelock and Retallick are exceptional men who are gonna be very hard to replace.
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There are a few huge props in NZ SR teams (Ma'u, Tosi) but they don't get much playing time, so their development is hampered. There aren't big beefy locks though. Tuipolutu and IWL are the biggest but they can't be compared to the likes of Meafou, Tuilagi or Willemsee. Whitelock and Retallick are exceptional men who are gonna be very hard to replace.
