Blues v BI Lions
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Anyone else getting the feeling the Lions are holding back in the scrums? I expected them to dominate in that area against the Baa Baas and to a lessor extent against the Blues. I know they won a few penalties but to me they didn't look like they were trying that hard at times last night. Like they were content to just hold own.
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A comment I read said they have been surprised not to be awarded some penalties when a scrum has collapsed as the refs (so far) have been happy to let play continue if the ball is at the no.8s feet.
The Lions scrum won't be able to hold back against the Crusaders.
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Anyone else getting the feeling the Lions are holding back in the scrums? I expected them to dominate in that area against the Baa Baas and to a lessor extent against the Blues. I know they won a few penalties but to me they didn't look like they were trying that hard at times last night. Like they were content to just hold own.
@Crazy-Horse said in Blues v BI Lions:
Anyone else getting the feeling the Lions are holding back in the scrums? I expected them to dominate in that area against the Baa Baas and to a lessor extent against the Blues. I know they won a few penalties but to me they didn't look like they were trying that hard at times last night. Like they were content to just hold own.
Interesting.
They dominated last night when the respective subs came on, which is totally expected.Starting front rows didn't really budge, but yeah I didn't recall much weight going on. Plenty of collapses though.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Blues v BI Lions:
Anyone else getting the feeling the Lions are holding back in the scrums? I expected them to dominate in that area against the Baa Baas and to a lessor extent against the Blues. I know they won a few penalties but to me they didn't look like they were trying that hard at times last night. Like they were content to just hold own.
Interesting.
They dominated last night when the respective subs came on, which is totally expected.Starting front rows didn't really budge, but yeah I didn't recall much weight going on. Plenty of collapses though.
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It's a very interesting question, as the reason why the Lions should be such a challenge for NZ when/if they sort out their new team cohesion is the depth of the subs.
In a perfect world B Vuniopla gets subbed by Faletau at 60 minutes. Kruis subbed by AWJ, Furlong gets subbed by 'insert next best tighthead in British Isles'
That's a step up from AWJ getting subbed by Gethin from Pontypridd.
The 'All Blacks are fitter" thing is IMO lazy journalism (even if they actually are), as a huge part of NZ pulling away in the last 20 is our depth and therefore quality of our 8 subs v other less blessed nations. In this 23 man game rugby has become.
The Lions bench props not dominating the NZPB bench props in game 1 was quite astounding.
Some foxing would be a cool twist.
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Just rewatching the game, a pommy mate of mine was talking up Itoje before the tour. Is Itoje known for being a bit of an excitable dickhead or is he just pumped to be part of this tour?
@jegga said in Blues v BI Lions:
Just rewatching the game, a pommy mate of mine was talking up Itoje before the tour. Is Itoje known for being a bit of an excitable dickhead or is he just pumped to be part of this tour?
The former I think. His locking partner Lawes is particularly adept at smashing small backs who are in vulnerable passing positions which has earnt him a hardman reputation.....
In the UK.
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@antipodean said in Blues v BI Lions:
@Mokey https://twitter.com/jcorrigangolf/status/872503592351137792
The people that write drivel like this are a scourge on humanity.
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A comment I read said they have been surprised not to be awarded some penalties when a scrum has collapsed as the refs (so far) have been happy to let play continue if the ball is at the no.8s feet.
The Lions scrum won't be able to hold back against the Crusaders.
@Bovidae said in Blues v BI Lions:
A comment I read said they have been surprised not to be awarded some penalties when a scrum has collapsed as the refs (so far) have been happy to let play continue if the ball is at the no.8s feet.
The Lions scrum won't be able to hold back against the Crusaders.
I think that was one journalist. Stupid comment. As usual no effort made to keep up with how the game is managed by refs in the modern day. The days of being able to hold a clean ball at the back and wait for an inevitable scrum collapse have gone because is was a crap thing to do.
If you are driving then yes, you get to hold the ball in to gain advantage but if the scrum is stationary then no you can't. -
@pukunui said in Blues v BI Lions:
Didn't think Perofeta was too bad. Great pass for the first try. As West showed it isn't that easy to throw that sort of ball. He went pretty well for a young guy making his starting debut against the Lions with shitty service from Pulu who was fucking slow to clear the ball as usual..
I must have missed the good stuff Collins did. He looked his usual slow, unable to beat a tackle or take a gap self.
Nanai would have had a field day with that shitty lions defence. What did Collins actually do other than not fuck up?A error free game from Collins - that's surely the very first thing you want from your fullback?
Caught everything that was kicked to him, including an excellent mark under intense pressure during the downpour (which he converted into a free kick) and the contested take that led to West's try.
Kick returns were all well judged - including that very nicely judged one that found touch 40 metres upfield that you've dismissed as "lucky".
Nice save when your man Perofeta dropped the ball on his own line.
At least one nice running break returning the ball.
Was he spectacular? Not particularly - just very solid in everything he did. So my assessment - given how much criticism he's copped on here - was that he was "pretty good". I think that's accurate. Your remarks about him for this game seem pretty unfair.
@Chris-B. said in Blues v BI Lions:
@pukunui said in Blues v BI Lions:
Didn't think Perofeta was too bad. Great pass for the first try. As West showed it isn't that easy to throw that sort of ball. He went pretty well for a young guy making his starting debut against the Lions with shitty service from Pulu who was fucking slow to clear the ball as usual..
I must have missed the good stuff Collins did. He looked his usual slow, unable to beat a tackle or take a gap self.
Nanai would have had a field day with that shitty lions defence. What did Collins actually do other than not fuck up?A error free game from Collins - that's surely the very first thing you want from your fullback?
Caught everything that was kicked to him, including an excellent mark under intense pressure during the downpour (which he converted into a free kick) and the contested take that led to West's try.
Kick returns were all well judged - including that very nicely judged one that found touch 40 metres upfield that you've dismissed as "lucky".
Nice save when your man Perofeta dropped the ball on his own line.
At least one nice running break returning the ball.
Was he spectacular? Not particularly - just very solid in everything he did. So my assessment - given how much criticism he's copped on here - was that he was "pretty good". I think that's accurate. Your remarks about him for this game seem pretty unfair.
Everything you have described there is just the baseline of what you expect from a professional fullback though. Taking a few high balls is not something i would describe as "excellent" or "great" as others have suggested. You seem to agree. I haven't suggested he was shit in THIS game. Just not "great"
Meanwhile the guy who he played ahead of, and has for most of the year, has been ripping defences apart all year and doing freakish shit while doing everything good Collins has. Forgive me if i expect a bit more than "error free" from a fullback.
His mark was as much excellent as his kick was lucky so you can split the difference there.
Not sure what you mean by "your man" perofeta. Ive seen him play about 60 mins of rugby if that.
Funnily enough has already reached higher heights than Collins. He did that with a single pass. -
@Chris-B. said in Blues v BI Lions:
@pukunui said in Blues v BI Lions:
Didn't think Perofeta was too bad. Great pass for the first try. As West showed it isn't that easy to throw that sort of ball. He went pretty well for a young guy making his starting debut against the Lions with shitty service from Pulu who was fucking slow to clear the ball as usual..
I must have missed the good stuff Collins did. He looked his usual slow, unable to beat a tackle or take a gap self.
Nanai would have had a field day with that shitty lions defence. What did Collins actually do other than not fuck up?A error free game from Collins - that's surely the very first thing you want from your fullback?
Caught everything that was kicked to him, including an excellent mark under intense pressure during the downpour (which he converted into a free kick) and the contested take that led to West's try.
Kick returns were all well judged - including that very nicely judged one that found touch 40 metres upfield that you've dismissed as "lucky".
Nice save when your man Perofeta dropped the ball on his own line.
At least one nice running break returning the ball.
Was he spectacular? Not particularly - just very solid in everything he did. So my assessment - given how much criticism he's copped on here - was that he was "pretty good". I think that's accurate. Your remarks about him for this game seem pretty unfair.
Everything you have described there is just the baseline of what you expect from a professional fullback though. Taking a few high balls is not something i would describe as "excellent" or "great" as others have suggested. You seem to agree. I haven't suggested he was shit in THIS game. Just not "great"
Meanwhile the guy who he played ahead of, and has for most of the year, has been ripping defences apart all year and doing freakish shit while doing everything good Collins has. Forgive me if i expect a bit more than "error free" from a fullback.
His mark was as much excellent as his kick was lucky so you can split the difference there.
Not sure what you mean by "your man" perofeta. Ive seen him play about 60 mins of rugby if that.
Funnily enough has already reached higher heights than Collins. He did that with a single pass.@pukunui said in Blues v BI Lions:
@Chris-B. said in Blues v BI Lions:
@pukunui said in Blues v BI Lions:
I haven't suggested he was shit in THIS game. Just not "great"
Well you did actually...
"I must have missed the good stuff Collins did. He looked his usual slow, unable to beat a tackle or take a gap self."
The guy played well, but you seem to have taken exception to people pointing it out...in multiple posts.
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@pukunui said in Blues v BI Lions:
@Chris-B. said in Blues v BI Lions:
@pukunui said in Blues v BI Lions:
I haven't suggested he was shit in THIS game. Just not "great"
Well you did actually...
"I must have missed the good stuff Collins did. He looked his usual slow, unable to beat a tackle or take a gap self."
The guy played well, but you seem to have taken exception to people pointing it out...in multiple posts.
@Chris-B. said in Blues v BI Lions:
@pukunui said in Blues v BI Lions:
@Chris-B. said in Blues v BI Lions:
@pukunui said in Blues v BI Lions:
I haven't suggested he was shit in THIS game. Just not "great"
Well you did actually...
"I must have missed the good stuff Collins did. He looked his usual slow, unable to beat a tackle or take a gap self."
The guy played well, but you seem to have taken exception to people pointing it out...in multiple posts.
Ok i guess i did if his usual self equals shit.
I maintain he was slow, unable to hit a gap or beat a man.
I just call bullshit that taking a few high balls means he was great or played particularly well.
It was a stock standard journeyman performance. -
@MiketheSnow said in Blues v BI Lions:
Thoroughly deserved from the Blues. Stuck to the task and clinically and brutally exploited the Lions lack of pace and spatial awareness.
With a bit more precision and YCs being shown it could easily have been 5 tries to 1.
5 mins either side of halftime killed the Lions.
Luatua, Williams and Ioane played themselves into contention.
As mentioned earlier Owens, Tipuric, Webb, Halfpenny in the box seats for test match 23.
Big competition for prop.
Itoje will be in test 23, Lawes won't.
Stander had a good match but not good enough to oust Faletau.
Biggar shithouse. Sexton not much better. Gatland's decision to select Farrell as an outside half borne out.
Centres never got a chance and you still have to fancy Te'o, Joseph and Davies to be vying for the test spots
Daley is class
Nowell played himself out of contention
Liam Williams will have to do something remarkable to even get a look inI thought Webb was pretty terrible myself. Kicked so much aimless ball away. If you think Collins, Ioane and Duffie can run the ball back, there are better back 3s available to NZ.
@Billy-Tell said in Blues v BI Lions:
@MiketheSnow said in Blues v BI Lions:
Thoroughly deserved from the Blues. Stuck to the task and clinically and brutally exploited the Lions lack of pace and spatial awareness.
With a bit more precision and YCs being shown it could easily have been 5 tries to 1.
5 mins either side of halftime killed the Lions.
Luatua, Williams and Ioane played themselves into contention.
As mentioned earlier Owens, Tipuric, Webb, Halfpenny in the box seats for test match 23.
Big competition for prop.
Itoje will be in test 23, Lawes won't.
Stander had a good match but not good enough to oust Faletau.
Biggar shithouse. Sexton not much better. Gatland's decision to select Farrell as an outside half borne out.
Centres never got a chance and you still have to fancy Te'o, Joseph and Davies to be vying for the test spots
Daley is class
Nowell played himself out of contention
Liam Williams will have to do something remarkable to even get a look inI thought Webb was pretty terrible myself. Kicked so much aimless ball away. If you think Collins, Ioane and Duffie can run the ball back, there are better back 3s available to NZ.
True. He can kick better than that, and will.
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Yet again Best causes me to doubt the theory of nominative determinism. Now, if he was called Choker...
@Disgusted-of-TW said in Blues v BI Lions:
Yet again Best causes me to doubt the theory of nominative determinism. Now, if he was called Choker...
Second Best
