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Springboks v British & Irish Lions I

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Rugby Matches
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  • BonesB Bones

    @pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

    Scrum penalty against Boks around 69 for ‘walking around’.

    Stop it

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    pakman
    wrote on last edited by
    #242

    @bones said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

    @pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

    Scrum penalty against Boks around 69 for ‘walking around’.

    Stop it

    Aussies don’t like that sort of play!

    BonesB 1 Reply Last reply
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    • P pakman

      @bones said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

      @pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

      Scrum penalty against Boks around 69 for ‘walking around’.

      Stop it

      Aussies don’t like that sort of play!

      BonesB Online
      BonesB Online
      Bones
      wrote on last edited by
      #243

      @pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

      @bones said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

      @pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

      Scrum penalty against Boks around 69 for ‘walking around’.

      Stop it

      Aussies don’t like that sort of play!

      Walking the 69 around is absolutely showing off.

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      • S Offline
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        SidBarret
        wrote on last edited by
        #244

        Just watched the second half again.

        More @pakman commentary.

        There is period from about 55 to 65 where the Springboks just got zero luck. It starts with the penalty against Kwagga for the strip. Not wrong, but just so close to a great play.

        Then from the kickoff there's a box kick, which looks (in my biased opinion) to go forward off VDM, but not called. A little later there is a knock on called from a kick that is then played by a player in front but not called. Faf kicks the ball out on the full, but Kolbe is able regather and get a foot in play. But the refs miss it so the Lions get get a line out that they mauled for a penalty that is now in range.

        Shortly thereafter Watson is very lucky to stay on after tips tackles Le Roux.

        I don't mean that we got screwed by the ref, and I still think Berry is the best ref we'll have in this series, but sometimes you need a bit of luck to go your way. These types of close calls going against you compounds into pressure especially if they follow so closely on each other.

        P CatograndeC 2 Replies Last reply
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        • S SidBarret

          Just watched the second half again.

          More @pakman commentary.

          There is period from about 55 to 65 where the Springboks just got zero luck. It starts with the penalty against Kwagga for the strip. Not wrong, but just so close to a great play.

          Then from the kickoff there's a box kick, which looks (in my biased opinion) to go forward off VDM, but not called. A little later there is a knock on called from a kick that is then played by a player in front but not called. Faf kicks the ball out on the full, but Kolbe is able regather and get a foot in play. But the refs miss it so the Lions get get a line out that they mauled for a penalty that is now in range.

          Shortly thereafter Watson is very lucky to stay on after tips tackles Le Roux.

          I don't mean that we got screwed by the ref, and I still think Berry is the best ref we'll have in this series, but sometimes you need a bit of luck to go your way. These types of close calls going against you compounds into pressure especially if they follow so closely on each other.

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          pakman
          wrote on last edited by
          #245

          @sidbarret said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

          Just watched the second half again.

          More @pakman commentary.

          There is period from about 55 to 65 where the Springboks just got zero luck. It starts with the penalty against Kwagga for the strip. Not wrong, but just so close to a great play.

          Then from the kickoff there's a box kick, which looks (in my biased opinion) to go forward off VDM, but not called. A little later there is a knock on called from a kick that is then played by a player in front but not called. Faf kicks the ball out on the full, but Kolbe is able regather and get a foot in play. But the refs miss it so the Lions get get a line out that they mauled for a penalty that is now in range.

          Shortly thereafter Watson is very lucky to stay on after tips tackles Le Roux.

          I don't mean that we got screwed by the ref, and I still think Berry is the best ref we'll have in this series, but sometimes you need a bit of luck to go your way. These types of close calls going against you compounds into pressure especially if they follow so closely on each other.

          Point being that Boks being 5 behind at end was unlucky, and allowed Lions to close it out. If 2 points different ball game!

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            SidBarret
            wrote on last edited by
            #246

            Tactically South Africa needs to find a way to generate go forward off static ball especially around their own ten meter line. The box kick is fine, but you can't always kick to set defendses.

            There were also at least two scrum advantages where we used low percentage kicks instead of setting up attacks.

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • S SidBarret

              Just watched the second half again.

              More @pakman commentary.

              There is period from about 55 to 65 where the Springboks just got zero luck. It starts with the penalty against Kwagga for the strip. Not wrong, but just so close to a great play.

              Then from the kickoff there's a box kick, which looks (in my biased opinion) to go forward off VDM, but not called. A little later there is a knock on called from a kick that is then played by a player in front but not called. Faf kicks the ball out on the full, but Kolbe is able regather and get a foot in play. But the refs miss it so the Lions get get a line out that they mauled for a penalty that is now in range.

              Shortly thereafter Watson is very lucky to stay on after tips tackles Le Roux.

              I don't mean that we got screwed by the ref, and I still think Berry is the best ref we'll have in this series, but sometimes you need a bit of luck to go your way. These types of close calls going against you compounds into pressure especially if they follow so closely on each other.

              CatograndeC Offline
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              Catogrande
              wrote on last edited by
              #247

              @sidbarret

              Yeah mate, we did get the rub of the green. I don’t think that many of those rub of the green calls were that bad, Kwagga’s strip and the tip tackle aside. The rest for me were close calls, just this time they all seemed to go our way. But that’s test match rugby, you weren’t robbed but similarly if you’d have won, it wouldn’t have been an injustice. The Bok indiscipline in the second half was the most telling factor.

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              • CatograndeC Catogrande

                @sidbarret

                Yeah mate, we did get the rub of the green. I don’t think that many of those rub of the green calls were that bad, Kwagga’s strip and the tip tackle aside. The rest for me were close calls, just this time they all seemed to go our way. But that’s test match rugby, you weren’t robbed but similarly if you’d have won, it wouldn’t have been an injustice. The Bok indiscipline in the second half was the most telling factor.

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                SidBarret
                wrote on last edited by
                #248

                @catogrande yeah not robbed, just rubbed of green stuff.

                Actually the discipline wasn't that bad. High tackle from Etsebeth that was tough call (led to line out that BIL scored off) , an offside against Mapimpi, a scrum penalty where Vanipulo was on an interesting angle. The big one was the maul (three penalties and a try) where we just didn't have an answer.

                CatograndeC 1 Reply Last reply
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                • S SidBarret

                  @catogrande yeah not robbed, just rubbed of green stuff.

                  Actually the discipline wasn't that bad. High tackle from Etsebeth that was tough call (led to line out that BIL scored off) , an offside against Mapimpi, a scrum penalty where Vanipulo was on an interesting angle. The big one was the maul (three penalties and a try) where we just didn't have an answer.

                  CatograndeC Offline
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                  Catogrande
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #249

                  @sidbarret said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                  @catogrande yeah not robbed, just rubbed of green stuff.

                  Actually the discipline wasn't that bad. High tackle from Etsebeth that was tough call (led to line out that BIL scored off) , an offside against Mapimpi, a scrum penalty where Vanipulo was on an interesting angle. The big one was the maul (three penalties and a try) where we just didn't have an answer.

                  In the UK comms, Sam Warburton called it late in the first half that if the Lions kept the ball in hand a bit more and just played more rugby in general, the Boks we’re giving away penalties. He must have called that three or four times before we began to play that sort of pattern. In the second half the score and the penalty count backed this up. For sure one can point at some close calls but the numbers overall tell the story.

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                  • P pakman

                    @sidbarret said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                    Just watched the second half again.

                    More @pakman commentary.

                    There is period from about 55 to 65 where the Springboks just got zero luck. It starts with the penalty against Kwagga for the strip. Not wrong, but just so close to a great play.

                    Then from the kickoff there's a box kick, which looks (in my biased opinion) to go forward off VDM, but not called. A little later there is a knock on called from a kick that is then played by a player in front but not called. Faf kicks the ball out on the full, but Kolbe is able regather and get a foot in play. But the refs miss it so the Lions get get a line out that they mauled for a penalty that is now in range.

                    Shortly thereafter Watson is very lucky to stay on after tips tackles Le Roux.

                    I don't mean that we got screwed by the ref, and I still think Berry is the best ref we'll have in this series, but sometimes you need a bit of luck to go your way. These types of close calls going against you compounds into pressure especially if they follow so closely on each other.

                    Point being that Boks being 5 behind at end was unlucky, and allowed Lions to close it out. If 2 points different ball game!

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                    SidBarret
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #250

                    @pakman yeah, but could have been even had Pollard hit the conversion and the penalty for the tip tackle.

                    Hell we could have been up by seven had Le Roux timed his run from Am's kick a bit better.

                    We had our chances, but didn't take them. It might have been different with a tad more luck, but them the breaks.

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                    • P PecoTrain

                      @gibbonrib said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                      Wasn't impressed with Curry at all in the first half (although I wasn't impressed by anyone apart from Itoje). Gave away 3(?) penalties, and didn't offer much. Gutted that Tipuric wasn't available.

                      The two first half penalties Curry gave away were the late hit on Faf and not rolling away when he was caught and pinned by SA - I would argue that the late hit upset Fafs kicking game and there was nothing more Curry could have done to roll away as he was largely out of the way and struggling to get out from under the SA players. I didn't see a third penalty - was Curry the second player in the tackle with Daly when le Roux took a high ball and the Lions were pinged (correctly) for not releasing the player when he got a knee down to the ground?

                      nzzpN Online
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                      nzzp
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #251

                      @pecotrain said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                      @gibbonrib said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                      Wasn't impressed with Curry at all in the first half (although I wasn't impressed by anyone apart from Itoje). Gave away 3(?) penalties, and didn't offer much. Gutted that Tipuric wasn't available.

                      The two first half penalties Curry gave away were the late hit on Faf and not rolling away when he was caught and pinned by SA - I would argue that the late hit upset Fafs kicking game and there was nothing more Curry could have done to roll away as he was largely out of the way and struggling to get out from under the SA players. I didn't see a third penalty - was Curry the second player in the tackle with Daly when le Roux took a high ball and the Lions were pinged (correctly) for not releasing the player when he got a knee down to the ground?

                      the third was early when SA were looking to clear their lines, and there was bobbling ball. I think first 10 minutes - but the ref blows an SA penalty, and calls 'offside 7'. Was hard to pick up live - it looked like a latish hit on the SA kicker.

                      I'd also strongly argue the 'not rolling' penalty. Really stood out as both sides were working so hard on clearing the tackle area - in that one, he lay there, then rolled. I hate the Gats tacklers lying longitudinal and impeding people to the breakdown. It's apparently legal, but you see it in every team he coaches. Smart rugby, but cynical as all hell, and very effective I reckon.

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                      • P pakman

                        @sidbarret said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                        Just watched the second half again.

                        More @pakman commentary.

                        There is period from about 55 to 65 where the Springboks just got zero luck. It starts with the penalty against Kwagga for the strip. Not wrong, but just so close to a great play.

                        Then from the kickoff there's a box kick, which looks (in my biased opinion) to go forward off VDM, but not called. A little later there is a knock on called from a kick that is then played by a player in front but not called. Faf kicks the ball out on the full, but Kolbe is able regather and get a foot in play. But the refs miss it so the Lions get get a line out that they mauled for a penalty that is now in range.

                        Shortly thereafter Watson is very lucky to stay on after tips tackles Le Roux.

                        I don't mean that we got screwed by the ref, and I still think Berry is the best ref we'll have in this series, but sometimes you need a bit of luck to go your way. These types of close calls going against you compounds into pressure especially if they follow so closely on each other.

                        Point being that Boks being 5 behind at end was unlucky, and allowed Lions to close it out. If 2 points different ball game!

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                        PecoTrain
                        wrote on last edited by PecoTrain
                        #252

                        @pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                        Point being that Boks being 5 behind at end was unlucky, and allowed Lions to close it out. If 2 points different ball game!

                        5 points means you need to manufacture a try rather than earn a penalty - given that all of SA's try scoring opportunities in the game after the 5 minute mark (when Itoje got his hads on the ball in questionable circumstances) came from mistakes that created opportunities from broken play rather than genuine pressure and broken play was just as likely to result in Lions points as Springbok points.

                        Your analysis of the reffing is right around Hamish Watson (definite card for tip tackle) but ignores SA having the penalty count going 8 v 1 against them in the second half without losing anyone for deliberate infringing. Of the three TMO incidents for tries, one was clearly correct (knock on by Kolbe), one benefitted the Boks (Fafs try) and the third appears to be correct from the front on angle which wasn't shown during the game but I assume was seen by the TMO.
                        le Roux offside (2).jpg

                        So whats the Springbok gameplan for the 2nd test? Pretend everything is OK, do the same again and hope they can benefit from TMO mistakes to get more tries?

                        P KiwiwombleK MajorPomM 3 Replies Last reply
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                        • P PecoTrain

                          @pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                          Point being that Boks being 5 behind at end was unlucky, and allowed Lions to close it out. If 2 points different ball game!

                          5 points means you need to manufacture a try rather than earn a penalty - given that all of SA's try scoring opportunities in the game after the 5 minute mark (when Itoje got his hads on the ball in questionable circumstances) came from mistakes that created opportunities from broken play rather than genuine pressure and broken play was just as likely to result in Lions points as Springbok points.

                          Your analysis of the reffing is right around Hamish Watson (definite card for tip tackle) but ignores SA having the penalty count going 8 v 1 against them in the second half without losing anyone for deliberate infringing. Of the three TMO incidents for tries, one was clearly correct (knock on by Kolbe), one benefitted the Boks (Fafs try) and the third appears to be correct from the front on angle which wasn't shown during the game but I assume was seen by the TMO.
                          le Roux offside (2).jpg

                          So whats the Springbok gameplan for the 2nd test? Pretend everything is OK, do the same again and hope they can benefit from TMO mistakes to get more tries?

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                          pakman
                          wrote on last edited by pakman
                          #253

                          @pecotrain said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                          @pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                          Point being that Boks being 5 behind at end was unlucky, and allowed Lions to close it out. If 2 points different ball game!

                          5 points means you need to manufacture a try rather than earn a penalty - given that all of SA's try scoring opportunities in the game after the 5 minute mark (when Itoje got his hads on the ball in questionable circumstances) came from mistakes that created opportunities from broken play rather than genuine pressure and broken play was just as likely to result in Lions points as Springbok points.

                          Your analysis of the reffing is right around Hamish Watson (definite card for tip tackle) but ignores SA having the penalty count going 8 v 1 against them in the second half without losing anyone for deliberate infringing. Of the three TMO incidents for tries, one was clearly correct (knock on by Kolbe), one benefitted the Boks (Fafs try) and the third appears to be correct from the front on angle which wasn't shown during the game but I assume was seen by the TMO.
                          le Roux offside (2).jpg

                          So whats the Springbok gameplan for the 2nd test? Pretend everything is OK, do the same again and hope they can benefit from TMO mistakes to get more tries?

                          Great photo. Clear and obvious as mud, in words of Will Greenwood!

                          And two of those 8 penalties were bogus. Very few in red zone.

                          But agree with summation. Stick with game plan and it will come down to how the 50:50s break.

                          I think I’d revert to big eightman.

                          CatograndeC nzzpN 2 Replies Last reply
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                          • P pakman

                            @pecotrain said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                            @pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                            Point being that Boks being 5 behind at end was unlucky, and allowed Lions to close it out. If 2 points different ball game!

                            5 points means you need to manufacture a try rather than earn a penalty - given that all of SA's try scoring opportunities in the game after the 5 minute mark (when Itoje got his hads on the ball in questionable circumstances) came from mistakes that created opportunities from broken play rather than genuine pressure and broken play was just as likely to result in Lions points as Springbok points.

                            Your analysis of the reffing is right around Hamish Watson (definite card for tip tackle) but ignores SA having the penalty count going 8 v 1 against them in the second half without losing anyone for deliberate infringing. Of the three TMO incidents for tries, one was clearly correct (knock on by Kolbe), one benefitted the Boks (Fafs try) and the third appears to be correct from the front on angle which wasn't shown during the game but I assume was seen by the TMO.
                            le Roux offside (2).jpg

                            So whats the Springbok gameplan for the 2nd test? Pretend everything is OK, do the same again and hope they can benefit from TMO mistakes to get more tries?

                            Great photo. Clear and obvious as mud, in words of Will Greenwood!

                            And two of those 8 penalties were bogus. Very few in red zone.

                            But agree with summation. Stick with game plan and it will come down to how the 50:50s break.

                            I think I’d revert to big eightman.

                            CatograndeC Offline
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                            Catogrande
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #254

                            @pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                            @pecotrain said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                            @pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                            Point being that Boks being 5 behind at end was unlucky, and allowed Lions to close it out. If 2 points different ball game!

                            5 points means you need to manufacture a try rather than earn a penalty - given that all of SA's try scoring opportunities in the game after the 5 minute mark (when Itoje got his hads on the ball in questionable circumstances) came from mistakes that created opportunities from broken play rather than genuine pressure and broken play was just as likely to result in Lions points as Springbok points.

                            Your analysis of the reffing is right around Hamish Watson (definite card for tip tackle) but ignores SA having the penalty count going 8 v 1 against them in the second half without losing anyone for deliberate infringing. Of the three TMO incidents for tries, one was clearly correct (knock on by Kolbe), one benefitted the Boks (Fafs try) and the third appears to be correct from the front on angle which wasn't shown during the game but I assume was seen by the TMO.
                            le Roux offside (2).jpg

                            So whats the Springbok gameplan for the 2nd test? Pretend everything is OK, do the same again and hope they can benefit from TMO mistakes to get more tries?

                            Great photo. Clear and obvious as mud, in words of Will Greenwood!

                            And two of those 8 penalties were bogus. Very few in red zone.

                            But agree with summation. Stick with game plan and it will come down to how the 50:50s break.

                            I think I’d revert to big eightman.

                            If you expand that pic it is quite clear really, though obviously not clear at the time from the footage we were shown. But do you really think Le Roux knew exactly where his feet were in relation to the kicker or do you think he was trying to squeeze as much as he could? Like Curry’s late hit on De Klerk, a little bit different and you’re a hero but if you put yourself at the mercy of the officials don’t t expect everything to go your way. The ironic thing is that Le Roux could have been half a yard onside and he would still have scored. Forward pass notwithstanding 😬

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                            • CatograndeC Catogrande

                              @pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                              @pecotrain said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                              @pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                              Point being that Boks being 5 behind at end was unlucky, and allowed Lions to close it out. If 2 points different ball game!

                              5 points means you need to manufacture a try rather than earn a penalty - given that all of SA's try scoring opportunities in the game after the 5 minute mark (when Itoje got his hads on the ball in questionable circumstances) came from mistakes that created opportunities from broken play rather than genuine pressure and broken play was just as likely to result in Lions points as Springbok points.

                              Your analysis of the reffing is right around Hamish Watson (definite card for tip tackle) but ignores SA having the penalty count going 8 v 1 against them in the second half without losing anyone for deliberate infringing. Of the three TMO incidents for tries, one was clearly correct (knock on by Kolbe), one benefitted the Boks (Fafs try) and the third appears to be correct from the front on angle which wasn't shown during the game but I assume was seen by the TMO.
                              le Roux offside (2).jpg

                              So whats the Springbok gameplan for the 2nd test? Pretend everything is OK, do the same again and hope they can benefit from TMO mistakes to get more tries?

                              Great photo. Clear and obvious as mud, in words of Will Greenwood!

                              And two of those 8 penalties were bogus. Very few in red zone.

                              But agree with summation. Stick with game plan and it will come down to how the 50:50s break.

                              I think I’d revert to big eightman.

                              If you expand that pic it is quite clear really, though obviously not clear at the time from the footage we were shown. But do you really think Le Roux knew exactly where his feet were in relation to the kicker or do you think he was trying to squeeze as much as he could? Like Curry’s late hit on De Klerk, a little bit different and you’re a hero but if you put yourself at the mercy of the officials don’t t expect everything to go your way. The ironic thing is that Le Roux could have been half a yard onside and he would still have scored. Forward pass notwithstanding 😬

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                              pakman
                              wrote on last edited by pakman
                              #255

                              @catogrande I think Le Roux would have been pumped with Adrenalin and just trying to chase.

                              But as you note a foot back and he’s onside and (forward pass excepted) scores.

                              Likewise, Kolbe’s knock down goes a foot further back and De Allande still scores.

                              Thank goodness for technology?!

                              nzzpN 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • P pakman

                                @catogrande I think Le Roux would have been pumped with Adrenalin and just trying to chase.

                                But as you note a foot back and he’s onside and (forward pass excepted) scores.

                                Likewise, Kolbe’s knock down goes a foot further back and De Allande still scores.

                                Thank goodness for technology?!

                                nzzpN Online
                                nzzpN Online
                                nzzp
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #256

                                @pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                                But as you note a foot back and he’s inside and (forward pass excepted) scores.

                                This came up a while ago, and it's always confused me with overlapping players. Anyone know what the actual interpretation is - is it that you have to have part of your body grounded behind the ball?

                                Or that you just need some overlap?

                                CrucialC 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • nzzpN nzzp

                                  @pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                                  But as you note a foot back and he’s inside and (forward pass excepted) scores.

                                  This came up a while ago, and it's always confused me with overlapping players. Anyone know what the actual interpretation is - is it that you have to have part of your body grounded behind the ball?

                                  Or that you just need some overlap?

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                                  Crucial
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #257

                                  @nzzp said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                                  @pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                                  But as you note a foot back and he’s inside and (forward pass excepted) scores.

                                  This came up a while ago, and it's always confused me with overlapping players. Anyone know what the actual interpretation is - is it that you have to have part of your body grounded behind the ball?

                                  Or that you just need some overlap?

                                  Not the ball, the player.
                                  Can't be in front of the last player to play the ball.
                                  In most cases it is an easy look at the front feet on the ground but I guess that in a case like this it is the line of the kicking foot?

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                                  • KiwiwombleK Kiwiwomble

                                    I feel like I’m missing something, there is loads of banter on the socials about the game being a bit of a hiding, felt to me like they limped over the line

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                                    GibbonRib
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #258

                                    @kiwiwomble said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                                    I feel like I’m missing something, there is loads of banter on the socials about the game being a bit of a hiding, felt to me like they limped over the line

                                    Banter on socials is not known for being the most accurate reflection of reality. But any BIL fans who really think that was a hiding are deluded. They were in control at the end, and were unquestionably the better team for half the game. But it was a close game, a few moments of luck and a few decisions the other way would have made it a very different game.

                                    ARHSA P MN5M MiketheSnowM 4 Replies Last reply
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                                    • MiketheSnowM MiketheSnow

                                      @pecotrain said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                                      @mikethesnow
                                      Only news I can find is https://www.ruck.co.uk/lions-injury-update-biggar-and-jones-out-russell-returns/
                                      When asked about Biggar, Gatland responded: “We’ll have to see. It’s a tricky one”

                                      I assume that means its not tricky at all and he's not available. Think he already had a knee niggle so this has made it worse.

                                      From the article it says he failed his HIA.

                                      At the time I thought it was a knee injury and some shrewd/dodgy coaching from Gatland to take Biggar off for a HIA so Daly could come back on.

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                                      GibbonRib
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #259

                                      @mikethesnow said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                                      @pecotrain said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                                      @mikethesnow
                                      Only news I can find is https://www.ruck.co.uk/lions-injury-update-biggar-and-jones-out-russell-returns/
                                      When asked about Biggar, Gatland responded: “We’ll have to see. It’s a tricky one”

                                      I assume that means its not tricky at all and he's not available. Think he already had a knee niggle so this has made it worse.

                                      From the article it says he failed his HIA.

                                      At the time I thought it was a knee injury and some shrewd/dodgy coaching from Gatland to take Biggar off for a HIA so Daly could come back on.

                                      There's nothing shrewd about finding a way to get Daly back on

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                                      • P PecoTrain

                                        @pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                                        Point being that Boks being 5 behind at end was unlucky, and allowed Lions to close it out. If 2 points different ball game!

                                        5 points means you need to manufacture a try rather than earn a penalty - given that all of SA's try scoring opportunities in the game after the 5 minute mark (when Itoje got his hads on the ball in questionable circumstances) came from mistakes that created opportunities from broken play rather than genuine pressure and broken play was just as likely to result in Lions points as Springbok points.

                                        Your analysis of the reffing is right around Hamish Watson (definite card for tip tackle) but ignores SA having the penalty count going 8 v 1 against them in the second half without losing anyone for deliberate infringing. Of the three TMO incidents for tries, one was clearly correct (knock on by Kolbe), one benefitted the Boks (Fafs try) and the third appears to be correct from the front on angle which wasn't shown during the game but I assume was seen by the TMO.
                                        le Roux offside (2).jpg

                                        So whats the Springbok gameplan for the 2nd test? Pretend everything is OK, do the same again and hope they can benefit from TMO mistakes to get more tries?

                                        KiwiwombleK Online
                                        KiwiwombleK Online
                                        Kiwiwomble
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #260

                                        @pecotrain said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                                        @pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                                        Point being that Boks being 5 behind at end was unlucky, and allowed Lions to close it out. If 2 points different ball game!

                                        5 points means you need to manufacture a try rather than earn a penalty - given that all of SA's try scoring opportunities in the game after the 5 minute mark (when Itoje got his hads on the ball in questionable circumstances) came from mistakes that created opportunities from broken play rather than genuine pressure and broken play was just as likely to result in Lions points as Springbok points.

                                        Your analysis of the reffing is right around Hamish Watson (definite card for tip tackle) but ignores SA having the penalty count going 8 v 1 against them in the second half without losing anyone for deliberate infringing. Of the three TMO incidents for tries, one was clearly correct (knock on by Kolbe), one benefitted the Boks (Fafs try) and the third appears to be correct from the front on angle which wasn't shown during the game but I assume was seen by the TMO.
                                        le Roux offside (2).jpg

                                        So whats the Springbok gameplan for the 2nd test? Pretend everything is OK, do the same again and hope they can benefit from TMO mistakes to get more tries?

                                        would love to see this angle for the pass before it too, i thought that looked worse than Le Roux

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                                        • P pakman

                                          @pecotrain said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                                          @pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:

                                          Point being that Boks being 5 behind at end was unlucky, and allowed Lions to close it out. If 2 points different ball game!

                                          5 points means you need to manufacture a try rather than earn a penalty - given that all of SA's try scoring opportunities in the game after the 5 minute mark (when Itoje got his hads on the ball in questionable circumstances) came from mistakes that created opportunities from broken play rather than genuine pressure and broken play was just as likely to result in Lions points as Springbok points.

                                          Your analysis of the reffing is right around Hamish Watson (definite card for tip tackle) but ignores SA having the penalty count going 8 v 1 against them in the second half without losing anyone for deliberate infringing. Of the three TMO incidents for tries, one was clearly correct (knock on by Kolbe), one benefitted the Boks (Fafs try) and the third appears to be correct from the front on angle which wasn't shown during the game but I assume was seen by the TMO.
                                          le Roux offside (2).jpg

                                          So whats the Springbok gameplan for the 2nd test? Pretend everything is OK, do the same again and hope they can benefit from TMO mistakes to get more tries?

                                          Great photo. Clear and obvious as mud, in words of Will Greenwood!

                                          And two of those 8 penalties were bogus. Very few in red zone.

                                          But agree with summation. Stick with game plan and it will come down to how the 50:50s break.

                                          I think I’d revert to big eightman.

                                          nzzpN Online
                                          nzzpN Online
                                          nzzp
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #261

                                          @pakman good picture, thanks.

                                          Hard to say it's 'clear and obvious' -- but looked ropey in real time. Interestingly, I thought the pass looked worse initially, but on replay looked much cleaner.

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