Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour

[canefan]

@sparky said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:

@jk said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:

@nostrildamus said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:

@canefan said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:

I didn't read the game thread in real time. But post game I haven't really heard much talk about the ref. As it should be. I thought he had a decent game, of course the attitude of both teams probably made his day easier

Give it a few hours for the Welsh to wake up!

Read this then

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/my-god-unheard-wales-v-22019824

My humble advice to the Welsh Rugby team. Spend more of your energy on improving your fitness and your set piece, especially your line out. Waste less energy bleating at the ref. Fine and good for your captain to have a conversation with the officials, but if you all do it you are probably doing more harm than good and you look ridiculous.

Funny thing was, they looked great going into the half. Held their own. At one stage we had 2 in the bin, so it wasn't like we had it all our own way. They just ran out of gas

[BerniesCorner]

The reason why Barrett wasn't yc'd is cos the ref has seen you tube Beauden Barrett god mode

[Snowy]

@berniescorner said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:

The reason why Barrett wasn't yc'd is cos the ref has seen you tube Beauden Barrett god mode

Yes and because he he had already done it successfully once. He did it again as well of course and that attempt wasn’t far away.

[canefan]

@snowy said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:

@berniescorner said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:

The reason why Barrett wasn't yc'd is cos the ref has seen you tube Beauden Barrett god mode

Yes and because he he had already done it successfully once. He did it again as well of course and that attempt wasn’t far away.

And the fact that ALB (IIRC?) was just steps from tackling the runner if he had actually been allowed to catch the pass hence no YC. I've seen blatant knock downs, this looked like a genuine attempt and BB has form. But ill-timed and the rules are the rules

[Catogrande]

@kirwan @nostrildamus

Yeah, I don’t think he was being cynical but he was a world away from catching it. A deliberate action that resulted in a knock on. What makes it a yellow for me rather than just a penalty is that it would likely have provided Wales with a significant advantage deep into NZ territory.

[nostrildamus]

@catogrande said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:

@kirwan @nostrildamus

Yeah, I don’t think he was being cynical but he was a world away from catching it. A deliberate action that resulted in a knock on. What makes it a yellow for me rather than just a penalty is that it would likely have provided Wales with a significant advantage deep into NZ territory.

I see merit in your reasoning. But the French have a big ledger to clear with us

[GibbonRib]

Llongyfarchiadau Kiwis. Your team is quite good.

But is there any better marketing hook in world sport than this one that Wales have going on? One day the Welsh will beat the All Blacks again. Probably. Fuck knows when, but when it does happen it'll the most momentous day since Owain Glyndwr routed the Saes at the Battle of Bryn Glas in 1402.

Imagine being the fan who missed it because you decided this year not to spend the money. Unthinkable. You'd be mad not to buy one more, what if the next one is the golden ticket? So it's another full house, and another £5m knocked off the WRU overdraft, just on the off-chance your blokes get 2 men red carded early and our reserves play out of their skins to grind out a sketchy 2-point win.

When it happens, it's going to go off like never before. It'll be the kind of party (and hangover) that will make a noticeable dent in the nation's GDP. You'll be able to hear it in NZ. When it's done, it'll leave Cardiff looking like Newport.

But not this year. So the ruse rolls on, until the ABs' are next in town to collect their share of the gate takings in exchange for delivering us our favourite gubbing.

Obviously every Welshman & woman will be ecstatic when we finally win one, but I can't help thinking that the bods in the WRU finance department would be less happy about it than most. Imagine if we beat you a couple of times in a row (stop sniggering in the back), how are they going to sell 75,000 overpriced tickets to the All Blacks vs a Welsh regions select XV after that?

Anyway, well played, looking forward to next time.

[Stargazer]

https://twitter.com/WorldRugby/status/1454757541276123140

[Nevorian]

@nostrildamus said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:

@broughie said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:

@machpants Had to reread your post. The “get it” at first glance appeared snarky like do you understand? In light of the rules would have understood a YC but the ref should have discretion which he seemed to take advantage of. He made reference to AB defensive coverage ruling out a definite welsh try.

I was impressed by that. I have sympathy with the Welsh for not getting a yellow card but I was impressed the ref tried to see if there was cover. Some refs just make a decision and that is that.

The defensive cover would only rule out penalty try wouldn’t it? Should have no bearing on whether it was a YC or not

[nostrildamus]

@nevorian said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:

@nostrildamus said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:

@broughie said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:

@machpants Had to reread your post. The “get it” at first glance appeared snarky like do you understand? In light of the rules would have understood a YC but the ref should have discretion which he seemed to take advantage of. He made reference to AB defensive coverage ruling out a definite welsh try.

I was impressed by that. I have sympathy with the Welsh for not getting a yellow card but I was impressed the ref tried to see if there was cover. Some refs just make a decision and that is that.

The defensive cover would only rule out penalty try wouldn’t it? Should have no bearing on whether it was a YC or not

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/ref-watch-the-hand-of-beauden-barrett/

To award a penalty the referee has to consider if the offending player has “a realistic chance” of regathering the ball before it hits the ground or another player. In this instance, given the distance the ball travelled away from him, Barrett clearly deserved to be penalised.

Moving to the question of a yellow card award, it is again worth clarifying that **there is no directive stating that a deliberate knock-on automatically results in a sin bin**.

When considering this option, as with any other technical offence, the officials must next decide whether the offence is cynical and **if it stops a dynamic phase of play and reduces attacking options.** Where the offence takes place is also relevant – **a card is more likely in the defensive 22 than in midfield** since a lot less has to subsequently occur for points to result from the illegally-ended move.

nb he still thinks BB was lucky not to receive a yellow card but above is an explanation.

[sparky]

This post is deleted!

[rotated]

Very challenging to label that intercept attempt as cynical, the intercept was very much on and it's Barrett.

The older system seemed to be better.

[Crucial]

@rotated said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:

Very challenging to label that intercept attempt as cynical, the intercept was very much on and it's Barrett.

The older system seemed to be better.

For another example see SA v NZ very recently. An even more blatant one handed dive that was only penalised.
Refs changing their decision protocol and now confusing themselves?

I prefer the onus being on the interceptor. If you have an unrealistic crack then that is deemed cynical as you should be making a correct decision knowing the outcomes.
Both recent examples a YC in my book (but the refs seem to have a new book now)

[Dan54]

@mikethesnow Sounds like heaven for a good rugby man!!
You have me very envious!!

[Dan54]

I wondered whether BB was going to be carded for deliberate knock on, though didn't think he really would as it wasn't anywhere near a try scoring chance.
But if had of been would he of scored last ry, where he did same thing, flicked ball up with hand only this time he caught it, and was considered a good intercept.

[Crucial]

@dan54 said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:

I wondered whether BB was going to be carded for deliberate knock on, though didn't think he really would as it wasn't anywhere near a try scoring chance.
But if had of been would he of scored last ry, where he did same thing, flicked ball up with hand only this time he caught it, and was considered a good intercept.

Which is why they seem to be ruling differently now. That article explains it clearly I think.

Fail to execute = Penalty
Deemed cynical (ie deliberately having a go knowing chances are slim but outcome will favour you) = YC
Outcome stops a probable try = PT + YC

In BBs case only the first step was reached.

Previously this was ruled as

Failure to execute = proof that attempt was cynical (UNLESS ref decided you had a good chance to execute but muffed it) = YC (or Pen)

I can see why they think the 'new' way is clearer and fairer, just wish they would explain these things to the public.

[nzzp]

@catogrande said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:

Worst decision for me was no yellow for the other Barrett’s deliberate knock on. Can understand the no penalty try but not to card him was spineless.

I'll go back to my usual call on consistency for this. Twice this year the last defender against the AB knocked the pass down, and only copped a penalty. Players just want to know the outcome of actions - if it's always a YC and probably PT, then it changes the risk/reward.

For Barrett: penalty reasonable, YC possibly reasonable - but only if that's going to be reffed consistently

[rotated]

The key to the Barrett knock down to me is the pass itself. It's a loopy infield effort and you can see on the replay Barrett reads it out of the hand and then attacks for the intercept. IMO that pass is loopy enough to be reasonably taken one handed.

He remains comfortably on his feet during the attempt and if taken it was a try. The final try has many similarities to that effort, if he shelled that a penalty or yellow card would have been a joke.

Knock on would be my preference. I understand why it is a penalty in this day and age but I'm struggling to see the cynicism in that play. His read of it out of the hand is evidence to the opposite.

I just have a tough time seeing a yellow card for an attempted intercept above shoulder height in almost any circumstances.

[Chris B.]

@berniescorner said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:

The reason why Barrett wasn't yc'd is cos the ref has seen you tube Beauden Barrett god mode

... and it was his 100th test and he was wearing silver boots.

I probably would have given him a card because I'm not a French romantic. I would have penalised that Welsh hooker back in 2017 as well and given Beaudy the chance to win a Lions series - a deal I believe BB would probably take.

[Catogrande]

@nzzp

Consistency in officiating is as rare as horse shit on the motorway