Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022
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@nzbloke Jackson Garden-Bachop is just a very average rugby player. Unfortunately Holland loves to pick them.
@canes4life said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
@nzbloke Jackson Garden-Bachop is just a very average rugby player. Unfortunately Holland loves to pick them.
He seems that to me too, though to be fair he went well when he came on against Crusaders, but I would never think of him as more than a journeyman suited perhaps to the bench.
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@dan54 said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
Why, Read was another great 8, but not known as an offensive tackler, but bloody good defender, but not a physical one,
Yeah, definitely.
@frank said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
@dan54 said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
Why, Read was another great 8, but not known as an offensive tackler, but bloody good defender, but not a physical one,
Yeah, definitely.
Lol I bet if I could be bothered I would find a few clips of Ardie doing same thing, I don't see the point, I am sure almost every player has knocked someone back while they standing there like that, I not critising Read in anyway, but he was known as a good defender not a dominant one. A dominant tackle you understand is where you drive the player AND the ball back behind the gainline, the one you show is a normal front on tackle.
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The new fella Sullivan had a great game in the midfield, looks to have good all-rounds skills, he executed a well weighted grubber for Goosen to score, him & Umaga-Jensen are going to be a top midfield combo for the Canes... Love kicked aimlessly at 10 in the first game, he's clearly thought about it a lot as his general kicking game when he came on was very accurate against the Blues, the bloke has a long punt too & as we all know a ton of speed.
@nzbloke Sullivan really impressed me, I actually said on another thread I didn't know if he was that good. I eat my words somewhat, he did a hell of a lot of little things really well, and as you say the little kick through was good vision, and the palm off to RTS was lovely. Bloody good first up game and will be happy to see how he goes.
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Just watched the first half and a couple of random thoughts
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I have said it before but there is something about Zarn Sullivan that reminds me of Carter. Maybe it's his economy of movement?
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The instance where RI failed to pass toTalea is why I still have concerns about him as AB 13. You can't afford to throw away chances like that. Sure, every player does the same from time to time. Hopefully it was a one off.
@crazy-horse said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
- I have said it before but there is something about Zarn Sullivan that reminds me of Carter. Maybe it's his economy of movement?
I like that description of Sullivan the younger. There is something there that just looks good.
As for Sullivan the older. Looks like something has clicked with him. He certainly never played like that at the Chiefs. It wasn't coaching at the Canes either as Jordie commented that when he turned up at first training they were all amazed that another team had let him go.
Anyway, good performances from both -
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@crazy-horse said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
- I have said it before but there is something about Zarn Sullivan that reminds me of Carter. Maybe it's his economy of movement?
I like that description of Sullivan the younger. There is something there that just looks good.
As for Sullivan the older. Looks like something has clicked with him. He certainly never played like that at the Chiefs. It wasn't coaching at the Canes either as Jordie commented that when he turned up at first training they were all amazed that another team had let him go.
Anyway, good performances from both@crucial said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
As for Sullivan the older. Looks like something has clicked with him.
It's probably just something as simple as him maturing. Most players don't find their feet until about the age of 23 so he's probably in a good space off the field which is helping him on it.
The way he played on Saturday, he's certainly a welcome addition to a long line of awesome Hurricane centres.
Let's hope Holland keeps him there and adds PUJ at 12 to partner him going forward. -
@crucial said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
As for Sullivan the older. Looks like something has clicked with him.
It's probably just something as simple as him maturing. Most players don't find their feet until about the age of 23 so he's probably in a good space off the field which is helping him on it.
The way he played on Saturday, he's certainly a welcome addition to a long line of awesome Hurricane centres.
Let's hope Holland keeps him there and adds PUJ at 12 to partner him going forward.@canes4life said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
@crucial said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
As for Sullivan the older. Looks like something has clicked with him.
It's probably just something as simple as him maturing. Most players don't find their feet until about the age of 23 so he's probably in a good space off the field which is helping him on it.
The way he played on Saturday, he's a welcome addition to a long line of awesome Hurricane centres.
Let's hope Holland keeps him there and adds PUJ at 12 to partner him going forward.Lucky for him that the Chiefs let him go and he has a chance to shine. He wasn't going to get too much of a chance behind two ABs at the Chiefs and a proven stand in with Nankivell.
Some players miss that opportunity when they 'click' as they are tied in to a contract somewhere.
Good luck to him.At the top level I'm not convinced on RIoane orHavili as great options. ALB is class but doesn't always ask questions of the defence.
Centres that really challenge the defence are a way to combat the rush. -
@canes4life said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
@crucial said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
As for Sullivan the older. Looks like something has clicked with him.
It's probably just something as simple as him maturing. Most players don't find their feet until about the age of 23 so he's probably in a good space off the field which is helping him on it.
The way he played on Saturday, he's a welcome addition to a long line of awesome Hurricane centres.
Let's hope Holland keeps him there and adds PUJ at 12 to partner him going forward.Lucky for him that the Chiefs let him go and he has a chance to shine. He wasn't going to get too much of a chance behind two ABs at the Chiefs and a proven stand in with Nankivell.
Some players miss that opportunity when they 'click' as they are tied in to a contract somewhere.
Good luck to him.At the top level I'm not convinced on RIoane orHavili as great options. ALB is class but doesn't always ask questions of the defence.
Centres that really challenge the defence are a way to combat the rush.@crucial yeah he's made a good move at the right time with Laumape moving on aswell, and probably suits the Canes style of rugby. I hope he continues to flourish.
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This was a good little tanty after that losing try was scored.
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@crucial said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
As for Sullivan the older. Looks like something has clicked with him.
It's probably just something as simple as him maturing. Most players don't find their feet until about the age of 23 so he's probably in a good space off the field which is helping him on it.
The way he played on Saturday, he's certainly a welcome addition to a long line of awesome Hurricane centres.
Let's hope Holland keeps him there and adds PUJ at 12 to partner him going forward.@canes4life said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
@crucial said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
As for Sullivan the older. Looks like something has clicked with him.
It's probably just something as simple as him maturing. Most players don't find their feet until about the age of 23 so he's probably in a good space off the field which is helping him on it.
Sullivan's confidence should have been high coming off his season for Waikato, particularly the SF and final. In the handful of games he played for the Chiefs more would have been on the wing than at centre. Watch Holland replace him with Proctor now.
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@canes4life said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
@crucial said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
As for Sullivan the older. Looks like something has clicked with him.
It's probably just something as simple as him maturing. Most players don't find their feet until about the age of 23 so he's probably in a good space off the field which is helping him on it.
Sullivan's confidence should have been high coming off his season for Waikato, particularly the SF and final. In the handful of games he played for the Chiefs more would have been on the wing than at centre. Watch Holland replace him with Proctor now.
@bovidae good point, I didn't realise he had so much pace aswell. His acceleration from standing still looks to be a great asset, and I think having someone like Goosen outside him will give the Canes a deadly right side with that speed. But again, wishful thinking with the coach we have.
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@mariner4life said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
Ah yes, the annual Ardie Savea is amazing because he runs a lot.
A test #8 needs to want to hit rucks, and be effective when he does do it. A #8 also needs to be physical in the tackle.
Test rugby is not won by YouTube highlights.
Should be the first name on the bench. Should not start at 8 if playing a decent calibre pack (therefore can start against Australia).
Obviously you never watched Kieran Read a lot, he didn't hit a lot of rucks, wasn't overly agressive at the tackle, just did all his jobs bloody well as Ardie seem to. Most loosies don't hit rucks whether they 6,7, or 8, they are either the one setting up or usually setting up in attack or defence, watch the 6N test from this weekend and see which 8s do it. Besides all else NZ rugby doesn't have to say 8 does this or that so we should, we should pick players that do a job we want them to do, not what's written in manuals!
@dan54 said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
@mariner4life said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
Ah yes, the annual Ardie Savea is amazing because he runs a lot.
A test #8 needs to want to hit rucks, and be effective when he does do it. A #8 also needs to be physical in the tackle.
Test rugby is not won by YouTube highlights.
Should be the first name on the bench. Should not start at 8 if playing a decent calibre pack (therefore can start against Australia).
Obviously you never watched Kieran Read a lot, he didn't hit a lot of rucks, wasn't overly agressive at the tackle, just did all his jobs bloody well as Ardie seem to. Most loosies don't hit rucks whether they 6,7, or 8, they are either the one setting up or usually setting up in attack or defence, watch the 6N test from this weekend and see which 8s do it. Besides all else NZ rugby doesn't have to say 8 does this or that so we should, we should pick players that do a job we want them to do, not what's written in manuals!
Maybe in his last couple of years but those earlier years he was a man possessed and played with a high level of physicality at the tackle and ruck. The Kieran crazy eyes were something else and usually meant there was an almost reckless abandon going on.
Some may not have noticed it because he was running down the left flank and giving no look passes to outside backs or scoring tries himself, but I was never concerned about his physicality until his last year or so.
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@dan54 said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
@mariner4life said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
Ah yes, the annual Ardie Savea is amazing because he runs a lot.
A test #8 needs to want to hit rucks, and be effective when he does do it. A #8 also needs to be physical in the tackle.
Test rugby is not won by YouTube highlights.
Should be the first name on the bench. Should not start at 8 if playing a decent calibre pack (therefore can start against Australia).
Obviously you never watched Kieran Read a lot, he didn't hit a lot of rucks, wasn't overly agressive at the tackle, just did all his jobs bloody well as Ardie seem to. Most loosies don't hit rucks whether they 6,7, or 8, they are either the one setting up or usually setting up in attack or defence, watch the 6N test from this weekend and see which 8s do it. Besides all else NZ rugby doesn't have to say 8 does this or that so we should, we should pick players that do a job we want them to do, not what's written in manuals!
Maybe in his last couple of years but those earlier years he was a man possessed and played with a high level of physicality at the tackle and ruck. The Kieran crazy eyes were something else and usually meant there was an almost reckless abandon going on.
Some may not have noticed it because he was running down the left flank and giving no look passes to outside backs or scoring tries himself, but I was never concerned about his physicality until his last year or so.
@act-crusader said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
The Kieran crazy eyes were something else and usually meant there was an almost reckless abandon going on.
+1
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A summary of the game from çlubrugby.nz
"Absolute scenes at the Sportz Bar in Whanganui when the Hurricanes charged from 14-32 down to beat the Blues 33-32 on Saturday. The two bartenders proudly wearing Blues attire were teasing the patrons throughout only for the majority of punters to erupt with joy at the end. A hearty and welcoming drinking hole with the complementary rum and coke from a gracious runner-up much appreciated.
The impact of the Hurricanes bench was outstanding with every substitute adding zest, skill and courage.
Braydon Iose was especially eye-catching, adding further strength to an already stacked loose forward department while Ruben Love played without the hesitancy of his start against the Crusaders.
Who in Wellington knew who Justin Sangster was this time last year? He looks the part at this level. A workhorse on defence.
Bailyn Sullivan and Peter Umaga-Jensen flourished in the midfield, young, fast and powerful. Is this the best combination moving forward?
Julian Savea looked more comfortable on the wing and who remembers Billy Procter’s last line break? Fitting in a week where New Zealand lost two larger than life personalities on the wing Fijian Salesi Rayasi shows his real potential and personality with a brilliant hat-trick against the Blues.*"
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A summary of the game from çlubrugby.nz
"Absolute scenes at the Sportz Bar in Whanganui when the Hurricanes charged from 14-32 down to beat the Blues 33-32 on Saturday. The two bartenders proudly wearing Blues attire were teasing the patrons throughout only for the majority of punters to erupt with joy at the end. A hearty and welcoming drinking hole with the complementary rum and coke from a gracious runner-up much appreciated.
The impact of the Hurricanes bench was outstanding with every substitute adding zest, skill and courage.
Braydon Iose was especially eye-catching, adding further strength to an already stacked loose forward department while Ruben Love played without the hesitancy of his start against the Crusaders.
Who in Wellington knew who Justin Sangster was this time last year? He looks the part at this level. A workhorse on defence.
Bailyn Sullivan and Peter Umaga-Jensen flourished in the midfield, young, fast and powerful. Is this the best combination moving forward?
Julian Savea looked more comfortable on the wing and who remembers Billy Procter’s last line break? Fitting in a week where New Zealand lost two larger than life personalities on the wing Fijian Salesi Rayasi shows his real potential and personality with a brilliant hat-trick against the Blues.*"
@canes4life I certainly don't remember billy procters last line break
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@dan54 said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
@mariner4life said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
Ah yes, the annual Ardie Savea is amazing because he runs a lot.
A test #8 needs to want to hit rucks, and be effective when he does do it. A #8 also needs to be physical in the tackle.
Test rugby is not won by YouTube highlights.
Should be the first name on the bench. Should not start at 8 if playing a decent calibre pack (therefore can start against Australia).
Obviously you never watched Kieran Read a lot, he didn't hit a lot of rucks, wasn't overly agressive at the tackle, just did all his jobs bloody well as Ardie seem to. Most loosies don't hit rucks whether they 6,7, or 8, they are either the one setting up or usually setting up in attack or defence, watch the 6N test from this weekend and see which 8s do it. Besides all else NZ rugby doesn't have to say 8 does this or that so we should, we should pick players that do a job we want them to do, not what's written in manuals!
Maybe in his last couple of years but those earlier years he was a man possessed and played with a high level of physicality at the tackle and ruck. The Kieran crazy eyes were something else and usually meant there was an almost reckless abandon going on.
Some may not have noticed it because he was running down the left flank and giving no look passes to outside backs or scoring tries himself, but I was never concerned about his physicality until his last year or so.
@act-crusader said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
@dan54 said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
@mariner4life said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
Ah yes, the annual Ardie Savea is amazing because he runs a lot.
A test #8 needs to want to hit rucks, and be effective when he does do it. A #8 also needs to be physical in the tackle.
Test rugby is not won by YouTube highlights.
Should be the first name on the bench. Should not start at 8 if playing a decent calibre pack (therefore can start against Australia).
Obviously you never watched Kieran Read a lot, he didn't hit a lot of rucks, wasn't overly agressive at the tackle, just did all his jobs bloody well as Ardie seem to. Most loosies don't hit rucks whether they 6,7, or 8, they are either the one setting up or usually setting up in attack or defence, watch the 6N test from this weekend and see which 8s do it. Besides all else NZ rugby doesn't have to say 8 does this or that so we should, we should pick players that do a job we want them to do, not what's written in manuals!
Maybe in his last couple of years but those earlier years he was a man possessed and played with a high level of physicality at the tackle and ruck. The Kieran crazy eyes were something else and usually meant there was an almost reckless abandon going on.
Some may not have noticed it because he was running down the left flank and giving no look passes to outside backs or scoring tries himself, but I was never concerned about his physicality until his last year or so.
Was never oncerned about his physicality either ACT, never have been about Ardie's either.
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A summary of the game from çlubrugby.nz
"Absolute scenes at the Sportz Bar in Whanganui when the Hurricanes charged from 14-32 down to beat the Blues 33-32 on Saturday. The two bartenders proudly wearing Blues attire were teasing the patrons throughout only for the majority of punters to erupt with joy at the end. A hearty and welcoming drinking hole with the complementary rum and coke from a gracious runner-up much appreciated.
The impact of the Hurricanes bench was outstanding with every substitute adding zest, skill and courage.
Braydon Iose was especially eye-catching, adding further strength to an already stacked loose forward department while Ruben Love played without the hesitancy of his start against the Crusaders.
Who in Wellington knew who Justin Sangster was this time last year? He looks the part at this level. A workhorse on defence.
Bailyn Sullivan and Peter Umaga-Jensen flourished in the midfield, young, fast and powerful. Is this the best combination moving forward?
Julian Savea looked more comfortable on the wing and who remembers Billy Procter’s last line break? Fitting in a week where New Zealand lost two larger than life personalities on the wing Fijian Salesi Rayasi shows his real potential and personality with a brilliant hat-trick against the Blues.*"
@canes4life said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
who remembers Billy Procter’s last line break?
I got a vague memory of him stepping a semi injured prop in midfied at Hataitai Park a couple of years ago playing for MSP against the Axemen then bursting about three metres downfield before the cover defence got to him. He got sin binned a couple of minutes later!
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@crucial this would work if that is the case and perhaps more dynamic running from all our forwards especially the tight five. I would be happy with Ardie around the fringes with a little more space. I think the attractiveness of a big running 8 is seen across the world in guys like, past and present, Picamoles, Felatau, Vanipola and of course that aussie guy that took us to the woodshed often, Kefu.
@broughie said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
@crucial this would work if that is the case and perhaps more dynamic running from all our forwards especially the tight five. I would be happy with Ardie around the fringes with a little more space. I think the attractiveness of a big running 8 is seen across the world in guys like, past and present, Picamoles, Felatau, Vanipola and of course that aussie guy that took us to the woodshed often, Kefu.
Three of whom have Tongan blood. They do seem to produce great 8s.
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@mariner4life said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
Ah yes, the annual Ardie Savea is amazing because he runs a lot.
A test #8 needs to want to hit rucks, and be effective when he does do it. A #8 also needs to be physical in the tackle.
Test rugby is not won by YouTube highlights.
Should be the first name on the bench. Should not start at 8 if playing a decent calibre pack (therefore can start against Australia).
Obviously you never watched Kieran Read a lot, he didn't hit a lot of rucks, wasn't overly agressive at the tackle, just did all his jobs bloody well as Ardie seem to. Most loosies don't hit rucks whether they 6,7, or 8, they are either the one setting up or usually setting up in attack or defence, watch the 6N test from this weekend and see which 8s do it. Besides all else NZ rugby doesn't have to say 8 does this or that so we should, we should pick players that do a job we want them to do, not what's written in manuals!
@dan54 said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
@mariner4life said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
Ah yes, the annual Ardie Savea is amazing because he runs a lot.
A test #8 needs to want to hit rucks, and be effective when he does do it. A #8 also needs to be physical in the tackle.
Test rugby is not won by YouTube highlights.
Should be the first name on the bench. Should not start at 8 if playing a decent calibre pack (therefore can start against Australia).
Obviously you never watched Kieran Read a lot, he didn't hit a lot of rucks, wasn't overly agressive at the tackle, just did all his jobs bloody well as Ardie seem to. Most loosies don't hit rucks whether they 6,7, or 8, they are either the one setting up or usually setting up in attack or defence, watch the 6N test from this weekend and see which 8s do it. Besides all else NZ rugby doesn't have to say 8 does this or that so we should, we should pick players that do a job we want them to do, not what's written in manuals!
Reado became more physical in tackle over his career. BTW anyone notice how much weight he’s los? Bit of a beanpole now.
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@dan54 said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
@mariner4life said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
Ah yes, the annual Ardie Savea is amazing because he runs a lot.
A test #8 needs to want to hit rucks, and be effective when he does do it. A #8 also needs to be physical in the tackle.
Test rugby is not won by YouTube highlights.
Should be the first name on the bench. Should not start at 8 if playing a decent calibre pack (therefore can start against Australia).
Obviously you never watched Kieran Read a lot, he didn't hit a lot of rucks, wasn't overly agressive at the tackle, just did all his jobs bloody well as Ardie seem to. Most loosies don't hit rucks whether they 6,7, or 8, they are either the one setting up or usually setting up in attack or defence, watch the 6N test from this weekend and see which 8s do it. Besides all else NZ rugby doesn't have to say 8 does this or that so we should, we should pick players that do a job we want them to do, not what's written in manuals!
Reado became more physical in tackle over his career. BTW anyone notice how much weight he’s los? Bit of a beanpole now.
@pakman said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
@dan54 said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
@mariner4life said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
Ah yes, the annual Ardie Savea is amazing because he runs a lot.
A test #8 needs to want to hit rucks, and be effective when he does do it. A #8 also needs to be physical in the tackle.
Test rugby is not won by YouTube highlights.
Should be the first name on the bench. Should not start at 8 if playing a decent calibre pack (therefore can start against Australia).
Obviously you never watched Kieran Read a lot, he didn't hit a lot of rucks, wasn't overly agressive at the tackle, just did all his jobs bloody well as Ardie seem to. Most loosies don't hit rucks whether they 6,7, or 8, they are either the one setting up or usually setting up in attack or defence, watch the 6N test from this weekend and see which 8s do it. Besides all else NZ rugby doesn't have to say 8 does this or that so we should, we should pick players that do a job we want them to do, not what's written in manuals!
Reado became more physical in tackle over his career. BTW anyone notice how much weight he’s los? Bit of a beanpole now.
I noticed that on TV the other day and thought the same thing when.
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@canes4life said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
who remembers Billy Procter’s last line break?
I got a vague memory of him stepping a semi injured prop in midfied at Hataitai Park a couple of years ago playing for MSP against the Axemen then bursting about three metres downfield before the cover defence got to him. He got sin binned a couple of minutes later!
@higgins said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
@canes4life said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:
who remembers Billy Procter’s last line break?
I got a vague memory of him stepping a semi injured prop in midfied at Hataitai Park a couple of years ago playing for MSP against the Axemen then bursting about three metres downfield before the cover defence got to him. He got sin binned a couple of minutes later!
Lol thats harsh Higgins very harsh!!:grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:
