6N Ireland v England
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A few posters are conspicuous in their respective absences from posting since the card was rescinded…….
Not so bombastic now are we.
@Steve said in 6N Ireland v England:
A few posters are conspicuous in their respective absences from posting since the card was rescinded…….
Not so bombastic now are we.
if you knew what the judiciary would do, you should be buying lotto tickets. There was zero consensus on whether that was the right decision or not.
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A few posters are conspicuous in their respective absences from posting since the card was rescinded…….
Not so bombastic now are we.
@Steve said in 6N Ireland v England:
A few posters are conspicuous in their respective absences from posting since the card was rescinded…….
Not so bombastic now are we.
Sounds like you have a bones to pick…
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Colour me surprised.
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A few posters are conspicuous in their respective absences from posting since the card was rescinded…….
Not so bombastic now are we.
@Steve said in 6N Ireland v England:
A few posters are conspicuous in their respective absences from posting since the card was rescinded…….
Not so bombastic now are we.
TBF, they weren't arguing the current rules/guidelines are crap, but that the Ref applied the rules correctly.
We now have the worst of both worlds: Crap rules and Refs hung out to dry for following them
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A few posters are conspicuous in their respective absences from posting since the card was rescinded…….
Not so bombastic now are we.
@Steve said in 6N Ireland v England:
A few posters are conspicuous in their respective absences from posting since the card was rescinded…….
Not so bombastic now are we.
Whilst I agree the correct decision has been arrived at, I would not be basing my argument on “I was right, World Rugby Judiciary’ decision proves this”.
This one is a case in point. They may have come to the right outcome but how they got there is farcical. They deemed Steward’s actions as reckless, leading with the shoulder and in an upright position. By their own rules that constitutes foul play (whether we agree with that terminology is irrelevant here). They then go on to cite mitigating factors, however my understanding is that, by their own rules, if it is deemed foul play then mitigation does not come into it.
It may be a professional game but it is still being run by amateurs.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in 6N Ireland v England:
players being told cards are a lottery
if it's a lottery, people will roll the dice.
IF there are clear, achievable frameworks about what people need to do, wiht consistent enforcement, behaviour changes quickly. The randomness is super frustrating.
@nzzp said in 6N Ireland v England:
@Victor-Meldrew said in 6N Ireland v England:
players being told cards are a lottery
if it's a lottery, people will roll the dice.
IF there are clear, achievable frameworks about what people need to do, wiht consistent enforcement, behaviour changes quickly. The randomness is super frustrating.
This is the crux
Penalise and hard censure
Rolling the dice will soon stop
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Take away the over analysis and ideas of what should have been done in Matrix style slow downs and what you have is an accident. Poor split second decisions that wouldn't have happened had there not been a munted pass.
The next point is the tools and processes available to the reffing team and how they used them. Peyper's use of the 'foul play' step to the protocol was the key. Like some posters here he decided that Steward didn't 'take care' (ie Careless, therefore foul play). Once he started down that road the only way out of a red was mitigation. The fact that Keenean was nearly doubled over and out of control should have provided that but to me Peyper made his mind up first then went through the protocol to justify rather than the other way around. Peyper's whole demeanour and body language was very defensive. He put up walls to reasonable thought and leaned on the protocols as an excuse for his decision.@Crucial said in 6N Ireland v England:
Take away the over analysis and ideas of what should have been done in Matrix style slow downs and what you have is an accident. Poor split second decisions that wouldn't have happened had there not been a munted pass.
The next point is the tools and processes available to the reffing team and how they used them. Peyper's use of the 'foul play' step to the protocol was the key. Like some posters here he decided that Steward didn't 'take care' (ie Careless, therefore foul play). Once he started down that road the only way out of a red was mitigation. The fact that Keenean was nearly doubled over and out of control should have provided that but to me Peyper made his mind up first then went through the protocol to justify rather than the other way around. Peyper's whole demeanour and body language was very defensive. He put up walls to reasonable thought and leaned on the protocols as an excuse for his decision.Watch it again
'Doubled over and out of control'
Keenan was home and hosed if Steward hadn't hip checked him
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Read a stat today that NZ had 14 yellows and 3 reds in 27 games.
Australia have 23 yellows and 3 reds in 28 games.
What sort of fucking sport is this?
In the same time frame as the above , Ireland had 3 yellows.
@Steve said in 6N Ireland v England:
Read a stat today that NZ had 14 yellows and 3 reds in 27 games.
Australia have 23 yellows and 3 reds in 28 games.
What sort of fucking sport is this?
In the same time frame as the above , Ireland had 3 yellows.
It's called learnings
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A few posters are conspicuous in their respective absences from posting since the card was rescinded…….
Not so bombastic now are we.
@Steve said in 6N Ireland v England:
A few posters are conspicuous in their respective absences from posting since the card was rescinded…….
Not so bombastic now are we.
Peyper was correct, the judiciary were wrong
Thought it was so obvious it didn't need posting
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@Crucial said in 6N Ireland v England:
Take away the over analysis and ideas of what should have been done in Matrix style slow downs and what you have is an accident. Poor split second decisions that wouldn't have happened had there not been a munted pass.
The next point is the tools and processes available to the reffing team and how they used them. Peyper's use of the 'foul play' step to the protocol was the key. Like some posters here he decided that Steward didn't 'take care' (ie Careless, therefore foul play). Once he started down that road the only way out of a red was mitigation. The fact that Keenean was nearly doubled over and out of control should have provided that but to me Peyper made his mind up first then went through the protocol to justify rather than the other way around. Peyper's whole demeanour and body language was very defensive. He put up walls to reasonable thought and leaned on the protocols as an excuse for his decision.Watch it again
'Doubled over and out of control'
Keenan was home and hosed if Steward hadn't hip checked him
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
@Crucial said in 6N Ireland v England:
Take away the over analysis and ideas of what should have been done in Matrix style slow downs and what you have is an accident. Poor split second decisions that wouldn't have happened had there not been a munted pass.
The next point is the tools and processes available to the reffing team and how they used them. Peyper's use of the 'foul play' step to the protocol was the key. Like some posters here he decided that Steward didn't 'take care' (ie Careless, therefore foul play). Once he started down that road the only way out of a red was mitigation. The fact that Keenean was nearly doubled over and out of control should have provided that but to me Peyper made his mind up first then went through the protocol to justify rather than the other way around. Peyper's whole demeanour and body language was very defensive. He put up walls to reasonable thought and leaned on the protocols as an excuse for his decision.Watch it again
'Doubled over and out of control'
Keenan was home and hosed if Steward hadn't hip checked him
Home and hosed off a spilled forward ball that he bent to retrieve. If the pass was good he would have probably stepped or pushed off Steward.
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@Crucial said in 6N Ireland v England:
Take away the over analysis and ideas of what should have been done in Matrix style slow downs and what you have is an accident. Poor split second decisions that wouldn't have happened had there not been a munted pass.
The next point is the tools and processes available to the reffing team and how they used them. Peyper's use of the 'foul play' step to the protocol was the key. Like some posters here he decided that Steward didn't 'take care' (ie Careless, therefore foul play). Once he started down that road the only way out of a red was mitigation. The fact that Keenean was nearly doubled over and out of control should have provided that but to me Peyper made his mind up first then went through the protocol to justify rather than the other way around. Peyper's whole demeanour and body language was very defensive. He put up walls to reasonable thought and leaned on the protocols as an excuse for his decision.Watch it again
'Doubled over and out of control'
Keenan was home and hosed if Steward hadn't hip checked him
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
Watch it again
'Doubled over and out of control'
Keenan was home and hosed if Steward hadn't hip checked him
You said above that one of the things Steward should have done was avoid him completely. Add on to that your view that there was no forward pass beforehand, then your effectively saying Steward should have let him through to score ...
Ok, have to whack a few things together there to form that!
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
It's called learnings
Plenty of videos about showing inconsistencies where Ireland didn't get penalised / cards for incidents. So lady luck, or a better disciplined team? Combo of both I think.
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
Peyper was correct, the judiciary were wrong
Thought it was so obvious it didn't need posting
A view only. Not fact.
I don't even know what I think anymore. I grudgingly agreed that Peyper's actions were a correct application of the laws. But now the judiciary say they weren't.
Not sure how the game can move forward with this. They've basically said England were incorrectly plaing with lesser men for 60 mins. It's beyond a joke. How on earth can we go into a World Cup whereby a referee could change the course of a match by a decison which seems right, but then for WR to say it isn't. Imagined losing a knockout game by less than a score afer losing a player in the first half, only for WR to then say it was the wrong decison.
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Mike did you fall off your skis and bang your head? Nothing you are saying makes any sense, at all.
@mariner4life said in 6N Ireland v England:
Mike did you fall off your skis and bang your head? Nothing you are saying makes any sense, at all.
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@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
@Crucial said in 6N Ireland v England:
Take away the over analysis and ideas of what should have been done in Matrix style slow downs and what you have is an accident. Poor split second decisions that wouldn't have happened had there not been a munted pass.
The next point is the tools and processes available to the reffing team and how they used them. Peyper's use of the 'foul play' step to the protocol was the key. Like some posters here he decided that Steward didn't 'take care' (ie Careless, therefore foul play). Once he started down that road the only way out of a red was mitigation. The fact that Keenean was nearly doubled over and out of control should have provided that but to me Peyper made his mind up first then went through the protocol to justify rather than the other way around. Peyper's whole demeanour and body language was very defensive. He put up walls to reasonable thought and leaned on the protocols as an excuse for his decision.Watch it again
'Doubled over and out of control'
Keenan was home and hosed if Steward hadn't hip checked him
Home and hosed off a spilled forward ball that he bent to retrieve. If the pass was good he would have probably stepped or pushed off Steward.
@Crucial said in 6N Ireland v England:
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
@Crucial said in 6N Ireland v England:
Take away the over analysis and ideas of what should have been done in Matrix style slow downs and what you have is an accident. Poor split second decisions that wouldn't have happened had there not been a munted pass.
The next point is the tools and processes available to the reffing team and how they used them. Peyper's use of the 'foul play' step to the protocol was the key. Like some posters here he decided that Steward didn't 'take care' (ie Careless, therefore foul play). Once he started down that road the only way out of a red was mitigation. The fact that Keenean was nearly doubled over and out of control should have provided that but to me Peyper made his mind up first then went through the protocol to justify rather than the other way around. Peyper's whole demeanour and body language was very defensive. He put up walls to reasonable thought and leaned on the protocols as an excuse for his decision.Watch it again
'Doubled over and out of control'
Keenan was home and hosed if Steward hadn't hip checked him
Home and hosed off a spilled forward ball that he bent to retrieve. If the pass was good he would have probably stepped or pushed off Steward.
The first offence which Peyper blew for was knock on by Keenan in the collision with Steward
Up until that point there was no forward pass from Hansen - even though we could see it was - because Peyper hadn't called it
This goes back to playing the whistle
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@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
Watch it again
'Doubled over and out of control'
Keenan was home and hosed if Steward hadn't hip checked him
You said above that one of the things Steward should have done was avoid him completely. Add on to that your view that there was no forward pass beforehand, then your effectively saying Steward should have let him through to score ...
Ok, have to whack a few things together there to form that!
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
It's called learnings
Plenty of videos about showing inconsistencies where Ireland didn't get penalised / cards for incidents. So lady luck, or a better disciplined team? Combo of both I think.
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
Peyper was correct, the judiciary were wrong
Thought it was so obvious it didn't need posting
A view only. Not fact.
I don't even know what I think anymore. I grudgingly agreed that Peyper's actions were a correct application of the laws. But now the judiciary say they weren't.
Not sure how the game can move forward with this. They've basically said England were incorrectly plaing with lesser men for 60 mins. It's beyond a joke. How on earth can we go into a World Cup whereby a referee could change the course of a match by a decison which seems right, but then for WR to say it isn't. Imagined losing a knockout game by less than a score afer losing a player in the first half, only for WR to then say it was the wrong decison.
@MajorRage said in 6N Ireland v England:
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
Watch it again
'Doubled over and out of control'
Keenan was home and hosed if Steward hadn't hip checked him
You said above that one of the things Steward should have done was avoid him completely. Add on to that your view that there was no forward pass beforehand, then your effectively saying Steward should have let him through to score ...
Ok, have to whack a few things together there to form that!
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
It's called learnings
Plenty of videos about showing inconsistencies where Ireland didn't get penalised / cards for incidents. So lady luck, or a better disciplined team? Combo of both I think.
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
Peyper was correct, the judiciary were wrong
Thought it was so obvious it didn't need posting
A view only. Not fact.
I don't even know what I think anymore. I grudgingly agreed that Peyper's actions were a correct application of the laws. But now the judiciary say they weren't.
Not sure how the game can move forward with this. They've basically said England were incorrectly plaing with lesser men for 60 mins. It's beyond a joke. How on earth can we go into a World Cup whereby a referee could change the course of a match by a decison which seems right, but then for WR to say it isn't. Imagined losing a knockout game by less than a score afer losing a player in the first half, only for WR to then say it was the wrong decison.
That's one of the things Steward could have done
It would have been infinitely better than clattering into Keenan and getting sent off
From everyone else's perspective Keenan's chin was so low to the ground he would have tripped and face planted in the next 0.5 seconds anyway
Definitely a combo of both re cards
Your lot need to get the cloak back from Richie
M'lord I present Wales v France in 2011
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@Victor-Meldrew said in 6N Ireland v England:
Colour me surprised.
The second best possible outcome since WR are too gin soaked and retarded to implement the obvious solution.
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@MajorRage said in 6N Ireland v England:
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
Watch it again
'Doubled over and out of control'
Keenan was home and hosed if Steward hadn't hip checked him
You said above that one of the things Steward should have done was avoid him completely. Add on to that your view that there was no forward pass beforehand, then your effectively saying Steward should have let him through to score ...
Ok, have to whack a few things together there to form that!
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
It's called learnings
Plenty of videos about showing inconsistencies where Ireland didn't get penalised / cards for incidents. So lady luck, or a better disciplined team? Combo of both I think.
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
Peyper was correct, the judiciary were wrong
Thought it was so obvious it didn't need posting
A view only. Not fact.
I don't even know what I think anymore. I grudgingly agreed that Peyper's actions were a correct application of the laws. But now the judiciary say they weren't.
Not sure how the game can move forward with this. They've basically said England were incorrectly plaing with lesser men for 60 mins. It's beyond a joke. How on earth can we go into a World Cup whereby a referee could change the course of a match by a decison which seems right, but then for WR to say it isn't. Imagined losing a knockout game by less than a score afer losing a player in the first half, only for WR to then say it was the wrong decison.
That's one of the things Steward could have done
It would have been infinitely better than clattering into Keenan and getting sent off
From everyone else's perspective Keenan's chin was so low to the ground he would have tripped and face planted in the next 0.5 seconds anyway
Definitely a combo of both re cards
Your lot need to get the cloak back from Richie
M'lord I present Wales v France in 2011
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@Victor-Meldrew said in 6N Ireland v England:
Colour me surprised.
The second best possible outcome since WR are too gin soaked and retarded to implement the obvious solution.
@antipodean Was discussing this last nite with a few England supporters. They were pissed off, but pretty much agreed the Red was understandable at the time and thought the whole thing has been caused by clueless, out-of-touch rugby administrators. Much concern about how this sort of shit damages refereeing & on-field respect (one refs Junior games, IIRC).
They had doubts about a 20min Red but when I explained the Super Rugby idea of a Yellow and then a TMO review was a good way forward. Above all, they want someone to take this stuff seriously as it's been a problem for too long.
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@MiketheSnow Did they say it was the wrong decision? genuine question!
Unequivocally a sending off now.
@MajorRage said in 6N Ireland v England:
@MiketheSnow Did they say it was the wrong decision? genuine question!
Unequivocally a sending off now.
At the time, most felt it was a YC
First point of contact was back to the ground
