6N Ireland v England
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A few posters are conspicuous in their respective absences from posting since the card was rescinded…….
Not so bombastic now are we.
@Steve said in 6N Ireland v England:
A few posters are conspicuous in their respective absences from posting since the card was rescinded…….
Not so bombastic now are we.
Peyper was correct, the judiciary were wrong
Thought it was so obvious it didn't need posting
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@Crucial said in 6N Ireland v England:
Take away the over analysis and ideas of what should have been done in Matrix style slow downs and what you have is an accident. Poor split second decisions that wouldn't have happened had there not been a munted pass.
The next point is the tools and processes available to the reffing team and how they used them. Peyper's use of the 'foul play' step to the protocol was the key. Like some posters here he decided that Steward didn't 'take care' (ie Careless, therefore foul play). Once he started down that road the only way out of a red was mitigation. The fact that Keenean was nearly doubled over and out of control should have provided that but to me Peyper made his mind up first then went through the protocol to justify rather than the other way around. Peyper's whole demeanour and body language was very defensive. He put up walls to reasonable thought and leaned on the protocols as an excuse for his decision.Watch it again
'Doubled over and out of control'
Keenan was home and hosed if Steward hadn't hip checked him
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
@Crucial said in 6N Ireland v England:
Take away the over analysis and ideas of what should have been done in Matrix style slow downs and what you have is an accident. Poor split second decisions that wouldn't have happened had there not been a munted pass.
The next point is the tools and processes available to the reffing team and how they used them. Peyper's use of the 'foul play' step to the protocol was the key. Like some posters here he decided that Steward didn't 'take care' (ie Careless, therefore foul play). Once he started down that road the only way out of a red was mitigation. The fact that Keenean was nearly doubled over and out of control should have provided that but to me Peyper made his mind up first then went through the protocol to justify rather than the other way around. Peyper's whole demeanour and body language was very defensive. He put up walls to reasonable thought and leaned on the protocols as an excuse for his decision.Watch it again
'Doubled over and out of control'
Keenan was home and hosed if Steward hadn't hip checked him
Home and hosed off a spilled forward ball that he bent to retrieve. If the pass was good he would have probably stepped or pushed off Steward.
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@Crucial said in 6N Ireland v England:
Take away the over analysis and ideas of what should have been done in Matrix style slow downs and what you have is an accident. Poor split second decisions that wouldn't have happened had there not been a munted pass.
The next point is the tools and processes available to the reffing team and how they used them. Peyper's use of the 'foul play' step to the protocol was the key. Like some posters here he decided that Steward didn't 'take care' (ie Careless, therefore foul play). Once he started down that road the only way out of a red was mitigation. The fact that Keenean was nearly doubled over and out of control should have provided that but to me Peyper made his mind up first then went through the protocol to justify rather than the other way around. Peyper's whole demeanour and body language was very defensive. He put up walls to reasonable thought and leaned on the protocols as an excuse for his decision.Watch it again
'Doubled over and out of control'
Keenan was home and hosed if Steward hadn't hip checked him
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
Watch it again
'Doubled over and out of control'
Keenan was home and hosed if Steward hadn't hip checked him
You said above that one of the things Steward should have done was avoid him completely. Add on to that your view that there was no forward pass beforehand, then your effectively saying Steward should have let him through to score ...
Ok, have to whack a few things together there to form that!
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
It's called learnings
Plenty of videos about showing inconsistencies where Ireland didn't get penalised / cards for incidents. So lady luck, or a better disciplined team? Combo of both I think.
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
Peyper was correct, the judiciary were wrong
Thought it was so obvious it didn't need posting
A view only. Not fact.
I don't even know what I think anymore. I grudgingly agreed that Peyper's actions were a correct application of the laws. But now the judiciary say they weren't.
Not sure how the game can move forward with this. They've basically said England were incorrectly plaing with lesser men for 60 mins. It's beyond a joke. How on earth can we go into a World Cup whereby a referee could change the course of a match by a decison which seems right, but then for WR to say it isn't. Imagined losing a knockout game by less than a score afer losing a player in the first half, only for WR to then say it was the wrong decison.
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Mike did you fall off your skis and bang your head? Nothing you are saying makes any sense, at all.
@mariner4life said in 6N Ireland v England:
Mike did you fall off your skis and bang your head? Nothing you are saying makes any sense, at all.
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@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
@Crucial said in 6N Ireland v England:
Take away the over analysis and ideas of what should have been done in Matrix style slow downs and what you have is an accident. Poor split second decisions that wouldn't have happened had there not been a munted pass.
The next point is the tools and processes available to the reffing team and how they used them. Peyper's use of the 'foul play' step to the protocol was the key. Like some posters here he decided that Steward didn't 'take care' (ie Careless, therefore foul play). Once he started down that road the only way out of a red was mitigation. The fact that Keenean was nearly doubled over and out of control should have provided that but to me Peyper made his mind up first then went through the protocol to justify rather than the other way around. Peyper's whole demeanour and body language was very defensive. He put up walls to reasonable thought and leaned on the protocols as an excuse for his decision.Watch it again
'Doubled over and out of control'
Keenan was home and hosed if Steward hadn't hip checked him
Home and hosed off a spilled forward ball that he bent to retrieve. If the pass was good he would have probably stepped or pushed off Steward.
@Crucial said in 6N Ireland v England:
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
@Crucial said in 6N Ireland v England:
Take away the over analysis and ideas of what should have been done in Matrix style slow downs and what you have is an accident. Poor split second decisions that wouldn't have happened had there not been a munted pass.
The next point is the tools and processes available to the reffing team and how they used them. Peyper's use of the 'foul play' step to the protocol was the key. Like some posters here he decided that Steward didn't 'take care' (ie Careless, therefore foul play). Once he started down that road the only way out of a red was mitigation. The fact that Keenean was nearly doubled over and out of control should have provided that but to me Peyper made his mind up first then went through the protocol to justify rather than the other way around. Peyper's whole demeanour and body language was very defensive. He put up walls to reasonable thought and leaned on the protocols as an excuse for his decision.Watch it again
'Doubled over and out of control'
Keenan was home and hosed if Steward hadn't hip checked him
Home and hosed off a spilled forward ball that he bent to retrieve. If the pass was good he would have probably stepped or pushed off Steward.
The first offence which Peyper blew for was knock on by Keenan in the collision with Steward
Up until that point there was no forward pass from Hansen - even though we could see it was - because Peyper hadn't called it
This goes back to playing the whistle
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@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
Watch it again
'Doubled over and out of control'
Keenan was home and hosed if Steward hadn't hip checked him
You said above that one of the things Steward should have done was avoid him completely. Add on to that your view that there was no forward pass beforehand, then your effectively saying Steward should have let him through to score ...
Ok, have to whack a few things together there to form that!
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
It's called learnings
Plenty of videos about showing inconsistencies where Ireland didn't get penalised / cards for incidents. So lady luck, or a better disciplined team? Combo of both I think.
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
Peyper was correct, the judiciary were wrong
Thought it was so obvious it didn't need posting
A view only. Not fact.
I don't even know what I think anymore. I grudgingly agreed that Peyper's actions were a correct application of the laws. But now the judiciary say they weren't.
Not sure how the game can move forward with this. They've basically said England were incorrectly plaing with lesser men for 60 mins. It's beyond a joke. How on earth can we go into a World Cup whereby a referee could change the course of a match by a decison which seems right, but then for WR to say it isn't. Imagined losing a knockout game by less than a score afer losing a player in the first half, only for WR to then say it was the wrong decison.
@MajorRage said in 6N Ireland v England:
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
Watch it again
'Doubled over and out of control'
Keenan was home and hosed if Steward hadn't hip checked him
You said above that one of the things Steward should have done was avoid him completely. Add on to that your view that there was no forward pass beforehand, then your effectively saying Steward should have let him through to score ...
Ok, have to whack a few things together there to form that!
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
It's called learnings
Plenty of videos about showing inconsistencies where Ireland didn't get penalised / cards for incidents. So lady luck, or a better disciplined team? Combo of both I think.
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
Peyper was correct, the judiciary were wrong
Thought it was so obvious it didn't need posting
A view only. Not fact.
I don't even know what I think anymore. I grudgingly agreed that Peyper's actions were a correct application of the laws. But now the judiciary say they weren't.
Not sure how the game can move forward with this. They've basically said England were incorrectly plaing with lesser men for 60 mins. It's beyond a joke. How on earth can we go into a World Cup whereby a referee could change the course of a match by a decison which seems right, but then for WR to say it isn't. Imagined losing a knockout game by less than a score afer losing a player in the first half, only for WR to then say it was the wrong decison.
That's one of the things Steward could have done
It would have been infinitely better than clattering into Keenan and getting sent off
From everyone else's perspective Keenan's chin was so low to the ground he would have tripped and face planted in the next 0.5 seconds anyway
Definitely a combo of both re cards
Your lot need to get the cloak back from Richie
M'lord I present Wales v France in 2011
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@Victor-Meldrew said in 6N Ireland v England:
Colour me surprised.
The second best possible outcome since WR are too gin soaked and retarded to implement the obvious solution.
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@MajorRage said in 6N Ireland v England:
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
Watch it again
'Doubled over and out of control'
Keenan was home and hosed if Steward hadn't hip checked him
You said above that one of the things Steward should have done was avoid him completely. Add on to that your view that there was no forward pass beforehand, then your effectively saying Steward should have let him through to score ...
Ok, have to whack a few things together there to form that!
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
It's called learnings
Plenty of videos about showing inconsistencies where Ireland didn't get penalised / cards for incidents. So lady luck, or a better disciplined team? Combo of both I think.
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
Peyper was correct, the judiciary were wrong
Thought it was so obvious it didn't need posting
A view only. Not fact.
I don't even know what I think anymore. I grudgingly agreed that Peyper's actions were a correct application of the laws. But now the judiciary say they weren't.
Not sure how the game can move forward with this. They've basically said England were incorrectly plaing with lesser men for 60 mins. It's beyond a joke. How on earth can we go into a World Cup whereby a referee could change the course of a match by a decison which seems right, but then for WR to say it isn't. Imagined losing a knockout game by less than a score afer losing a player in the first half, only for WR to then say it was the wrong decison.
That's one of the things Steward could have done
It would have been infinitely better than clattering into Keenan and getting sent off
From everyone else's perspective Keenan's chin was so low to the ground he would have tripped and face planted in the next 0.5 seconds anyway
Definitely a combo of both re cards
Your lot need to get the cloak back from Richie
M'lord I present Wales v France in 2011
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@Victor-Meldrew said in 6N Ireland v England:
Colour me surprised.
The second best possible outcome since WR are too gin soaked and retarded to implement the obvious solution.
@antipodean Was discussing this last nite with a few England supporters. They were pissed off, but pretty much agreed the Red was understandable at the time and thought the whole thing has been caused by clueless, out-of-touch rugby administrators. Much concern about how this sort of shit damages refereeing & on-field respect (one refs Junior games, IIRC).
They had doubts about a 20min Red but when I explained the Super Rugby idea of a Yellow and then a TMO review was a good way forward. Above all, they want someone to take this stuff seriously as it's been a problem for too long.
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@MiketheSnow Did they say it was the wrong decision? genuine question!
Unequivocally a sending off now.
@MajorRage said in 6N Ireland v England:
@MiketheSnow Did they say it was the wrong decision? genuine question!
Unequivocally a sending off now.
At the time, most felt it was a YC
First point of contact was back to the ground
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Could have posted in the NH club rugby thread but felt it more relevant here.
Sundays European Cup game between Exeter and Montpellier was a thriller, won by Exeter on try count back after extra time. The game was marred by a marginal red card on the Montpellier No8 for a high tackle/head contact. The sanction was really driven by the TMO who really seemed to be more influential than the ref. It’s rumoured that again this has been ruled a wrong call in retrospect.
More thought in this area please World Rugby.
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Could have posted in the NH club rugby thread but felt it more relevant here.
Sundays European Cup game between Exeter and Montpellier was a thriller, won by Exeter on try count back after extra time. The game was marred by a marginal red card on the Montpellier No8 for a high tackle/head contact. The sanction was really driven by the TMO who really seemed to be more influential than the ref. It’s rumoured that again this has been ruled a wrong call in retrospect.
More thought in this area please World Rugby.
@Catogrande LOL, yeah I was wondering about that card. Was a tense game!
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Here's the decision on that red card:
Zach Mercer red card dismissed
The Montpellier Hérault Rugby No 8, Zach Mercer, has had the red card shown to him during his club’s Heineken Champions Cup, Round of 16 match against the Exeter Chiefs at Sandy Park, dismissed following an independent Disciplinary Hearing.
Mercer was sent off by the referee, Andrew Brace (Ireland), in the 50th minute of the match for tackling the Exeter Chiefs back row, Christ Tshiunza, in a dangerous manner in contravention of Law 9.13.
>Law 9.13 A player must not tackle an opponent dangerously
Under World Rugby’s Sanctions for Foul Play, Law 9.13 relating to dangerous tackling carries the following sanction entry points – Low End: 2 weeks; Mid-range: 6 weeks; Top end: 10 to 52 weeks.
An independent Disciplinary Committee comprising David Martin (Ireland), Chair, Gordon Black (Ireland) and Bogdan Zebega (Romania), viewed footage of the incident and heard evidence by video conference from Mercer, who accepted that he had committed an act of foul play but did not accept that it warranted a red card.
The committee also heard submissions from the Montpellier Hérault Rugby Director of Rugby, Philippe Saint André, from the club’s Defence and Laws Coach, Alex Ruiz, from the club’s Team Manager, Tom Whitford, and from the EPCR Disciplinary Officer, Liam McTiernan. The club’s legal representative, Joris Loupien, was also present during the hearing.
The committee decided that although Mercer had committed an act of foul play, the tackle did not warrant a red card. The sending off was therefore dismissed and Mercer is free to play.
EPCR have the right to appeal the decision.
