Final: Chiefs v Crusaders
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Has anyone mentioned how Nankivell's pass to Stevenson at 42:13, in the same play as the Narawa try, went forward out of the hands and floated a metre forward? Right at 3:00 in this video, pretty clear if you click on the cog to slow it down.
Winza win.
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Has anyone mentioned how Nankivell's pass to Stevenson at 42:13, in the same play as the Narawa try, went forward out of the hands and floated a metre forward? Right at 3:00 in this video, pretty clear if you click on the cog to slow it down.
Winza win.
@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Has anyone mentioned how Nankivell's pass to Stevenson at 42:13, in the same play as the Narawa try, went forward out of the hands and floated a metre forward? Right at 3:00 in this video, pretty clear if you click on the cog to slow it down.
Winza win.
The pass was marginal but would rarely (or never) be deemed as a forward pass
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Big reffing error if right. Also the forward pass that was missed
*27th minute – Yellow card to Chiefs’ Luke Jacobson
With the Crusaders charging 10 metres from the tryline, Chiefs No 8 Jacobson went hunting for a relieving turnover.Only thing was, O’Keeffe believed he wasn’t adequately supporting his body weight at the ruck, and, having already warned co-captain Sam Cane about his side’s discipline, the ref had no hesitation in pulling out a yellow card for repeated infringements.
While that team warning had come back at the 13-minute mark, the fact the offence was committed close to the line, and there had already been a yellow card against the Chiefs as well, escalated the sanction.
Looking back at it, though, the hosts could feel hard done by, with Jacobson seemingly in good body position, and it was tough to see the left hand on the ground helping him that O’Keeffe had described.
It was a big moment, with the Crusaders, 10-3 down at the time, duly profiting from the resulting lineout, then going over again while Jacobson was still in the bin.*
34th minute – Missed Crusaders forward pass
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Big reffing error if right. Also the forward pass that was missed
*27th minute – Yellow card to Chiefs’ Luke Jacobson
With the Crusaders charging 10 metres from the tryline, Chiefs No 8 Jacobson went hunting for a relieving turnover.Only thing was, O’Keeffe believed he wasn’t adequately supporting his body weight at the ruck, and, having already warned co-captain Sam Cane about his side’s discipline, the ref had no hesitation in pulling out a yellow card for repeated infringements.
While that team warning had come back at the 13-minute mark, the fact the offence was committed close to the line, and there had already been a yellow card against the Chiefs as well, escalated the sanction.
Looking back at it, though, the hosts could feel hard done by, with Jacobson seemingly in good body position, and it was tough to see the left hand on the ground helping him that O’Keeffe had described.
It was a big moment, with the Crusaders, 10-3 down at the time, duly profiting from the resulting lineout, then going over again while Jacobson was still in the bin.*
34th minute – Missed Crusaders forward pass
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@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Whereas the Chiefs were denied a try by the same group on quite technical grounds.
Chiefs supporter here.
You talking Narawa off DMac?
He was about 4m offside. Hard to whinge about.
Bit like checking if the chaser is in front of the kicker.
That's technical too.
Laws aren't guidelines or gut feel.
@booboo said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Whereas the Chiefs were denied a try by the same group on quite technical grounds.
Chiefs supporter here.
You talking Narawa off DMac?
He was about 4m offside. Hard to whinge about.
Bit like checking if the chaser is in front of the kicker.
That's technical too.
Laws aren't guidelines or gut feel.
Pre TMO the Narawa non-try stands.
I'm familiar with the rule, but BOK and touchies all missed it real time, as they did forward pass before Mo'unga non-try.
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@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@TJ said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman ah, the forward pass that lead to a Crusaders lineout near halfway was the crucial game changing decision that warrants all the complaining?
Should've been picked up for sure, but there were a lot of other things that the Chiefs had to get wrong to turn that into a try.
You've got your mind set on being a victim tonight so I'll leave you to that.
No. The point is that if we are going to embrace technology we need to do it properly, in particular in finals.
Either both second Narawa and Mo'unga tries get scrubbed because the officials are competent, or both let stand incorrectly.
That was a 14 point swing, which in a nutshell was the ballgame.
If you can't grasp that, I'm afraid I'll have to leave you to your ignorant bliss.
How far do you want to take it though. The forward pass was several plays before Mo'unga scored. They didn't score directly from it.
The point is, the Chiefs didn't defend well enough from that situation. The missed forward pass is no different to the not-straight lineout through from the Chiefs with 3 minutes to go. Scott Barrett knocked it on and the Chiefs got the ball back. The difference is the Chiefs shat the bed and went back 40 metres whereas the Crusaders took their chance and scored. It's not all about the referees, there are players out there. The Chiefs just weren't good enough.
@hydro11 said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@TJ said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman ah, the forward pass that lead to a Crusaders lineout near halfway was the crucial game changing decision that warrants all the complaining?
Should've been picked up for sure, but there were a lot of other things that the Chiefs had to get wrong to turn that into a try.
You've got your mind set on being a victim tonight so I'll leave you to that.
No. The point is that if we are going to embrace technology we need to do it properly, in particular in finals.
Either both second Narawa and Mo'unga tries get scrubbed because the officials are competent, or both let stand incorrectly.
That was a 14 point swing, which in a nutshell was the ballgame.
If you can't grasp that, I'm afraid I'll have to leave you to your ignorant bliss.
How far do you want to take it though. The forward pass was several plays before Mo'unga scored. They didn't score directly from it.
The point is, the Chiefs didn't defend well enough from that situation. The missed forward pass is no different to the not-straight lineout through from the Chiefs with 3 minutes to go. Scott Barrett knocked it on and the Chiefs got the ball back. The difference is the Chiefs shat the bed and went back 40 metres whereas the Crusaders took their chance and scored. It's not all about the referees, there are players out there. The Chiefs just weren't good enough.
So if TMO hadn't correctly called back second Narawa try you'd have been fine because Jesters weren't good enough to stop it?
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@booboo said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Whereas the Chiefs were denied a try by the same group on quite technical grounds.
Chiefs supporter here.
You talking Narawa off DMac?
He was about 4m offside. Hard to whinge about.
Bit like checking if the chaser is in front of the kicker.
That's technical too.
Laws aren't guidelines or gut feel.
Pre TMO the Narawa non-try stands.
I'm familiar with the rule, but BOK and touchies all missed it real time, as they did forward pass before Mo'unga non-try.
@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@booboo said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Whereas the Chiefs were denied a try by the same group on quite technical grounds.
Chiefs supporter here.
You talking Narawa off DMac?
He was about 4m offside. Hard to whinge about.
Bit like checking if the chaser is in front of the kicker.
That's technical too.
Laws aren't guidelines or gut feel.
Pre TMO the Narawa non-try stands.
I'm familiar with the rule, but BOK and touchies all missed it real time, as they did forward pass before Mo'unga non-try.
But we have a TMO now.
We no longer live in the 1980s.
And the decision was correct.
He was offside.
By several metres.
Hated it as my side's try was ruled out.
But the evidence ...
I really don't get your point.
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@Stag said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman you my friend are the definition of a sore loser. The best team won.
I'm a neutral. Just a fan who doesn't take to tournament finals being decided by gross refereeing errors. Deep down I'd say the Jesters know the truth.
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@Bovidae said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
The long forward pass was right in front of me. Gardner seemed asleep. The TMO needs to do their job and not just pick and choose when to intervene.
I know I keep banging on about it, but he's just not up to standard.
@antipodean said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bovidae said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
The long forward pass was right in front of me. Gardner seemed asleep. The TMO needs to do their job and not just pick and choose when to intervene.
I know I keep banging on about it, but he's just not up to standard.
The role of TMO has become so influential that we need two top operators to fill role. One to explain the maths/physics of the picture and one who is expert on the Laws/protocols.
Oh and if TMO spots massive miss by ref he ought to tell him real time. Seems to happen in some games but not others.
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@SBW1 said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
That’s the second time I have read a review with LF given a 9? Didn’t think he had as much impact on this game as prior games. Abrasive but didn’t break any tackles on attack.
@kev said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@SBW1 said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
That’s the second time I have read a review with LF given a 9? Didn’t think he had as much impact on this game as prior games. Abrasive but didn’t break any tackles on attack.
Chiefs had correctly identified that if they tackled him early it took away much of Jester's attacking threat. Jordan too.
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@kev defensively he was a machine and playing like a 4th loosie. A little quieter in attack and that is in large part to a very good defensive system that McMillan runs. But he was still well involved carting the ball up.
@ACT-Crusader said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@kev defensively he was a machine and playing like a 4th loosie. A little quieter in attack and that is in large part to a very good defensive system that McMillan runs. But he was still well involved carting the ball up.
His late turnovers kept Jesters in match.
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@pakman You have to realise that if they had gone back for the scrum for the forward pass that the entire game would have changed from that point. Without a crystal ball we will never know who would have won in that case.
@Nevorian said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman You have to realise that if they had gone back for the scrum for the forward pass that the entire game would have changed from that point. Without a crystal ball we will never know who would have won in that case.
I usually would totally agree, but it was that close to halftime I beg to differ on that. No just me: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/132412238/a-lot-of-hurt-gutted-chiefs-feel-the-pain-as-crusaders-triumph-yet-again
In fact, had it been 10-8 at HT, then at 20-8 I tend to the view that the tiring Jesters would been blown away.
But almost certain Chiefs would have been crowned proper champions.
It really does suck to follow an entire tournament and see it after four months deliver a duff outcome.
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@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@booboo said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Whereas the Chiefs were denied a try by the same group on quite technical grounds.
Chiefs supporter here.
You talking Narawa off DMac?
He was about 4m offside. Hard to whinge about.
Bit like checking if the chaser is in front of the kicker.
That's technical too.
Laws aren't guidelines or gut feel.
Pre TMO the Narawa non-try stands.
I'm familiar with the rule, but BOK and touchies all missed it real time, as they did forward pass before Mo'unga non-try.
But we have a TMO now.
We no longer live in the 1980s.
And the decision was correct.
He was offside.
By several metres.
Hated it as my side's try was ruled out.
But the evidence ...
I really don't get your point.
@booboo said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@booboo said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Whereas the Chiefs were denied a try by the same group on quite technical grounds.
Chiefs supporter here.
You talking Narawa off DMac?
He was about 4m offside. Hard to whinge about.
Bit like checking if the chaser is in front of the kicker.
That's technical too.
Laws aren't guidelines or gut feel.
Pre TMO the Narawa non-try stands.
I'm familiar with the rule, but BOK and touchies all missed it real time, as they did forward pass before Mo'unga non-try.
But we have a TMO now.
We no longer live in the 1980s.
And the decision was correct.
He was offside.
By several metres.
Hated it as my side's try was ruled out.
But the evidence ...
I really don't get your point.
The point is quite straightforward. We know because of the technology (and watching real time in case of Mo'unga non-try) that neither Mo'unga nor Narawa non-tries were valid.
But the officials managed to award one but not the other. That's a fourteen point swing from the opposite result.
The Jesters were able to play the last few minutes in Chiefs half because of that, so, at best, if we allow for the undeniable officiating mistake were at least five points the lesser team.
It's that simple.
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@Nevorian said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman You have to realise that if they had gone back for the scrum for the forward pass that the entire game would have changed from that point. Without a crystal ball we will never know who would have won in that case.
I usually would totally agree, but it was that close to halftime I beg to differ on that. No just me: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/132412238/a-lot-of-hurt-gutted-chiefs-feel-the-pain-as-crusaders-triumph-yet-again
In fact, had it been 10-8 at HT, then at 20-8 I tend to the view that the tiring Jesters would been blown away.
But almost certain Chiefs would have been crowned proper champions.
It really does suck to follow an entire tournament and see it after four months deliver a duff outcome.
This whole "if that hadn't happened we would have totally definatly won" thing is laughable.
@pakman Watch from about 66 mins on, Crusaders didn't kick once, hung onto the ball and took control. The "better team" had no answer, in fact the Chiefs lost the game in the final quarter, they may have had the better cattle but they had no idea how to use it, got the pressure up their noses and imploded, notably including Cane. Why wasn't his yellow card a penalty try?
I said to my 8 year old at that point "watch this, we'll win from here".
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This whole "if that hadn't happened we would have totally definatly won" thing is laughable.
@pakman Watch from about 66 mins on, Crusaders didn't kick once, hung onto the ball and took control. The "better team" had no answer, in fact the Chiefs lost the game in the final quarter, they may have had the better cattle but they had no idea how to use it, got the pressure up their noses and imploded, notably including Cane. Why wasn't his yellow card a penalty try?
I said to my 8 year old at that point "watch this, we'll win from here".
@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
This whole "if that hadn't happened we would have totally definatly won" thing is laughable.
@pakman Watch from about 66 mins on, Crusaders didn't kick once, hung onto the ball and took control. The "better team" had no answer, in fact the Chiefs lost the game in the final quarter, they may have had the better cattle but they had no idea how to use it, got the pressure up their noses and imploded, notably including Cane.
I said to my 8 year old at that point "watch this, we'll win from here".
The Jesters at 8 - 20 would most definitely not have been doing that.
So although I agree they played the scoreboard much better in last 15, they only had that luxury because of a gross officiating miss.
If I were you, I'd just take the victory, and accept that the rub of the green got you through this time.
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@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
This whole "if that hadn't happened we would have totally definatly won" thing is laughable.
@pakman Watch from about 66 mins on, Crusaders didn't kick once, hung onto the ball and took control. The "better team" had no answer, in fact the Chiefs lost the game in the final quarter, they may have had the better cattle but they had no idea how to use it, got the pressure up their noses and imploded, notably including Cane.
I said to my 8 year old at that point "watch this, we'll win from here".
The Jesters at 8 - 20 would most definitely not have been doing that.
So although I agree they played the scoreboard much better in last 15, they only had that luxury because of a gross officiating miss.
If I were you, I'd just take the victory, and accept that the rub of the green got you through this time.
