Final: Chiefs v Crusaders
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@pakman You have to realise that if they had gone back for the scrum for the forward pass that the entire game would have changed from that point. Without a crystal ball we will never know who would have won in that case.
@Nevorian said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman You have to realise that if they had gone back for the scrum for the forward pass that the entire game would have changed from that point. Without a crystal ball we will never know who would have won in that case.
I usually would totally agree, but it was that close to halftime I beg to differ on that. No just me: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/132412238/a-lot-of-hurt-gutted-chiefs-feel-the-pain-as-crusaders-triumph-yet-again
In fact, had it been 10-8 at HT, then at 20-8 I tend to the view that the tiring Jesters would been blown away.
But almost certain Chiefs would have been crowned proper champions.
It really does suck to follow an entire tournament and see it after four months deliver a duff outcome.
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@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@booboo said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Whereas the Chiefs were denied a try by the same group on quite technical grounds.
Chiefs supporter here.
You talking Narawa off DMac?
He was about 4m offside. Hard to whinge about.
Bit like checking if the chaser is in front of the kicker.
That's technical too.
Laws aren't guidelines or gut feel.
Pre TMO the Narawa non-try stands.
I'm familiar with the rule, but BOK and touchies all missed it real time, as they did forward pass before Mo'unga non-try.
But we have a TMO now.
We no longer live in the 1980s.
And the decision was correct.
He was offside.
By several metres.
Hated it as my side's try was ruled out.
But the evidence ...
I really don't get your point.
@booboo said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@booboo said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Whereas the Chiefs were denied a try by the same group on quite technical grounds.
Chiefs supporter here.
You talking Narawa off DMac?
He was about 4m offside. Hard to whinge about.
Bit like checking if the chaser is in front of the kicker.
That's technical too.
Laws aren't guidelines or gut feel.
Pre TMO the Narawa non-try stands.
I'm familiar with the rule, but BOK and touchies all missed it real time, as they did forward pass before Mo'unga non-try.
But we have a TMO now.
We no longer live in the 1980s.
And the decision was correct.
He was offside.
By several metres.
Hated it as my side's try was ruled out.
But the evidence ...
I really don't get your point.
The point is quite straightforward. We know because of the technology (and watching real time in case of Mo'unga non-try) that neither Mo'unga nor Narawa non-tries were valid.
But the officials managed to award one but not the other. That's a fourteen point swing from the opposite result.
The Jesters were able to play the last few minutes in Chiefs half because of that, so, at best, if we allow for the undeniable officiating mistake were at least five points the lesser team.
It's that simple.
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@Nevorian said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman You have to realise that if they had gone back for the scrum for the forward pass that the entire game would have changed from that point. Without a crystal ball we will never know who would have won in that case.
I usually would totally agree, but it was that close to halftime I beg to differ on that. No just me: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/132412238/a-lot-of-hurt-gutted-chiefs-feel-the-pain-as-crusaders-triumph-yet-again
In fact, had it been 10-8 at HT, then at 20-8 I tend to the view that the tiring Jesters would been blown away.
But almost certain Chiefs would have been crowned proper champions.
It really does suck to follow an entire tournament and see it after four months deliver a duff outcome.
This whole "if that hadn't happened we would have totally definatly won" thing is laughable.
@pakman Watch from about 66 mins on, Crusaders didn't kick once, hung onto the ball and took control. The "better team" had no answer, in fact the Chiefs lost the game in the final quarter, they may have had the better cattle but they had no idea how to use it, got the pressure up their noses and imploded, notably including Cane. Why wasn't his yellow card a penalty try?
I said to my 8 year old at that point "watch this, we'll win from here".
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This whole "if that hadn't happened we would have totally definatly won" thing is laughable.
@pakman Watch from about 66 mins on, Crusaders didn't kick once, hung onto the ball and took control. The "better team" had no answer, in fact the Chiefs lost the game in the final quarter, they may have had the better cattle but they had no idea how to use it, got the pressure up their noses and imploded, notably including Cane. Why wasn't his yellow card a penalty try?
I said to my 8 year old at that point "watch this, we'll win from here".
@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
This whole "if that hadn't happened we would have totally definatly won" thing is laughable.
@pakman Watch from about 66 mins on, Crusaders didn't kick once, hung onto the ball and took control. The "better team" had no answer, in fact the Chiefs lost the game in the final quarter, they may have had the better cattle but they had no idea how to use it, got the pressure up their noses and imploded, notably including Cane.
I said to my 8 year old at that point "watch this, we'll win from here".
The Jesters at 8 - 20 would most definitely not have been doing that.
So although I agree they played the scoreboard much better in last 15, they only had that luxury because of a gross officiating miss.
If I were you, I'd just take the victory, and accept that the rub of the green got you through this time.
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@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
This whole "if that hadn't happened we would have totally definatly won" thing is laughable.
@pakman Watch from about 66 mins on, Crusaders didn't kick once, hung onto the ball and took control. The "better team" had no answer, in fact the Chiefs lost the game in the final quarter, they may have had the better cattle but they had no idea how to use it, got the pressure up their noses and imploded, notably including Cane.
I said to my 8 year old at that point "watch this, we'll win from here".
The Jesters at 8 - 20 would most definitely not have been doing that.
So although I agree they played the scoreboard much better in last 15, they only had that luxury because of a gross officiating miss.
If I were you, I'd just take the victory, and accept that the rub of the green got you through this time.
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@Stargazer said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Who are the Jesters?
The ones wearing the phony crown.
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@Stargazer said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Who are the Jesters?
An improvised comedy troupe based at Christchurch's Court Theatre. They host New Zealand's longest-running comedy show, Scared Scriptless, it's on every weekend and they are very funny.
Apparently they beat the Chiefs in the Super Rugby final last night.
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@Stargazer said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Who are the Jesters?
The ones wearing the phony crown.
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@Stargazer said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Who are the Jesters?
The ones wearing the phony crown.
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Something that hasn’t been mentioned was Luke Jacobsens steal off Will Jordon at 21 mins. Pretty clear that Will got his knees to the ground before steal completed. Shortly after at 22 mins the Chiefs get their 1st try.
That’s the way rugby is. Small margins.
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Ok this thread is now tedious and boring. Will wait for the next match which is probably the RC.
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@pakman Thanks for the advice, if I were you I'd accept that bad calls went both ways and whinging about the ref is for poor losers.
The better team won.
@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman Thanks for the advice, if I were you I'd accept that bad calls went both ways and whinging about the ref is for poor losers.
The better team won.
I expect deep down you know that’s not true. One (dubious) win out of three says something to that.
I wholly agree that there were swings and roundabouts on most of the calls. I thought BOK was overzealous on Chiefs in first half, but seemed to turn his attention excessively to Jesters in second, maybe after seeing his blooper.
However, in final analysis there were two major calls on non-tries.
The only way Jesters win was by getting lucky on BOTH of those. Any other combo and they are very worthy no. twos.
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@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman Thanks for the advice, if I were you I'd accept that bad calls went both ways and whinging about the ref is for poor losers.
The better team won.
I expect deep down you know that’s not true. One (dubious) win out of three says something to that.
I wholly agree that there were swings and roundabouts on most of the calls. I thought BOK was overzealous on Chiefs in first half, but seemed to turn his attention excessively to Jesters in second, maybe after seeing his blooper.
However, in final analysis there were two major calls on non-tries.
The only way Jesters win was by getting lucky on BOTH of those. Any other combo and they are very worthy no. twos.
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Something that hasn’t been mentioned was Luke Jacobsens steal off Will Jordon at 21 mins. Pretty clear that Will got his knees to the ground before steal completed. Shortly after at 22 mins the Chiefs get their 1st try.
That’s the way rugby is. Small margins.
@kev said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Something that hasn’t been mentioned was Luke Jacobsens steal off Will Jordon at 21 mins. Pretty clear that Will got his knees to the ground before steal completed. Shortly after at 22 mins the Chiefs get their 1st try.
That’s the way rugby is. Small margins.
I don't think it's that clear cut. The hit semi dislodges the ball. Looks a 50/50.
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@pakman Stop blaming the ref and have a wee look at the number of stupid decisions in the second half by the Chiefs.
@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman Stop blaming the ref and have a look at the number of stupid decisions in the second half by the Chiefs.
So now you’re saying that the Jesters needed poor decisions by Chiefs (which there were several in last 15) AND a glaring officiating decision to win.
We’re in agreement at last!
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@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman Stop blaming the ref and have a look at the number of stupid decisions in the second half by the Chiefs.
So now you’re saying that the Jesters needed poor decisions by Chiefs (which there were several in last 15) AND a glaring officiating decision to win.
We’re in agreement at last!
@pakman Your attempt to say you are neutral is laughable.
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@pakman Your attempt to say you are neutral is laughable.
@Old-Samurai-Jack This is the Fern, nobody's neutral.
