Blues 2025
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@antipodean said in Blues 2025:
The lack of depth in the frontrow is astonishing for a team placed in the largest population area. Their set piece shouldn't just be dependable, it should be a weapon.
Agree with a lot of your post but not this part
It was a weapon last year with similar personnel. I believe they gained more scrum penalties than all the other sides. It was a big part of the championship winning side. Right now there are 4 (maybe 5?) props injured. When you have multiple specialists out your are screwed
So for the last two weeks the reserves props come from outside the original squad. That means they weren't selected in the top 30 props in the country. Plus MP picks up another 6 and a bunch of NPC players go over to the US etc when they miss out on squads. When you are dipping down to the ~35-40th props the quality drops a bit
Same situation at hooker earlier in the year. Where depth across the country is really poor. 15 contracted hookers.. about 8 or 9 are goodish and reliable. When you have to dip into the 16-20th hookers you are in big trouble
@Duluth said in Blues 2025:
Agree with a lot of your post but not this part
Agreeing with this. The population is not a factor. It generates good rugby players, but in the pro era they head around the country.
Kieran Read springs to mind as a recent-ish example.
Front row has struggled. Fusi'tua doesn't seem big enough or good enough in the scrums to me. NZ rugby is no longer developing the world class talents we have seen consistently in the past. And our coaching IP has headed offshore and strengthened others.
Our season was rocked by the losses to teh Brumbies at home and the Landers away. We are very very disappointing at the moment.
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@antipodean said in Blues 2025:
The lack of depth in the frontrow is astonishing for a team placed in the largest population area. Their set piece shouldn't just be dependable, it should be a weapon.
Agree with a lot of your post but not this part
It was a weapon last year with similar personnel. I believe they gained more scrum penalties than all the other sides. It was a big part of the championship winning side. Right now there are 4 (maybe 5?) props injured. When you have multiple specialists out your are screwed
So for the last two weeks the reserves props come from outside the original squad. That means they weren't selected in the top 30 props in the country. Plus MP picks up another 6 and a bunch of NPC players go over to the US etc when they miss out on squads. When you are dipping down to the ~35-40th props the quality drops a bit
Same situation at hooker earlier in the year. Where depth across the country is really poor. 15 contracted hookers.. about 8 or 9 are goodish and reliable. When you have to dip into the 16-20th hookers you are in big trouble
@Duluth said in Blues 2025:
@antipodean said in Blues 2025:
The lack of depth in the frontrow is astonishing for a team placed in the largest population area. Their set piece shouldn't just be dependable, it should be a weapon.
Agree with a lot of your post but not this part
It was a weapon last year with similar personnel. I believe they gained more scrum penalties than all the other sides. It was a big part of the championship winning side. Right now there are 4 (maybe 5?) props injured. When you have multiple specialists out your are screwed
So for the last two weeks the reserves props come from outside the original squad. That means they weren't selected in the top 30 props in the country. Plus MP picks up another 6 and a bunch of NPC players go over to the US etc when they miss out on squads. When you are dipping down to the ~35-40th props the quality drops a bit
Same situation at hooker earlier in the year. Where depth across the country is really poor. 15 contracted hookers.. about 8 or 9 are goodish and reliable. When you have to dip into the 16-20th hookers you are in big trouble
Dead right especially on the props. Mason Tupaea, is he even a starter for Waikato? He looks massively undersized for a prop too.
Hamdahn Tuipulotu. He got let go by Auckland and sent to Southland, where he's mainly on the bench.
These are 2 examples of where our propping stocks are down massively. We have 2 NPC bench props now taking the field for the Blues.
People were on about Fletcher Newell winning the game by demolishing our scrum, like no shit, look at the guy this 30 test AB prop was scrummaging against.
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@Duluth said in Blues 2025:
@antipodean said in Blues 2025:
The lack of depth in the frontrow is astonishing for a team placed in the largest population area. Their set piece shouldn't just be dependable, it should be a weapon.
Agree with a lot of your post but not this part
It was a weapon last year with similar personnel. I believe they gained more scrum penalties than all the other sides. It was a big part of the championship winning side. Right now there are 4 (maybe 5?) props injured. When you have multiple specialists out your are screwed
So for the last two weeks the reserves props come from outside the original squad. That means they weren't selected in the top 30 props in the country. Plus MP picks up another 6 and a bunch of NPC players go over to the US etc when they miss out on squads. When you are dipping down to the ~35-40th props the quality drops a bit
Same situation at hooker earlier in the year. Where depth across the country is really poor. 15 contracted hookers.. about 8 or 9 are goodish and reliable. When you have to dip into the 16-20th hookers you are in big trouble
Dead right especially on the props. Mason Tupaea, is he even a starter for Waikato? He looks massively undersized for a prop too.
Hamdahn Tuipulotu. He got let go by Auckland and sent to Southland, where he's mainly on the bench.
These are 2 examples of where our propping stocks are down massively. We have 2 NPC bench props now taking the field for the Blues.
People were on about Fletcher Newell winning the game by demolishing our scrum, like no shit, look at the guy this 30 test AB prop was scrummaging against.
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@antipodean said in Blues 2025:
The lack of depth in the frontrow is astonishing for a team placed in the largest population area. Their set piece shouldn't just be dependable, it should be a weapon.
Agree with a lot of your post but not this part
It was a weapon last year with similar personnel. I believe they gained more scrum penalties than all the other sides. It was a big part of the championship winning side. Right now there are 4 (maybe 5?) props injured. When you have multiple specialists out your are screwed
So for the last two weeks the reserves props come from outside the original squad. That means they weren't selected in the top 30 props in the country. Plus MP picks up another 6 and a bunch of NPC players go over to the US etc when they miss out on squads. When you are dipping down to the ~35-40th props the quality drops a bit
Same situation at hooker earlier in the year. Where depth across the country is really poor. 15 contracted hookers.. about 8 or 9 are goodish and reliable. When you have to dip into the 16-20th hookers you are in big trouble
@Duluth Good point, I didn't realise the Blues had such an injury issue, much like the Tahs annus horriblus last year.
It does surprise me somewhat it took that long for Newell to look like a seasoned Test prop.
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@Duluth said in Blues 2025:
Agree with a lot of your post but not this part
Agreeing with this. The population is not a factor. It generates good rugby players, but in the pro era they head around the country.
Kieran Read springs to mind as a recent-ish example.
Front row has struggled. Fusi'tua doesn't seem big enough or good enough in the scrums to me. NZ rugby is no longer developing the world class talents we have seen consistently in the past. And our coaching IP has headed offshore and strengthened others.
Our season was rocked by the losses to teh Brumbies at home and the Landers away. We are very very disappointing at the moment.
@nzzp said in Blues 2025:
Agreeing with this. The population is not a factor. It generates good rugby players, but in the pro era they head around the country.
Kieran Read springs to mind as a recent-ish example.
Certainly, but to my mind the home region should be better placed to identify and retain the best talent.
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@African-Monkey I am sure the Blues will be trying to get Sione Ahio back (signed with the Chiefs until 2026).
@Bovidae said in Blues 2025:
@African-Monkey I am sure the Blues will be trying to get Sione Ahio back (signed with the Chiefs until 2026).
I'm still annoyed we let him go in the first place for PJ sheck.
He'd have played 20+ games by now if we didn't stupidly let him go.
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@nzzp said in Blues 2025:
Agreeing with this. The population is not a factor. It generates good rugby players, but in the pro era they head around the country.
Kieran Read springs to mind as a recent-ish example.
Certainly, but to my mind the home region should be better placed to identify and retain the best talent.
@antipodean said in Blues 2025:
@nzzp said in Blues 2025:
Agreeing with this. The population is not a factor. It generates good rugby players, but in the pro era they head around the country.
Kieran Read springs to mind as a recent-ish example.
Certainly, but to my mind the home region should be better placed to identify and retain the best talent.
We are better now!
But as someone said very well, the top 15 or so players in each position get snapped up no matter where they are from. So injuries mean you're dipping into a shallow talent pool.
This gets exaggerated by fringe players taking up overseas contracts
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@Duluth said in Blues 2025:
Agree with a lot of your post but not this part
Agreeing with this. The population is not a factor. It generates good rugby players, but in the pro era they head around the country.
Kieran Read springs to mind as a recent-ish example.
Front row has struggled. Fusi'tua doesn't seem big enough or good enough in the scrums to me. NZ rugby is no longer developing the world class talents we have seen consistently in the past. And our coaching IP has headed offshore and strengthened others.
Our season was rocked by the losses to teh Brumbies at home and the Landers away. We are very very disappointing at the moment.
Kieran Read springs to mind as a recent-ish example.
He wasn't really in the Blues system, the Chiefs dropped the ball. He was due to play for Counties and was allowed to play club rugby in the Waikato but got injured and went to Canterbury the year after.
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Kieran Read springs to mind as a recent-ish example.
He wasn't really in the Blues system, the Chiefs dropped the ball. He was due to play for Counties and was allowed to play club rugby in the Waikato but got injured and went to Canterbury the year after.
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They might have made an offer. Just remembering from what I read from his book and what I remember from the time. His first year out of school he was still involved with cricket too I think. No Chiefs or Blues U18/20 back then I don't think. I wonder if Waikato put an offer in as well.
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@mikedogz I thought he was at Rosehill college, played well and Auckland had to choose between him and Peter Saili to invest in and contract.
Without hindsight you can see why Saili got preferred, he had amazing physical gifts
@nzzp said in Blues 2025:
@mikedogz I thought he was at Rosehill college, played well and Auckland had to choose between him and Peter Saili to invest in and contract.
Without hindsight you can see why Saili got preferred, he had amazing physical gifts
Ironic as Peter Saili was heavily chased by the Crusaders after he finished school too.
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@mikedogz I thought he was at Rosehill college, played well and Auckland had to choose between him and Peter Saili to invest in and contract.
Without hindsight you can see why Saili got preferred, he had amazing physical gifts
@nzzp I thought it was Saili and Nick WIlliams, although Williams is too old to have been in competition with Saili out of school, similarly with Read 3 years Saili's senior, it was probably someone else all together coming out of school at the same time?
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@nzzp I thought it was Saili and Nick WIlliams, although Williams is too old to have been in competition with Saili out of school, similarly with Read 3 years Saili's senior, it was probably someone else all together coming out of school at the same time?
Read debuted for Canterbury in 2006, Crusaders in 2007. Looking at a list of Blues players, only name that pops out in that time frame is Nick Williams, who debuted for Blues in 2005.
Saili didn't play for them until 2009 (Auckland debut 2008).
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Read debuted for Canterbury in 2006, Crusaders in 2007. Looking at a list of Blues players, only name that pops out in that time frame is Nick Williams, who debuted for Blues in 2005.
Saili didn't play for them until 2009 (Auckland debut 2008).
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@Bovidae said in Blues 2025:
@African-Monkey I am sure the Blues will be trying to get Sione Ahio back (signed with the Chiefs until 2026).
I'm still annoyed we let him go in the first place for PJ sheck.
He'd have played 20+ games by now if we didn't stupidly let him go.
@African-Monkey interstingly enough Stephen Bates was at the Waitemata v Eden game on Saturday ,Sione Ahio came on in the 2nd half played very well
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Read debuted for Canterbury in 2006, Crusaders in 2007. Looking at a list of Blues players, only name that pops out in that time frame is Nick Williams, who debuted for Blues in 2005.
Saili didn't play for them until 2009 (Auckland debut 2008).
@Tim I think it may have been Fritz Lee that Saili went through school years with and were competing for a Blues spot with?
