Wallabies v Lions II
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Personally, I thought if that was a penalty, there were probably plenty in every game. The only answer, outlaw the jackler, if he putting himself in dangerous position and you can't clean him out, take him out of game.
@Dan54 said in Wallabies v Lions II:
Personally, I thought if that was a penalty, there were probably plenty in every game. The only answer, outlaw the jackler, if he putting himself in dangerous position and you can't clean him out, take him out of game.
And you have to reset the competition for the ball - how do yo uget it back if you don't allow jackling?
Remember the ELV? They tried to go back to a 'on your feet at the ruck' mindset, but it was a muddled mess.
Two things:
- Professionalism hasn't been good for the game at the top level. Increasing speed, weight and power makes this a brutal combat sport with byzantine laws. Lower levels are far more fun to watch (and probably play).
- I still blame the ELV for us dropping a home test against France in 2009 at Carisbrook. We played all the Super under one set of laws and then tried to come up to speed for a test match undre a totally different set. Suuuuuuuck.
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The problem with that ruck penalty at the end is that it 'should' be a penalty. Lions player comes charging in, head below hips, no intention to do anything but seal off the ball. It's what they are coached to do. Smashes head and neck area of the jackler.
But, this cleanout happens dozens of times a game and the refs just watch it happen. It's bloody hard to then penalise when you do hit someone in a marginal area. And this daylights one of the other problems with rugby - the contest fo rthe ball at the ruck lasts about a nanosecond and then it's over. There is no wrestling or driving over in any meaningful way - so the outcome is this.
And as for the jumping over players to get to the line, well. Rugby goes for performative safety theatre - it's not actually about safely, it's about the appearance of safety.
It sucks, because it sounds like otherwise a really fun game to watch.
@nzzp I see it different, looked like a legit ruck clearance to me. One that happens at every ruck multiple times. If you're gonna double over to try and get the ball, someone's going to try and smoke you. Flying out holding the sniper's bullet from a very minor head contact should always get short thrift.
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@nzzp I see it different, looked like a legit ruck clearance to me. One that happens at every ruck multiple times. If you're gonna double over to try and get the ball, someone's going to try and smoke you. Flying out holding the sniper's bullet from a very minor head contact should always get short thrift.
@Bones said in Wallabies v Lions II:
looked like a legit ruck clearance to me
It kind of is, the way the game gets reffed these days.
Q: do you think that is safe?
Also, check out the first video WR use as an example of dangerous cleanout. Brushes the head - no arms etc. And the third cleanout as well - again, probably not hitting the head but interestingly similar to the game last night.
tl;dr inconsistency all over the place, it's a feature of
modernrugby -
The problem with that ruck penalty at the end is that it 'should' be a penalty. Lions player comes charging in, head below hips, no intention to do anything but seal off the ball. It's what they are coached to do. Smashes head and neck area of the jackler.
But, this cleanout happens dozens of times a game and the refs just watch it happen. It's bloody hard to then penalise when you do hit someone in a marginal area. And this daylights one of the other problems with rugby - the contest fo rthe ball at the ruck lasts about a nanosecond and then it's over. There is no wrestling or driving over in any meaningful way - so the outcome is this.
And as for the jumping over players to get to the line, well. Rugby goes for performative safety theatre - it's not actually about safely, it's about the appearance of safety.
It sucks, because it sounds like otherwise a really fun game to watch.
@nzzp said in Wallabies v Lions II:
The problem with that ruck penalty at the end is that it 'should' be a penalty. Lions player comes charging in, head below hips, no intention to do anything but seal off the ball. It's what they are coached to do. Smashes head and neck area of the jackler.
A decade or more ago he'd have been penalised for not attempting to stay on his feet. But it's many years since the referees consistently enforced that one.
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@nzzp I see it different, looked like a legit ruck clearance to me. One that happens at every ruck multiple times. If you're gonna double over to try and get the ball, someone's going to try and smoke you. Flying out holding the sniper's bullet from a very minor head contact should always get short thrift.
@Bones said in Wallabies v Lions II:
@nzzp I see it different, looked like a legit ruck clearance to me. One that happens at every ruck multiple times. If you're gonna double over to try and get the ball, someone's going to try and smoke you. Flying out holding the sniper's bullet from a very minor head contact should always get short thrift.
Looking at it again it wasn't even a ruck. Still only a tackle when Morgan arrives because Morgan is the first Lions player there.
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that penalty/non penalty probably sums up rugby at the moment.contact with head is a penalty except when its not.
I'm happy it's wasn't called because what could Morgan have done he got low wasn't upright made head contact because other guy was low as well
but as we have seen countless times before head contact is automatic penalty. -
If that’s illegal then the whole game has to change, Watch the ruck before that last clear out again, exactly the same thing happened but no Hollywood so no one mentions it.
In the last ruck, the Australian player was never behind the back foot, came in from the side and got cleared out exactly as we would watch any other player do.
It’s either a problem or it isn’t. If it is, then we need to fundamentally change how competing for the ball happens
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@nzzp I see it different, looked like a legit ruck clearance to me. One that happens at every ruck multiple times. If you're gonna double over to try and get the ball, someone's going to try and smoke you. Flying out holding the sniper's bullet from a very minor head contact should always get short thrift.
@Bones said in Wallabies v Lions II:
One that happens at every ruck multiple times.
And we have mauls that are illegal all the time, but only the ones leading up to tries are cross-examined for obstruction. :man_shrugging:
Whatever. It's gone now. We gave up an 18 point lead and it'll be another barren year as we get pumped by everyone in TRC.
The sky isn't falling; it has fallen. I'm far enough inside the tent to see that we're never getting out of this hole because nobody in Australian rugby really wants meaningful change.
Micro example: I had to referee a game yesterday, because the association didn't have refs available for our game.
Meanwhile, 18 schools games had referees in the Saturday afternoon timeslot. Which sounds great until you realise:
A. they could play midweek because they're fucking SCHOOLS, and
B. schools don't give a flying fuck about any other part of the rugby landscape; they just care about putting names of Waratahs/Wallabies up in gold leaf on an honour board and pumping obscene amounts of money into beating their old rivals. -
@MiketheSnow yeah I thought Lynagh looked at home. I'd take him in the ABs just for the kicking from hand. Actually.... reminds me of Plummer.
@Bones said in Wallabies v Lions II:
@MiketheSnow yeah I thought Lynagh looked at home. I'd take him in the ABs just for the kicking from hand. Actually.... reminds me of Plummer.
I must admit, a couple of times I almost felt a little jealous when the Wallabies kicked deep into the corners to put the Lions' LO under pressure
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Well Morgan Turinui has done his job. As the token rugby guy the first thing I was asked at footy this morning was about "that penalty"
Robbery narrative set in stone
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that penalty/non penalty probably sums up rugby at the moment.contact with head is a penalty except when its not.
I'm happy it's wasn't called because what could Morgan have done he got low wasn't upright made head contact because other guy was low as well
but as we have seen countless times before head contact is automatic penalty.@ploughboy said in Wallabies v Lions II:
that penalty/non penalty probably sums up rugby at the moment.contact with head is a penalty except when its not.
Agree 100% with that.
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Head contact isn’t always a penalty. The first question is “ was there foul play”. The flow diagram the refs follow even mentions something like “no fault rugby collision”
No foul play, but those cleaners had no intention of staying on their feet. But that rule was ignored throughout the game
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@Bones said in Wallabies v Lions II:
One that happens at every ruck multiple times.
And we have mauls that are illegal all the time, but only the ones leading up to tries are cross-examined for obstruction. :man_shrugging:
Whatever. It's gone now. We gave up an 18 point lead and it'll be another barren year as we get pumped by everyone in TRC.
The sky isn't falling; it has fallen. I'm far enough inside the tent to see that we're never getting out of this hole because nobody in Australian rugby really wants meaningful change.
Micro example: I had to referee a game yesterday, because the association didn't have refs available for our game.
Meanwhile, 18 schools games had referees in the Saturday afternoon timeslot. Which sounds great until you realise:
A. they could play midweek because they're fucking SCHOOLS, and
B. schools don't give a flying fuck about any other part of the rugby landscape; they just care about putting names of Waratahs/Wallabies up in gold leaf on an honour board and pumping obscene amounts of money into beating their old rivals.@NTA said in Wallabies v Lions II:
@Bones said in Wallabies v Lions II:
One that happens at every ruck multiple times.
And we have mauls that are illegal all the time, but only the ones leading up to tries are cross-examined for obstruction. :man_shrugging:
Whatever. It's gone now. We gave up an 18 point lead and it'll be another barren year as we get pumped by everyone in TRC.
The sky isn't falling; it has fallen. I'm far enough inside the tent to see that we're never getting out of this hole because nobody in Australian rugby really wants meaningful change.
Micro example: I had to referee a game yesterday, because the association didn't have refs available for our game.
Meanwhile, 18 schools games had referees in the Saturday afternoon timeslot. Which sounds great until you realise:
A. they could play midweek because they're fucking SCHOOLS, and
B. schools don't give a flying fuck about any other part of the rugby landscape; they just care about putting names of Waratahs/Wallabies up in gold leaf on an honour board and pumping obscene amounts of money into beating their old rivals.All a bit doom and gloom mate. Let’s put it is this way - if Valentini had been able to play a full 80 - heck, even 70 - last night, I reckon we wouldn’t be talking about the ref, we’d be getting pumped for a decider in 6 days time at Homebush
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Head contact isn’t always a penalty. The first question is “ was there foul play”. The flow diagram the refs follow even mentions something like “no fault rugby collision”
No foul play, but those cleaners had no intention of staying on their feet. But that rule was ignored throughout the game
@Duluth said in Wallabies v Lions II:
Head contact isn’t always a penalty. The first question is “ was there foul play”. The flow diagram the refs follow even mentions something like “no fault rugby collision”
No foul play, but those cleaners had no intention of staying on their feet. But that rule was ignored throughout the game
Leaving feet is ignored more often than not but usually when there is head or neck contact it becomes a problem.
