Wallabies v Lions II
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Going back to the Sheehan try, I can quite see his view about it being dangerous but, and I know this is a little different, how many times to we see a ruck near the line and a player picking up the ball and diving over the ruck to score? As i say I can see that it is different, but the question is, how do you police this? A ruck still has defenders which are being dived over. In truth it might have been better for the Lions if he hadn't scored and Slipper penalised for being on the ground and interfering with play. That would have been the third or fourth penalty on the trot and maybe a team yellow. Assuming the officials even noticed the offence that is.
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@NTA said in Wallabies v Lions II:
There comes a point where rugby may have to to accept the jackal has beaten everyone else to the ball and no cleanout could be legal - however we're talking split seconds here.
Totally agree, Nick! BTW I recall David Pocock complaining that his neck was taken a pounding after he was on and got smashed into neck to clear. Think he called for rule changes. Not sure if any occurred.
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Example of one way to deal with jackaller: https://rugbylad.ie/tadhg-furlong-greatest-cleanout-ive-ever-seen-david-pocock/
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@Bovidae said in Wallabies v Lions II:
@Canes4life said in Wallabies v Lions II:
Lynagh is shite. He cost them that game in my view.
Also some dumb decisions by Wilson and Sua'ali'i at attacking rucks. Wilson sort of lost the plot in the 2nd half and wasn't making any ground carrying the ball. Unless they were cooked Schmidt's decision to replace Valetini at HT and Skelton early in the 2nd half was a mistake and proved costly.
Seems Bobby V and both props were gassed by halftime.
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@pakman said in Wallabies v Lions II:
Example of one way to deal with jackaller: https://rugbylad.ie/tadhg-furlong-greatest-cleanout-ive-ever-seen-david-pocock/
Christ there were so many penalties in that sequence, all against Ireland
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@MiketheSnow said in Wallabies v Lions II:
@pakman said in Wallabies v Lions II:
Example of one way to deal with jackaller: https://rugbylad.ie/tadhg-furlong-greatest-cleanout-ive-ever-seen-david-pocock/
Christ there were so many penalties in that sequence, all against Ireland
I count two against Pocockwomble:
- No clear release.
- Doesn't support own bodyweight.
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@antipodean said in Wallabies v Lions II:
@MiketheSnow said in Wallabies v Lions II:
@pakman said in Wallabies v Lions II:
Example of one way to deal with jackaller: https://rugbylad.ie/tadhg-furlong-greatest-cleanout-ive-ever-seen-david-pocock/
Christ there were so many penalties in that sequence, all against Ireland
I count two against Pocockwomble:
- No clear release.
- Doesn't support own bodyweight.
Definite release
Going beyond the ball wasn't an offence then if memory servesIrish 12 holding on
Furlong off feet
Furlong no attempt to wrap
Furlong direct shoulder to head/neck area -
@MiketheSnow said in Wallabies v Lions II:
No skin in the game for TAS this time, maybe an axe to grind - but don't we all with the laws and their interpretation
Brought up some very interesting points and opinions, especially Australian captain asking the ref to look at the wrong thing
As I mentioned earlier, could easily see both incidents reversed in favour of Australia on any other day
Interesting video, the bit that i find most amusing, is that if we focus on off feet at the final ruck rather than foul play (and its not true that head contact is automatically a penalty) then we should be pointing out that the Wallaby came from an offside position, never retired behind the last feet and didn't come through the gate. The sealing off after that (and whilst i agree technically its a penalty, that's exactly how almost every ruck is cleared out in international rugby) is therefore irrelevant.
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@game_film said in Wallabies v Lions II:
The brutal truth on this is that it all depends on how Tizzano sold it. If he dives back with his hands raised. 50/50. If he keels over onto the floor and lays still, physio comes on ..100% Wallabies ein.
well quite, as I think i said above, if you watch the ruck immediately before the final one the same thing happens and the Wallaby who's knocked off the ball bounces out and runs back into the defensive line, no one's even mentioned it as its so normal
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@Dodge said in Wallabies v Lions II:
@MiketheSnow said in Wallabies v Lions II:
No skin in the game for TAS this time, maybe an axe to grind - but don't we all with the laws and their interpretation
Brought up some very interesting points and opinions, especially Australian captain asking the ref to look at the wrong thing
As I mentioned earlier, could easily see both incidents reversed in favour of Australia on any other day
Interesting video, the bit that i find most amusing, is that if we focus on off feet at the final ruck rather than foul play (and its not true that head contact is automatically a penalty) then we should be pointing out that the Wallaby came from an offside position, never retired behind the last feet and didn't come through the gate. The sealing off after that (and whilst i agree technically its a penalty, that's exactly how almost every ruck is cleared out in international rugby) is therefore irrelevant.
I don't think ruck was called. Does that allow him to come in from anywhere?
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@MiketheSnow said in Wallabies v Lions II:
@Dodge said in Wallabies v Lions II:
@MiketheSnow said in Wallabies v Lions II:
No skin in the game for TAS this time, maybe an axe to grind - but don't we all with the laws and their interpretation
Brought up some very interesting points and opinions, especially Australian captain asking the ref to look at the wrong thing
As I mentioned earlier, could easily see both incidents reversed in favour of Australia on any other day
Interesting video, the bit that i find most amusing, is that if we focus on off feet at the final ruck rather than foul play (and its not true that head contact is automatically a penalty) then we should be pointing out that the Wallaby came from an offside position, never retired behind the last feet and didn't come through the gate. The sealing off after that (and whilst i agree technically its a penalty, that's exactly how almost every ruck is cleared out in international rugby) is therefore irrelevant.
I don't think ruck was called. Does that allow him to come in from anywhere?
no, you have to enter a tackle from behind the last foot "through the gate"
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@pakman said in Wallabies v Lions II:
@Bovidae said in Wallabies v Lions II:
@Canes4life said in Wallabies v Lions II:
Lynagh is shite. He cost them that game in my view.
Also some dumb decisions by Wilson and Sua'ali'i at attacking rucks. Wilson sort of lost the plot in the 2nd half and wasn't making any ground carrying the ball. Unless they were cooked Schmidt's decision to replace Valetini at HT and Skelton early in the 2nd half was a mistake and proved costly.
Seems Bobby V and both props were gassed by halftime.
Valetini twinged his calf
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@NTA said in Wallabies v Lions II:
@pakman said in Wallabies v Lions II:
@Bovidae said in Wallabies v Lions II:
@Canes4life said in Wallabies v Lions II:
Lynagh is shite. He cost them that game in my view.
Also some dumb decisions by Wilson and Sua'ali'i at attacking rucks. Wilson sort of lost the plot in the 2nd half and wasn't making any ground carrying the ball. Unless they were cooked Schmidt's decision to replace Valetini at HT and Skelton early in the 2nd half was a mistake and proved costly.
Seems Bobby V and both props were gassed by halftime.
Valetini twinged his calf
Do we know if he'll be fit for the next test?
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@Catogrande said in Wallabies v Lions II:
Going back to the Sheehan try, I can quite see his view about it being dangerous but, and I know this is a little different, how many times to we see a ruck near the line and a player picking up the ball and diving over the ruck to score? As i say I can see that it is different, but the question is, how do you police this? A ruck still has defenders which are being dived over. In truth it might have been better for the Lions if he hadn't scored and Slipper penalised for being on the ground and interfering with play. That would have been the third or fourth penalty on the trot and maybe a team yellow. Assuming the officials even noticed the offence that is.
We shouldn't be seeing this anymore - it's been outlawed.
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Thanks. The only things there though are that 1) it is simply referring to existing laws and 2) that it is not really specific enough:-
Can't jump on top of a ruck
and
Don't do anything reckless or dangerous.
It's stuff like this that leaves so much ambiguity, which in turn leads to things coming down to interpretation.
Just say "cannot dive over a ruck". No ambiguity.
