England v All Blacks
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@Bones said in England Vs All Blacks:
Bear in mind this is a Borthwick team. If we can get on top, I can't see they will have the belief they have the tools to work their way back. If they get on top, I wouldn't count against us coming back. Basically we're lucky he's coached less resolve into them than Razor has into the ABs.
those of you who take any notice of my posts will realise i am no fan of Borthwick but I am not sure this is a fair representation, I think resolve is probably the one thing he has managed to get into this environment. We've won some games late under him, we've stuck in games pretty well. My issue with him is that he can't coach rugby
@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Bones said in England Vs All Blacks:
Bear in mind this is a Borthwick team. If we can get on top, I can't see they will have the belief they have the tools to work their way back. If they get on top, I wouldn't count against us coming back. Basically we're lucky he's coached less resolve into them than Razor has into the ABs.
those of you who take any notice of my posts will realise i am no fan of Borthwick but I am not sure this is a fair representation, I think resolve is probably the one thing he has managed to get into this environment. We've won some games late under him, we've stuck in games pretty well. My issue with him is that he can't coach rugby
Oh sure, the individual players have resolve, but I'm a long way from convinced they think they're on the right path and have the right game plan.
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@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
TSF is essentially an island of rugby reason in a sea of idiots
Island in the sea thst is what we are!
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@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
TSF is essentially an island of rugby reason in a sea of idiots
Island in the sea thst is what we are!
@DaGrubster said in England Vs All Blacks:
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
TSF is essentially an island of rugby reason in a sea of idiots
Island in the sea thst is what are
No one in between, how can we be wrong?
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@Bones said in England Vs All Blacks:
And we rely on a Barrett, aha, from one brother to another, aha.
And we rely on a Barrett, aha, from one brother to Mo’unga, aha
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@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:
ALB sucks as a bench option
Gets a bench spot
Make it make sense....
Makes perfect sense. The coaches are retarded.
You've picked a winger who can play 12, perhaps 13.
You've picked a 12 who can play 13.So an injury to Tupaea can be covered by the winger Fainga'anuku.
An injury to Proctor can be covered by either of Tupaea or Fainga'anuku.
But an injury to Fainga'anuku gets covered by, I don't know, Tosi?
So why wouldn't you ignore the bloke with a proven record playing 11 and 13, and instead pick a bloke whose only impact is to get penalised off the fucking park?
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@Chris-B said in England Vs All Blacks:
It would be interesting to do a detailed season-wide analysis of catching high balls to verify who is best (and worst). Not just a raw score of catches and drops - but, looking at catches in traffic and outcomes compared with expected outcomes - some sort of rational scoring system and commentary.
Unfortunately, it would probably require "someone" to watch all the games again. Maybe he (or she!) can do it next year!
That sounds like an awful lot of work for whoever you’re referring to.
Anyways, speaking of unpaid labour and the exploitation of the working class, this whole high ball-discussion reminds me of a recent Gary’s Economics-video where he’s talking about the rising housing prices. He makes the point that everyone thinks their specific city has a housing crisis while, in reality, it’s a global issue, necessitated by the growing inequality between the ultrarich and the working poor. [Just in case I happened to have piqued someone’s interest, this is the video I’m referring to: youtube.co/watch?v=BTlUyS-T-_4]
I think a similar misconception is at work in the high ball-discussion. The reality is that it’s not just the All Blacks who are experiencing a high ball-crisis. All teams are currently struggling with defensive kick receipts: Welsh fans are about ready to lynch Blair Murray, Freddie Steward shelled multiple high balls against the Wallabies on the 1st of November, Tom Wright didn’t catch a single attacking bomb against the Boks at Ellis Park, and, for the All Blacks XV, 6ft3 Chay Fihaki couldn’t deal with the England A aerials. Whether you're a tall high ball-expert or a scrumcapped Bok midget, the results will most likely be the same: you're going to drop more balls than you're going to catch.
Right now, if your halfback has a solid kicking game, chances are you’re going to be handsomely rewarded for going to the boot. Quietly, box-kicking 9s have been making a clear comeback: Nic White was crucial for the Wallaby success against both the Lions and the Boks, Reinach’s contestable kicking has been instrumental in the post-Eden Park Bok resurgence, and someone like Ben Spencer, the 33-year old Bath halfback, has suddenly become an important piece within the English attacking puzzle.
Galthié has already been criticized for quite a few selection errors against the Springboks but arguably his biggest one was selecting Le Garrec ahead of Maxime Lucu. Le Garrec’s kicks were consistently too deep at the Stade de France which gave the Boks backfield breathing space. Whenever the kicks were on the money, there was little that Kolbe, Willemse and Arendse could do against the French chasers.
Anyway, all of this to say that this isn’t something uniquely pertinent to the All Blacks alone. But where the ABs have been lacking, I think, is in those moments right before and after high balls. What the ABs need to do, more than anything else, is work on their defensive retreat and make sure that any spilt ball from the high ball is cleaned up.
This will be especially critical against England. The English chasers have very little interest in actually catching the ball: they will aim to flood the receipt space with their band of chasing wingers/flankers, making sure that the AB back 3 can’t catch cleanly. After that, they can either (1) attack the space behind themselves (see Pollock try against Wallabies) or (2) release the ball to a backline that is already expertly aligned by George Ford and ready to pounce.
So in my view, while the catch is obviously important, it’s only the first step. What is as crucial, if not more, is the collective coordination both before and immediately after the catch. The AB backline will need to match the speed of English realignment and get off the line, making sure that England don’t have the clean width of the field to attack in these kinds of situations.
@Mauss said in England Vs All Blacks:
Anyway, all of this to say that this isn’t something uniquely pertinent to the All Blacks alone. But where the ABs have been lacking, I think, is in those moments right before and after high balls. What the ABs need to do, more than anything else, is work on their defensive retreat and make sure that any spilt ball from the high ball is cleaned up.
That would require a cultural change within the team after witnessing them give up against South Africa in Wellington.
Ellison's top three bullet points must be:
- Be slow and lazy to realign.
- Don't effectively communicate.
- Be an individual.
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Interesting watching Aussie ex-hack David Pembroke’s podcast interview with two former Wallaby coaches in Eddie Jones and Ewen McKenzie on the prospects for England vs All Blacks this weekend. Jones reckons Borthwick has England 12 months ahead of the ABs in terms of development and believes they’ll have too much depth and power. He reckons it will be close, but England will take it by “a few”. McKenzie, however, likes the AB bench and believes they’ll have the lateral power to go around England to win by a couple of points. Both are highly critical on the use of cards in the autumn internationals. Jones says the English Rugby Union told him when he was there that they could sell Twickenham out three times over when the All Blacks come to play. But the people paying those high-priced tickets deserve to see 15-on-15, he said.
@His-Bobness said in England Vs All Blacks:
Interesting watching Aussie ex-hack David Pembroke’s podcast interview with two former Wallaby coaches in Eddie Jones and Ewen McKenzie on the prospects for England vs All Blacks this weekend. Jones reckons Borthwick has England 12 months ahead of the ABs in terms of development and believes they’ll have too much depth and power. He reckons it will be close, but England will take it by “a few”.
If Eddie is predicting we lose that makes me a little more confident.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:
The oddest feeling about seeing this team is that even when I'm not happy with a team I'm confident we're going to win. I looked at this, which isn't much different than a lot our teams this year (when I've been confident we're going to win) and I instantly thought we're gonna lose this one. Hopefully my pessimism is hugely misplaced.
Lee Germon Barrett is due a big game, hopefully this is it.
Touchstone game for me. We seem to go to shit every now and then and this game is the chance to move on from that.
Interested in how we handle the inevitable periods when we play badly and hope we cope as well as we did in the Irish and Scottish Tests
Same here. I see our tight 5 good enough. If the loosies handle this it's a step forward to the next WC.
Of course forwards are more important than backs.@BerniesCorner said in England Vs All Blacks:
Of course forwards are more important than backs.
A perfect example of “ Awful analysis, incorrect conclusions, zero insight. Wrong about pretty much everything”
Backs are constantly saving lazy forwards, score the points and more importantly get the good looking women.
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@Bones said in England Vs All Blacks:
And we rely on a Barrett, aha, from one brother to another, aha.
You need a bridge section...
# Our coach struggles with his men
has problems with his 10
And his love for things Barrett will never end
But we walk together, a, ha,
Doing selfies with each other, ah ha # -
@BerniesCorner said in England Vs All Blacks:
Of course forwards are more important than backs.
A perfect example of “ Awful analysis, incorrect conclusions, zero insight. Wrong about pretty much everything”
Backs are constantly saving lazy forwards, score the points and more importantly get the good looking women.
@ACT-Crusader said in England Vs All Blacks:
@BerniesCorner said in England Vs All Blacks:
Of course forwards are more important than backs.
A perfect example of “ Awful analysis, incorrect conclusions, zero insight. Wrong about pretty much everything”
Backs are constantly saving lazy forwards, score the points and more importantly get the good looking women.
Bollocks, us men give you girls the ball only to see you knock it on at the first opportunity. However, we keep doing it because we like to scrum.
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@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:
ALB sucks as a bench option
Gets a bench spot
Make it make sense....
Makes perfect sense. The coaches are retarded.
You've picked a winger who can play 12, perhaps 13.
You've picked a 12 who can play 13.So an injury to Tupaea can be covered by the winger Fainga'anuku.
An injury to Proctor can be covered by either of Tupaea or Fainga'anuku.
But an injury to Fainga'anuku gets covered by, I don't know, Tosi?
So why wouldn't you ignore the bloke with a proven record playing 11 and 13, and instead pick a bloke whose only impact is to get penalised off the fucking park?
@antipodean leroy carter can cover the left wing
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oh the oldest debate in the book, you're both wrong of course, scrum halves are the coolest, most important people on the pitch and in the bar, the rest of you do as you're told.
@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:
oh the oldest debate in the book, you're both wrong of course, scrum halves are the coolest, most important people on the pitch and in the bar, the rest of you do as you're told.
Shut up you yappy little fucker.
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@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:
oh the oldest debate in the book, you're both wrong of course, scrum halves are the coolest, most important people on the pitch and in the bar, the rest of you do as you're told.
Shut up you yappy little fucker.
@Catogrande said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:
oh the oldest debate in the book, you're both wrong of course, scrum halves are the coolest, most important people on the pitch and in the bar, the rest of you do as you're told.
Shut up you yappy little fucker.
Mate, i make Henry Pollock look shy and retiring, and you love it
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oh the oldest debate in the book, you're both wrong of course, scrum halves are the coolest, most important people on the pitch and in the bar, the rest of you do as you're told.
@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:
oh the oldest debate in the book, you're both wrong of course, scrum halves are the coolest, most important people on the pitch and in the bar, the rest of you do as you're told.
Tell us all again about your exploits at 9, Dodge.
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Another chance to be a broken record about our idiotic media
"The 25 year old's return sees Wallace Sititi demoted to the bench"
Sititi has NOT been demoted. Repeat, NOT demoted, he has been put on the bench because he is an absolute fucking weapon for us at the back end of the game. You know, the part of the game where matches are won and lost? If he had been DEMOTED as this absurd article suggests, we wouldn't be fucking trusting him with winning us the game at the end would we!!
Jesus H Christ when will these idiots learn that modern rugby is a 23 man game?!?
@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:
Another chance to be a broken record about our idiotic media
"The 25 year old's return sees Wallace Sititi demoted to the bench"
Sititi has NOT been demoted. Repeat, NOT demoted, he has been put on the bench because he is an absolute fucking weapon for us at the back end of the game. You know, the part of the game where matches are won and lost? If he had been DEMOTED as this absurd article suggests, we wouldn't be fucking trusting him with winning us the game at the end would we!!
Jesus H Christ when will these idiots learn that modern rugby is a 23 man game?!?
100%.
They also refer to Parker as having been "dropped" when in reality the thinking was probably more along the lines of giving him some rest so that he would be 100% energized for the England match.
They are probably just looking for engagement and headlines but the scarier thought is that they might actually be that stupid.
