The Silver Fern

Or, losing still sucks.
Hang on, we didn’t lose, we were beaten, soundly.
So, in reality, getting beaten sucks

Yes sports fans, we’re getting set to watch a match nobody wants to play in, and nobody really wants to watch. Yup, that dreaded losers playoff for Bronze.
What makes it potentially worse, is that the Welsh almost have more to play for than the All Blacks. Sixty-seven years of history. A lot of the Welsh players Grandfathers will not even be able to remember beating the All Blacks. The All Blacks on the other hand, will hopefully pull themselves out of the black hole of a thumping, and win one for the old fellas getting their final runs.

But I’m not here to write a preview, my keyboard is rusty, and I’ve forgotten how. But on their last two efforts, Wales just seem to wait around and try to not lose, as opposed to trying to win. They went within five minutes of not losing to the Boers, and didn’t lose to 14 man French mob in the quarter final.

I am digressing though, as jetlagged former front rowers are prone to do after being awake for 36 odd hours. Currently with the attention span of a retarded gnat, I’ll just roll out some random thoughts….

From an English fan about the All Blacks after they spanked the Paddies, “Geez, they’ll be hard to beat”. Which was, word for word what I said to the good wife after watching the Poms spank the Aussies. Unfortunately, my statement was right! Who will be harder to beat come Saturday night I wonder? I think England have more firepower on attack, but will the Boers let them use it?

I think the Boers should be accused of cheating. They have two complete tight fives in their match day squads. I’m sure that should be cheating, and it must be tough going 80 minutes when with 30 to go you’re all of a sudden battling 5 fresh behemoths weighing a combined 600 kilos. Jeez I’m jealous! Trench warfare at its best, and England are probably the best equipped team in the world to combat that.

Aaron Wainwright, the Welsh 6 with the neck of steal after that Froggy elbow jolt look to be a direct descendant of George Roper from the 1970s British Comedy George and Mildred. And then the French fullback looked like a JPR Williams clone with those great mutton chops.

Two disallowed tries in out semi loss to England, the score could have been 33-7, (I know play restarts from halfway after a try etc), but we were soundly beaten weren’t we. No running out of time in this game, after the first 40, we were never winning.

Let’s not get too downhearted on the All Black loss though, take it as a compliment for extended years of excellence. “What”, you say?

Well let me tell you a little story. I used to mountain bike a lot back in the day, and coming back from the hills around Whanga, once we hit the road, there would always be a race. My mate Bam would always win. Just fitter and stronger than the rest of us. We’d try different things to beat him, start the sprint as soon as we hit the tar-seal, leave it late, attack through the roundabout and hope you don’t die, you name it, we’d try it.

Every now and then one of us would have a win, but the next time the tactic wouldn’t work, Bam had it covered, and it would be a race for silver again. We chased Bam for 5 years, I remember beating him once, by the width of a tire, only because I was on a downward pump of the pedal as we hit out finish line, and Bam wasn’t. A bit like the bounce of a ball really, in rugby terms!

Actually, I think he probably only lost 2 or 3 times in total, but to the point, it reminds me of the All Blacks and the chasing pack. Bam always trying to stay ahead of the chasing pack, and the pack always trying different things to beat him, Bam was like the All Blacks with the target on his back as he was the best, always adapting and learning and keeping ahead.

The thing is, we all got really fit, and all got really good at mountain biking, and it lifted our skill levels and fitness. This is what the all Blacks have been forcing the rest of the world to do since when, well, almost forever really, but certainly for the last 8 years since 2011!

The All Blacks have been getting caught and beaten a bit more often over the last couple of years, so time for new things. Hopefully not too much pain before some new tactics are bedded in and we break free from the chasing pack again, and take the lead again. I mean Luigi trained his English team for 4 years to beat the All Blacks, not to win an World Cup, but to beat the All Blacks, that a tip of the cap no matter how you look at it.

I digress, more random thoughts – Brodie Retallick probably one match short of a gallop, that Italian cancellation probably hurt us more than we think.

Why put Scott Barrett in the starting XV, then NOT attack the first few English lineout throws….? Hello?

Complete new broom for All Black coaching staff or not? Vern Cotter still get my vote. If he can, with Joe Schmidt by his side, take the 2004 Bay of Plenty side to a Shield win, then imagine what he could do with a few decent players….

We need more beef on the paddock, our props need to physically, as well as skills wise and technique wise, outplay their opposites. Atu Moli sized beasts please. On props, where were all the big runs that Owen Franks wasn’t doing, done? Laulala was a Franks clone, no big bursts with ball in hand, steady in the scrum, made tackles. Lost 100 caps experience, gained….??

OK, more ordered thoughts next time I fire up the ole Commodore 64.

World cup knock out stages next year, starting front row De Groot, Samasoni and Newell.

Newell has got the prop gig sorted in spades, doesn't try to be anything but a prop, does his core duties, starting at scrum time, and then the other duties of a tighty, and lastly ball running. For Crusaders he is more than handy with ball in hand, and I'm sure at test level it will come too. Made for test rugby.

Angus out to pasture, never been a good enough scrummager in my book. Was selected originally thanks to about a million injuries, never because he was the best option. OK around the field, but first jobs first please!

Laulala can only scrum, offers nothing around the field anymore. And while a good TH, not a world beater, so he can bugger off too. Started going downhill after he left the Chiefs - less gametime at the Blues maybe?

Ofa the enigma. He threatened for years to be the next 'great' TH. But then he will forget how to scrum, or tackle, or ball handle at various stages through a season. Offers more than the above 2 though. So keep him.

Lomax, I'm still suffering from the hiding he took against the Waratahs! But he went OK against the Boers, I thought he'd get his head driven out through his own bung hole, but he did surprisingly well. He now needs to scrum at this level consistently, and he could rack up a few tests.

LH prop, I'm on the de Groot bandwagon. This guy to me is a natural born meataxe. Big, strong, and wants to dominate in all aspects of play, which is the attitude you need as a prop at the top level. I think he and Newell will be our next Franks/Woodcock duo. We've not had a genuine world class pair of props since those world cup winners.

Moody can be world class, and won't have a lot of milage on the clock by RWC, so if he can stay injury free, and get time at the coalface, he could push de Groot to the bench. It would be my preferred pair.

Aiden Ross is another prop who is there for his core duties first and foremost, so is my 3rd choice. I expect the more time he gets at test level the better he'll be too, not afraid to do the hard yards in the dark of rucks and mauls.

Bower, if he keeps improving as he has this season, he could force himself into the mix too. If Moody doesn't come good, Bower may get the nod come match day.

Big Karl was a stupid choice in this season for the All Blacks. He was buggering off to France, was never the incumbent, so can't see he had a lot to pass on to the new props. If it had been a Woody, with 100 tests than yes. But it wasn't, you may as well have stuck a Norris in to get a bit of experience at AB level. Big Karl, like Laulala, went downhill as a prop after joining the Blues. Less game time etc, and he system turning into a bouncer again!

Hookers, Samasoni, Taylor and Brodie McAlister.

Dane Coles, sorry me old mate, your time is up. Unless, unless you get a full season with the Hurricanes, injury free, and play bloody well. So no, you're gone.

Asafo Aumua fourth option. If Coles is injured all season, he'll get a chance to Push for AB selection. But he needs to get his throwing to international standard. Everything else is there already!

Taylor looks like he's distracted at the moment. Perhaps off field problems? I back him to hit the field next season refreshed and aiming for RWC glory. He'll form a 1-2 punch with McAlister that will be the envy of other Super sides.

McAlister, he looks another Crusaders front rower bred to play test rugby. Physically looks the part, a block of a man. I think he'd excell.

Kurt Eklund, I don't think he'd let the side down, but I think he'll only get in if there are a run of injuries. A bit like Angus at TH!

So there you go, youngsters for the RWC for me!

Sitting in a bar in Balian, Bali, it was great listening to comments after we killed the Paddies.

Mainly along the lines of "geez they'll be bloody hard to beat", and mainly from Aussies. It's funny I was sitting there thinking the same about the Poms after they'd dismantled the wreck that is Aussie rugby.

I'm still slightly kaking my Saks for this weekend's game, but then I was worried as fuck about the Irish, so go figure!

But if our fatties can play as well as that again, we should be fine, being it on I say.

Sam Cane, a defensive rock to come on at half or just after, Barrett to bench or replace one of the locks...?

I'm happy with team.

I keep hearing about first time this or that about Foster's tenure. Can we have a list here...

First to lose to Ireland in NZ.
First to lose a series to Ireland.
First 3 test series loss in professional era.
Worst halftime deficit ever.
First to lose to Argentina, the island stealers FFS!
First....?

So a thumping win, great to see, and great to see some captaincy all about winning - take the 3 when it's a gimmie - take a bow Sam Whitelock.

Learnings (to borrow one of the many fcuked up terms that players and coaches seem to spout ad nauseum in interviews).

Learning 1: Jordy Barrett is a 12, and as a centre, Reiko Iaone makes a really good wing.
Big Jordy loved it in close, about as much as the old campaigner Foley hated it, seeing the youngest Barrett charging down his defensive channel time and time again! For the first time this season the All Black 12 looked commanding - something we haven't seen since Nonu was making defenders look weak and feable! Keep him there please Fozzie, perhaps at last we've hit it right putting a fullback into the midfield (Cullen, Muliania anyone)!
Reiko - in the last two tests has shown a complete lack of ability to put his outsides away into a gap. He's got a man with more gas than Russia outside him, and he doesn't pass him the ball - Will Jordan only needs half a yard of space and it's goodnight nurse. Reiko was the best wing in the world two short years ago, the centre experiment has failed. Move him back to his wing please.

Learning 2: We need to find a 6. Like the midfield being spoilt with the GOAT combination of Smith and Nonu, we've had nothing since another GOAT, or close to it, Kaino retired. Akira is not the answer, Frizell is not the answer, Barrett is not the answer. We've had no one dominant in the tackle like Kaino since, well Kaino, Barrett's a lock who tries hard, Akira a show pony who vanishes when the hard work is needed, and Frizell has had plenty of chances but never cemented the position as his. I think we miss Blackadder, probably out best option in 6 at the moment.

Learning 3: Nepo Laulala and Ofa Tu'uangafasi are not up to test level anymore. Nepo especially. He was so slow getting off the ground after making tackles he was in danger of taking root in the turf. Certainly not the agile player that seems to fill the 1 and 3 jerseys across international teams. Ofa not quite so bad, but still not what you need at test level. And who'd have thunk, Tyrel Lomax earning scrum penalties, making years with the ball in hand, and in general being a very good test level prop. Certainly not me after he was demolished in the Super 12-13-14-15 (whatever it is now) while playing against NSW! Ethan de Groot. The more he plays, the more I like him. Horrible missed tackle early, but after that was fine, and has a bit of attitude about him - almost like a halfback stuck in a props body, and making the best of a bad situation! Richard Loe was not afraid of lettting players know their pedigree, and I think Ethan is the same!

Learning 4; Beauden Barrett is best at fullback. The extra room, and the ability to play his running game make him super dangerous, The fact that he has bugger all of a passing game is masked, so keep him out of 10, 15 is for him.
Foster, put on your big boy coaching pants and tell the veteran that's where he's going to play, so suck it up buttercup.

Learning 4: I think we're going to be fine come the next world cup at hooker, Samasoni will be number 1, and between the two veterans Coles and Taylor, we'll get enough time to rest the human wrecking ball at the tail end of matches. Taylor looked a lot more like Taylor, this match, looks like he's getting his mojo back - off field and on perhaps....?

Learning 5: Bring back McCaw... OK, another GOAT, and not just 7, but our loose trio as a trio has been outplayed in pretty much every test this year, generally as much impact as a fly on a windscreen. Only Ardi is consistently earning his keep, and he should be at 7. It's a sad state of affairs when a converted opensider is out best 8. Doesn't say much for Sotutu et al. Are there any youngsters coming through - in all 3 positions?

Learning 7: Plumtree and Moar must have been bad. We had heard that they were only kept on after last seasons tour because of Fozzy, that the players wanted them gone, but... Anyway, the amount of times the players sing Jason Ryans praises must be grating to Foz, and Plums! Another wrong decision from supercoach.

Learning: Or thought 1. Perofeta, Tuivasa-Sheck, why? You don't try and find out if players are good enough for the All Blacks by picking them and then trying to train them up. They earn their place by form in Super and NPC etc. RTS wasn't trusted to come into the 12 shirt for this test despite the first and second choice 12s being injured. A project player? A waster of space selection. He won't be running out in a RWC knockout game unless there are at least 5 centre injuries - Reiko, Jordy, Anton, Jack, David... Perofeta, poor bugger, here's 90 seconds to prove yourself, win the deciding test against Ireland. Another wasted jersey. The selection of Fakatava as a different type of halfback from Smith. Then we use Smith-lite, Christie off the bench. Webber should have been there ahead of all 3, the best running halfback in NZ, and his pass in not half bad either, and his support play and outright pace unmatched by any 9 in the world.

Ummmmmmm 1: I think that's about it, so are we on the right track for nextx years RWC? No. We've still got a coach that is too bloody nice when it comes to giving players 900 chances. We're probably lucky Comin Meads is supping a beer with Prince Phillip and Lizzy a tth emoment, otherwise Fozzy would have given ole Pinetree another chance. So kiss another win goodbye, even if we play well. France is going to be too strong at home and will win their first trophy after 2, or is it 3 finals. They play good rugby too, so good luck to them!

Well if we lose, silver lining. Foster won't be new head coach....

And of course there's chinks in the armour, but the armour is constantly evolving. I mean, I haven't seen the All Black forwards play that directly since first Lions test last series.

And as an aside, all this 'knowing how to beat All Blacks' shit past players are spouting.
Lion's second test last series? So they need to get an AB sent off after 24 minutes, that's a tough game plan to implement on a regular basis methinks!
Boers last year? Get the ABs to gift you 21 points and then hang on!!

I think the only real beating up of the ABs the last few years is Paddies in Chicago and Convicts in Perth. The rest of the losses are just the ABs running out of time to win

On another matter, Ireland did it, Bokke did it.

Injury breaks when they get tired from multi phases. Is it time to just drag the 'injured' player off and let play continue.

Seeing an ice pack on the knee for a minute then the player cured is getting beyond a joke.

I think obvious cases, Faf, Bodie and the five year old an exception of course!

Something needs to be done with deliberate slowing play at any rate!

Me for comeback of the year. It was a long drawn out plan, but the only way I could see getting a gong. If this doesn't work I'm poked

@stodders Foz has never done well as a head coach. 8 years of pain with the Chiefs, Ronnie takes 2 titles in his first 2 years.
Not his happy place - like Wayne Smith, but the poor man's version!

@Nepia said in What happened to Cody Taylor?:

@BartMan said in What happened to Cody Taylor?:

It's sad, watching a potential great AB fall from grace.

It also made me angry that we got the opportunity to watch him further fall from grace in this match, he should have been the one dropped after the first two matches.

Yes, Fozzy sorted the problem of Taylor's lack of form by dropping Samasoni from the bench and installing a 37 year old penalty magnet who's played 10 minutes all year. It's those decisions that make you shake your head, genuine WTF moments.

There was a cracker of a match at the weekend, The Myles MacDuff MND Awareness' Day Charity match.

A Hauraki North Invitational XV versus a Thames Valley Invitational XV. A hugely competitive match won 19-5 by North.

Many familiar faces on the field from International, Super and provincial rugby. Great to see these players supporting a great cause.

The Valley XV fielded a loose trio of Marty Holah, Dave Dillon and Blair Foote, a very handy trio - Marty Holah looked the answer to the AB seven jersey - fresh of winning a championship with Hamilton Marist Cs!

Other names that you might recognise - Michael Collins, Guy Coleman, Scott Couch, Matt Phillips, Dwayne Sweeney (after playing the curtain raiser for the Thames Valley Heartland team), Rua Tipoki, and Hayden Taylor among others.

With the ferocity of some of the physical exchanges, expect shortages of ibuprofen in the upper North Island this week. It certainly was NOT a golden oldies game, the ball skills may have been rusty to start, but the tackling wasn't!

Read about Myles battle here https://www.valleyprofile.co.nz/2022/07/18/match-for-myles/

You can bid for one of the Match Day jerseys here - probably unwashed knowing the vendor! So genuine blood, sweat and beers on the kit. There jerseys are one of a kind - or rather two of a kind as each squad had about 30 players, and kit was numbered 1-15 twice over. Anyway, get in there and big lads, support a great cause -https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/search?member_listing=8249695&bof=pDgQAL1s

You can donate to the cause here https://givealittle.co.nz/cause/long-arms-challenge?fbclid=IwAR3bLtmm-IMK8ZkcnbQ3NEXaXZK5BeP4ay6YAvLqozQWafqSQIs62LHzCLw

Photos from the match https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?vanity=bartsrugby&set=a.541609817491754&cft[0]=AZUrp_jauhpZkK6pr5k9huUGpA1A8XlZGzItbjHJpqzyonvFhnOhZr3Ua_cBIJZnJCOa_ooW9FMV5cYChcx0gsLYc29bZzYJBDurVMEnZTSyiOChSA94kcViyY2C6NtG4IburZVys6UDzQgos7IFgwv_C5-bQCilSAKtaCm-472-u3sey0t7N7YIvxcIyYav_L-BsxAjW8YzmtNnXbO6Q69X&tn=-UC%2CP-y-R

@Crucial said in RWC veterans to be dumped.:

Akira may not fall into the category of veteran but I think he is very much at risk

Yes he's got to be gone. Not even a flat track bully anymore, just vanishes when the hard work is needed!

Noooooo, at the Warung Sports Bar, Sanur, and we've got Australian commentators, And a pile of old tattoed expat Poms.

Never mind the All Blacks, wish ME luck!

Well, I'm happy with the status quo after that last test. We're surrounding Foz with good people now, so hopefully that works. His selection of assistants has been arse, thats now been removed and he's got good cattle in Ryan and Schmidt.

The players love him, the players wanted to give plums and moar the arse after the last NH tour. Foz being too loyal kept them on. Same as his player selection, so hopefully that will change too.

Robertson, again hopefully, has been given the wink for post RWC, and you've got Ryan as the continuity card that the NZRU gets such a hard on over! And he can take whoever he wants in with him. The new broom sweeping clean.

Has anyone mentioned how shit our TH props are for this test? Hardly would strike fear into the local kindy, let alone the raw meat eating Neanderthals that the Boers seem to churn out for their 1 and 3 jumpers.

We're in serious schtuk if we have any scrum on our own line.

Yes, I have no faith in Angus or Lomax, it could be a long night. But will be happy to be proved wrong!

OK, we have a thread on bolters. How about the other end of the spectrum?

1987 saw Mark Shaw and Gary Knight axed (off the top of my head), . 2011, Sivivatu and Rokocoko. 2019, Owen Franks. And I'm sure there were many more, I just can't be arsed looking them up.

Soooooo, who do ya reckon?

CANDIDATES...? I'll get this started.
Sam Cane? Still has zero ball running chops, tackles like a 6 all day, but that's it.
Dane Coles? If he's not injured, he's just recovered from injury or is about to be injured. Spends more time on physio table then on the field.

Who else?

@stodders start Fletcher Newell. Can't do worse, Angus and Tyrrell are dead ends. Throw the new boy in the deep end.

That knee thing is stupid, same as when you put your hand down and then remind. It stops a collapse,so it's not good thing!

As captain of that mighty Valley team, I am making a comeback and am available for selection... tips are in...

@pakman said in All Black props:

@NTA said in All Black props:

IamGroot looks handy. Persist.

Lomax: not convinced. And he's an Aussie FFS!

Bower was better on the weekend than i anticipated - worth further evaluation.

Newell: haven't seen enough.

Of those not playing:

Laulala known quantity: good at scrum, great at brain snap penalties.

Ofa: you're missing him I think.

Again it comes down to second row doing their job and combinations in the front row and tight five

Probably needs another thread, but many if not most locks seem to favour one side or other.

BBBR: Excellent on TH

Romero: Also always (good) TH

Big Sam: Was originally very much LH, but since LR left Chch seems to have developed into a good TH as well.

Scooter: Solid LH only.

Vaa'i: Seemed good at LH for Chiefs with BBBR at TH.

Patty T: Useless both sides. Common to see AB scrum turn to custard when he comes on. Total unit, so must be technique.

Haven't seen enough to comment on Dickson/Lord.

Usually put your big munter at TH, as your TH prop is working overtime on hooker and LH prop. Needs more power. I played a festival/charity match yesrs ago at TH. Had Brent Anderson at lock. He said just keep your back straight son and I'll do the rest. Felt like a D8 bulldozer when the power came on!

Heart says All Blacks. Head says Boers 2 nil.

We can't defend lineout drives. The Boers live to lineout drive. We just don't have the stock up front at the moment, no matter how well they play.

So for me, prepping for 2 losses, hoping for 2 Wins, not expecting them though.

Only positive from these losses is I've learned to bet at the TAB with me head, and not my heart - bet against the ABS in all 3 tests!