The Silver Fern

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2026:

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:

@Nepia There are several factors stopping people going as frequently as they used to. The price, as you say - and not just the tickets. Better quality streaming and TVs. A bit of over-saturation of rugby. More competition from other entertainment. Lower-quality competitions, with no All Blacks in the NPC, etc.

This one might just be me, but Super Rugby seems to have lost its appeal a bit with all the changes to teams and competition structure, South African teams leaving, Australian teams underperforming.

I also think atmosphere decline feeds on itself. Smaller crowds create a vicious cycle: empty seats reduce atmosphere, poor atmosphere discourages new or casual fans and once a ground feels quiet, people assume it’s not worth going.

MY personal experience is also the time, we had so many years of night games creeping later and later, am i miss remembering they got to 805pm kickoff? it just became a thing lots of families wouldnt do....and if you dont go with your family i think your less likely to go as an adult, i dont have kids but i would struggle to get mate to come to the pub or even at someone's house...clashed with bed time or bath etc...and when people did come it was always talked about "beautiful day this avo and was looking for something to do with the kids"...now we're getting some more day games which is good but its definitely not peoples routine

Taking the kids to a night game does seem like it'd be a bit too difficult. Our one kid is too young to sit and watch a game and, yes, his bedtime is (conveniently for watching at home) bang on 7:00. But people must have used to either go with the family or without them. Something's changed there - the cost, time, a different attitude etc - that wasn't an issue before. There were more afternoon games pre-professionalism but that's now a long time ago.

The thing that has changed is the convenience of watching it at home, and the general attitude of convenience. Games at night it certainly a factor, but needing tv money since professional came is the big reason for this. TV pays the money, wants the product at night for good viewing times, and it pretty easy to stay at home and watch it in comfort.
I mean one of fasting growing things is uber eats, just sit at home and have everything brought to you there. Have a peek t how many music festivals etc are shutting up shop as well, it's too hard to go out for some.
Apart from young kids everything else about shit food and beer etc is just an excuse really. My experience is ( I been going to rugby, etc for long time), the food and even beer is probably better now than ever was, usually more choice in both, but crowds are still dwindling.

No Dan. You are ignoring that the beer and food quality in NZ outside of rugby grounds has got a shitload better. Nobody is comparing the offerings at the footy and going "man, how lucky are we? this is way better than it was in the 70s!". They are comparing it to what they can have elsewhere now.

I understand that, but I go to concerts still, and beer isn't great. Mates that go to cricket reckon they don't get great beer either. What sports etc do you go to that has really good beer etc? Genuinely interested. I can get craft beer at a Naki game, and they have food caravans selling a reasonable selection. I will bet I probably get as good beer and food at stadiums in NZ as I got at Suncorp Stadium in Brisbane and cricket at the Gabba. You can't have or feed thousands of people like you do at a restaurant mate, it doesn't work. And you go to any game whether test, super or NPC in NZ and have a look at people lined up to buy a drink or food.
And if people aren't saying how lucky are we it's better than the 70s, they weren't going to rugby in 70s, as you couldn't buy any beers in stadiums then in general, and that was up until 90s (well I didn't see it), and don't even recall seeing food stalls there, though no doubt you could get hotdog on a stick. I still say if anyone says they not going to rugby because beer and food not up to standard is just not admitting really they just can't be bothered, which is ok. Just be honest.

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2026:

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:

@Nepia There are several factors stopping people going as frequently as they used to. The price, as you say - and not just the tickets. Better quality streaming and TVs. A bit of over-saturation of rugby. More competition from other entertainment. Lower-quality competitions, with no All Blacks in the NPC, etc.

This one might just be me, but Super Rugby seems to have lost its appeal a bit with all the changes to teams and competition structure, South African teams leaving, Australian teams underperforming.

I also think atmosphere decline feeds on itself. Smaller crowds create a vicious cycle: empty seats reduce atmosphere, poor atmosphere discourages new or casual fans and once a ground feels quiet, people assume it’s not worth going.

MY personal experience is also the time, we had so many years of night games creeping later and later, am i miss remembering they got to 805pm kickoff? it just became a thing lots of families wouldnt do....and if you dont go with your family i think your less likely to go as an adult, i dont have kids but i would struggle to get mate to come to the pub or even at someone's house...clashed with bed time or bath etc...and when people did come it was always talked about "beautiful day this avo and was looking for something to do with the kids"...now we're getting some more day games which is good but its definitely not peoples routine

Taking the kids to a night game does seem like it'd be a bit too difficult. Our one kid is too young to sit and watch a game and, yes, his bedtime is (conveniently for watching at home) bang on 7:00. But people must have used to either go with the family or without them. Something's changed there - the cost, time, a different attitude etc - that wasn't an issue before. There were more afternoon games pre-professionalism but that's now a long time ago.

The thing that has changed is the convenience of watching it at home, and the general attitude of convenience. Games at night it certainly a factor, but needing tv money since professional came is the big reason for this. TV pays the money, wants the product at night for good viewing times, and it pretty easy to stay at home and watch it in comfort.
I mean one of fasting growing things is uber eats, just sit at home and have everything brought to you there. Have a peek t how many music festivals etc are shutting up shop as well, it's too hard to go out for some.
Apart from young kids everything else about shit food and beer etc is just an excuse really. My experience is ( I been going to rugby, etc for long time), the food and even beer is probably better now than ever was, usually more choice in both, but crowds are still dwindling.

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:

@Nepia

Agreed, I reckon a Giteau rule is the start of the end of NZ's domestic game being anything more than a development league for other comps. It's worth noting that would help Lam btw, but also his rationale was on this aspect was faulty all the way through, so I'd recommend listening to the interview in full.

Edit:

On live games, I'm not going given how much it costs - no only in terms of money, but also the 1 hour drive there and back again, plus traffic, and the shitty food, and shitty beer. I'm surprised people actually go.

Going to rugby has always been thus mate. In fact it used to be you couldn't buy a beer there anyway. But I genuinely think if people don't go to rugby because of shitty beer, they were never going for rugby anyway. Probably same for food, my only concern would be price for people in family groups, but the same in any sport or where there temporary food stalls. I (and mrs) usually have something to eat before a game, and same with having a beer etc.Geez and I drive always an hour for NPC games, never under 2 hrs for a super game and about 3.5 hours for tests.
It's ok to say I don't want to get off couch, got a brother in law who says exactly that, why go out when I can watch it from couch.
I go to games because I love the game, think it deserves my support, and above all else can actually see more.

Just because something is a bit shit doesn't mean it has to be.
Just because the rugby is the main attraction, there's no harm in the ancillary stuff being good.
If you make it easy and affordable and a good experience, people will go and more importantly will come back, and they'll also bring friends who maybe aren't as into the footy. If people come away with a mild sense of regret at how much it cost and disappointment re quality vs price of what they got, or hold off on buying drinks and food... they don't come back and we get empty grounds.

Don't disagree mate, what I saying you can find a reason to stay home, or find a reason to go. Have to travel an hour or 2 to game? Can't change that, unless you move.
Beer not up to standard? It never will be everyone has different tastes, and not enough (hopefully) go to a game for the beer. Otherwise you get families not interested in taking their kids to hang out with a lot of pissheads?
I not sure how you are going to sell food or beer cheap at stadiums as they all temporary set ups, that cost an awful lot more to set up and run than in a permanent base. All sports have same problem unfortunately, they all have to pay for rent of stadium, and in a lot of cases have to use the suppliers etc for food etc. Also food vendors etc also have to pay to have use of facilities, meet food and health standards, and pay staff . Same with booze, it not easy get liquor licenses etc. Wish it was of course, and all rugby unions didn't have to pay players etc to make it cheaper. But as I say it same complaints on costs etc on almost any sport in my experience ,admittedly only in NZ and Australia that I know of.
In a perfect world, it would all be easier and cheaper, but someone has to pay costs.

Also add myself and Mrs are season ticket holders at of the Naki. Costs us $110 each for tickets the best ones we can get, also cover parking etc at games, I don't find that over the top in anyway.

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:

@Nepia

Agreed, I reckon a Giteau rule is the start of the end of NZ's domestic game being anything more than a development league for other comps. It's worth noting that would help Lam btw, but also his rationale was on this aspect was faulty all the way through, so I'd recommend listening to the interview in full.

Edit:

On live games, I'm not going given how much it costs - no only in terms of money, but also the 1 hour drive there and back again, plus traffic, and the shitty food, and shitty beer. I'm surprised people actually go.

Going to rugby has always been thus mate. In fact it used to be you couldn't buy a beer there anyway. But I genuinely think if people don't go to rugby because of shitty beer, they were never going for rugby anyway. Probably same for food, my only concern would be price for people in family groups, but the same in any sport or where there temporary food stalls. I (and mrs) usually have something to eat before a game, and same with having a beer etc.Geez and I drive always an hour for NPC games, never under 2 hrs for a super game and about 3.5 hours for tests.
It's ok to say I don't want to get off couch, got a brother in law who says exactly that, why go out when I can watch it from couch.
I go to games because I love the game, think it deserves my support, and above all else can actually see more.

@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2026:

@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:

@Tim said in All Blacks 2026:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/2025-nz-rugby-awards-ardie-saveas-player-of-the-year-prize-caps-a-dominant-year/5AMBW2XMKJFX7APJUPN7TAVXHI/

LOL

Have the fanbase ever been so disconnected from the team/pundits/officialdom?

There is a sizeable consensus on message boards that Ardie should be on the bench or not in the squad at all.

To be honest I think it's a vocal minority that think Savea is overrated. Most NZ fans love him and think he's one of the best players in the world.

Couldn't agree more Mr Fish.

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2026:

I think the tour next year either makes us or breaks us , I dont mind it ,

We either rise to play at the level required to compete with the benchmark or we dont , sink or swim

i think its more beneficial than playing weaker opposition with guaranteed wins and patting ourselves on the back , at least we find out where we are at,

Probably a bit off topic for this thread but south africans seem confident Tony Brown is very happy and about to extend his contract with Rassie .

I like you, love the idea of a good bloody hard year. If we crash , we crash. So we only get 4 home tests? Big deal, how many who want to go to a test will miss out. I bet I get ticket to any test I want to go to. Mind you I reckon we could of dropped a test against Aussies if we needed one against Pumas.

Just said to Mrs, we will book Wellington for July, I really don't do Eden Park as I gone right off Auckland as a place to go, and kind of feel similar about Chch (not quite as strongly though)

Just out of interest, who has read the judgement? It seems the Welsh manager's report says they didn't even get their Dr to check Mann's eye? It happened right on fulltime more or less and they they didn't even get the Dr to check his eye for damage?? Something not right there if he had been eye gouged surely? Just check his eye at least , just to make sure.

@DaGrubster said in Bokke vs Wales:

@Dan54 said in Bokke vs Wales:

@DaGrubster said in Bokke vs Wales:

@Dan54 said in Bokke vs Wales:

@DaGrubster said in Bokke vs Wales:

@Dan54 said in Bokke vs Wales:

@DaGrubster said in Bokke vs Wales:

@sparky said in Bokke vs Wales:

Apparently the All Blacks' self-styled spiritual leader provided a "character testimony" for Etzebeth.

So because they share an agent and pray together, one of them can commit assault against a third person with reduced consequences. Utter, utter bollocks.

Shameful.

Seriously? Why would that even come into consideration?

First BB helps out someone who smacks him in the head and now Savea doing this.

Stop fluffing the boks. Stop being the nice guys of a gladiatoral sport.

Stop acting like pussies and get angry that everyone now thinks we are pussies

Always been done Grubs. hell I have even given a character reference at a rugby judiciary hearing in Brisbane and at Levin only at club level of course. I recall Sam T (Nua ,you know him)doing exactly same for an Auckland player after Nua -Auckland shield match, well that wasn't a character one. more just bullshitted that what happened never really happened.
Like in normal court, I not sure it makes a difference, and I have supplied one there too, you not actually defending the actions, just how you find the person from your dealings with him.
It's not unusual, hell it has happened when Abs etc go up for too. Whether it actually makes a difference, I not sure.
I always used to laugh, Brad Thorn always publicly spoke up for Bakkies Botha, a lot of players did, reckoned that off field he was great joker etc, hell I even heard Phil Kearns among others say same about Richard Loe, who let's face it if we honest made Botha, Estebeth etc look angels!

Yeah, i know but why would Savea do it, why fucking bother?

Savea should be distancing himself from this henious act, not give a glowing reference.

Nice guys in rugby finish last. Or get whooped by record scores and know they will still be in the team the next week.

Im angry! No wonder we fall apart on the field when put under a bit of pressure

You ever stop to think Grubs, just maybe off the field they mates? What was in the glowing reference that has got you so upset? (I admit I haven't faintest idea what was written).If you genuinely believe we fall apart because they mates off field, you must of hated the likes of Jerry Collins, Tana Umaga, Brad Thorn, Buck Shelford etc who were real proud to be mates with opposition off field. I just don't get the Ardie hate, although I note it's trendy on here last few months.

Mate. I very rarely stop to think!

I just dont see why a senior All Black provides a character reference to a senior springbok.

In isolation it may seem an over the top reaction but it seems the AB culture is too nice these days and not ruthless enough (i know it isn't conclusive proof but its just a feeling and may come across as irrational).

We look to be very un-All Black like on the field and wilt under pressure badly at times. And we appear very un all black like off the field. I know times change and there is a much larger PI influence in the squad (and that brings a different element - not a criticism at all, just an observation) to but it just feels we have lost that connection to the AB legacy, culture and an absolute ruthless approach to becoming the best side again.

Last time Savea played the boks he was part of a record AB loss. Now he is rushing to their aid to help them.

Fuck them. Dont give them anything. Whats bad for them is good for us. It should burn inside that we lost to them like we did in Wellington and Savea should be setting that tone as a senior AB and probable captain next year.

I know i am old school but when we tour there next year, the boks will see this as a chance to humiliate the All Blacks. And they will be laser focussed on doing just that. We have lost that attitude.

Ramblings over.

There in perhaps lies the difference mate. When we play the Boks (or any team) I want them to have every player they can available. I want us to beat the best, not what's left over. I want no excuses when we win or lose.
I old fashioned like that, have never found it as enjoyable when we beat teams shorn of players through injury or suspension etc. Also old school enough to love the fact that after the game has finshed players are great mates. And I don't judge how hard we are as players off the field, only on it.
See stories like Umaga and George Gregan deciding they were going to play rugby together at a club while having a beer in a pub after a test there. And as I said Jerry Collins was real stoked to be mates with many he played against, always said he often caught up with opposition player in super at airports as they crossed paths, and they always had beer s etc.
Mind you I never agree with them mixing with opposition before a game under any circumstances (that is at any level), but after and off the field I really like they are mates.

And to top it off, as I said, I would of been happy if he got a year or so, but think 12 weeks is probably fair anyway. Shit act, but no injury, and it still twice as long as that prick Swain got for putting out Quinn Tupaea for best part of a year! Remember Hore smacking Bradley Davies from behind laying him out and putting him in hospital?
He got a few weeks, Welsh coach (Gatland) was in press saying he thought it was accidental.

You’re are missing the point. I dont think Etzebeth was in danger of being banned for AB matches and the ban was what i was expecting.

Its about a deeper maliase that is coming into the ABs.

Nice guys off the field. Now seemingly nice to play against on the field.

You talk about the late great jerry Collins.

After losing a test match, i beat he would be have been horrible to train against and with. Just cant see that with Ardie

Yep you get my point Grubs ,I want Estebeth playing against us next year , if he is still their best player. I don't want us to play anything but the best team they can field. And genuinely if you really think he was going to be stood down until August next year, (if Ardie hadn't given a character reference) I am surprised.
And on Jerry Collins, or Buck Shelford etc, I bet none of them would prefer to play a team without their best players because they were stood down etc.

@Jet said in Bokke vs Wales:

@OomPB said in Bokke vs Wales:

@Dan54 Jerry Collins and the other Bok eye doctor.

https://x.com/skysportnz/status/1694917925335892410?s=20

That makes me sad to watch.

There were proud men wearing the black jerseys in those days.

Not a backward step was taken.

Current crop are too accustomed to being well liked, valiant losers.

Read my thing above, it's a lot of crap, the players were exactly the same then as now.
Some seem to have this strange memory of ABs always have been these silent hard men etc. They have in my experience always been pretty good at getting on with opposition, hell and that's going well back, Colin Meads and Brian Lochore (in 60s) are 2 I have personally heard saying how they used to be pretty good mates with opposition, and actually would visit players with their families .

@OomPB said in Bokke vs Wales:

@Dan54 Jerry Collins and the other Bok eye doctor.

https://x.com/skysportnz/status/1694917925335892410?s=20

Yep remember seeing that interview. I always remember a super match in Palmerston North, they seemed to be enjoying smacking into each other. And the other thing I will always remember, I had taken my daughter and grandsons to match, after the game, we were around outside the gate at the back of stands, with a few Saffa supporters. Players were meant to be going upstairs for a aftermatch thing, and Burgher saw the kids etc outside gate, stuck his head back in changing sheds, and most of players from both teams came out to say hello to kids and supporters etc. And I was impressed after what I saw on field how genuinely good mates Burgher and Collins were or seemed to be. Stormers won the game too if I remember rightly.

I a bit pissed off, I can't find Heineken Cup on sky TV. Hell how is a man to survive with no rugby at all!!!!

@DaGrubster said in Bokke vs Wales:

@Dan54 said in Bokke vs Wales:

@DaGrubster said in Bokke vs Wales:

@Dan54 said in Bokke vs Wales:

@DaGrubster said in Bokke vs Wales:

@sparky said in Bokke vs Wales:

Apparently the All Blacks' self-styled spiritual leader provided a "character testimony" for Etzebeth.

So because they share an agent and pray together, one of them can commit assault against a third person with reduced consequences. Utter, utter bollocks.

Shameful.

Seriously? Why would that even come into consideration?

First BB helps out someone who smacks him in the head and now Savea doing this.

Stop fluffing the boks. Stop being the nice guys of a gladiatoral sport.

Stop acting like pussies and get angry that everyone now thinks we are pussies

Always been done Grubs. hell I have even given a character reference at a rugby judiciary hearing in Brisbane and at Levin only at club level of course. I recall Sam T (Nua ,you know him)doing exactly same for an Auckland player after Nua -Auckland shield match, well that wasn't a character one. more just bullshitted that what happened never really happened.
Like in normal court, I not sure it makes a difference, and I have supplied one there too, you not actually defending the actions, just how you find the person from your dealings with him.
It's not unusual, hell it has happened when Abs etc go up for too. Whether it actually makes a difference, I not sure.
I always used to laugh, Brad Thorn always publicly spoke up for Bakkies Botha, a lot of players did, reckoned that off field he was great joker etc, hell I even heard Phil Kearns among others say same about Richard Loe, who let's face it if we honest made Botha, Estebeth etc look angels!

Yeah, i know but why would Savea do it, why fucking bother?

Savea should be distancing himself from this henious act, not give a glowing reference.

Nice guys in rugby finish last. Or get whooped by record scores and know they will still be in the team the next week.

Im angry! No wonder we fall apart on the field when put under a bit of pressure

You ever stop to think Grubs, just maybe off the field they mates? What was in the glowing reference that has got you so upset? (I admit I haven't faintest idea what was written).If you genuinely believe we fall apart because they mates off field, you must of hated the likes of Jerry Collins, Tana Umaga, Brad Thorn, Buck Shelford etc who were real proud to be mates with opposition off field. I just don't get the Ardie hate, although I note it's trendy on here last few months.

Mate. I very rarely stop to think!

I just dont see why a senior All Black provides a character reference to a senior springbok.

In isolation it may seem an over the top reaction but it seems the AB culture is too nice these days and not ruthless enough (i know it isn't conclusive proof but its just a feeling and may come across as irrational).

We look to be very un-All Black like on the field and wilt under pressure badly at times. And we appear very un all black like off the field. I know times change and there is a much larger PI influence in the squad (and that brings a different element - not a criticism at all, just an observation) to but it just feels we have lost that connection to the AB legacy, culture and an absolute ruthless approach to becoming the best side again.

Last time Savea played the boks he was part of a record AB loss. Now he is rushing to their aid to help them.

Fuck them. Dont give them anything. Whats bad for them is good for us. It should burn inside that we lost to them like we did in Wellington and Savea should be setting that tone as a senior AB and probable captain next year.

I know i am old school but when we tour there next year, the boks will see this as a chance to humiliate the All Blacks. And they will be laser focussed on doing just that. We have lost that attitude.

Ramblings over.

There in perhaps lies the difference mate. When we play the Boks (or any team) I want them to have every player they can available. I want us to beat the best, not what's left over. I want no excuses when we win or lose.
I old fashioned like that, have never found it as enjoyable when we beat teams shorn of players through injury or suspension etc. Also old school enough to love the fact that after the game has finshed players are great mates. And I don't judge how hard we are as players off the field, only on it.
See stories like Umaga and George Gregan deciding they were going to play rugby together at a club while having a beer in a pub after a test there. And as I said Jerry Collins was real stoked to be mates with many he played against, always said he often caught up with opposition player in super at airports as they crossed paths, and they always had beer s etc.
Mind you I never agree with them mixing with opposition before a game under any circumstances (that is at any level), but after and off the field I really like they are mates.

And to top it off, as I said, I would of been happy if he got a year or so, but think 12 weeks is probably fair anyway. Shit act, but no injury, and it still twice as long as that prick Swain got for putting out Quinn Tupaea for best part of a year! Remember Hore smacking Bradley Davies from behind laying him out and putting him in hospital?
He got a few weeks, Welsh coach (Gatland) was in press saying he thought it was accidental.

Got one other thought, Estebeth must have pretty weak fingers for a big man. If he really was intentionally trying to gouge Manns' eye, and couldn't even cause an injury , he obviouly weaker in his hands than he looks. Richard Loe and friends must be shaking their heads in disgust!

@DaGrubster said in Bokke vs Wales:

@Dan54 said in Bokke vs Wales:

@DaGrubster said in Bokke vs Wales:

@sparky said in Bokke vs Wales:

Apparently the All Blacks' self-styled spiritual leader provided a "character testimony" for Etzebeth.

So because they share an agent and pray together, one of them can commit assault against a third person with reduced consequences. Utter, utter bollocks.

Shameful.

Seriously? Why would that even come into consideration?

First BB helps out someone who smacks him in the head and now Savea doing this.

Stop fluffing the boks. Stop being the nice guys of a gladiatoral sport.

Stop acting like pussies and get angry that everyone now thinks we are pussies

Always been done Grubs. hell I have even given a character reference at a rugby judiciary hearing in Brisbane and at Levin only at club level of course. I recall Sam T (Nua ,you know him)doing exactly same for an Auckland player after Nua -Auckland shield match, well that wasn't a character one. more just bullshitted that what happened never really happened.
Like in normal court, I not sure it makes a difference, and I have supplied one there too, you not actually defending the actions, just how you find the person from your dealings with him.
It's not unusual, hell it has happened when Abs etc go up for too. Whether it actually makes a difference, I not sure.
I always used to laugh, Brad Thorn always publicly spoke up for Bakkies Botha, a lot of players did, reckoned that off field he was great joker etc, hell I even heard Phil Kearns among others say same about Richard Loe, who let's face it if we honest made Botha, Estebeth etc look angels!

Yeah, i know but why would Savea do it, why fucking bother?

Savea should be distancing himself from this henious act, not give a glowing reference.

Nice guys in rugby finish last. Or get whooped by record scores and know they will still be in the team the next week.

Im angry! No wonder we fall apart on the field when put under a bit of pressure

You ever stop to think Grubs, just maybe off the field they mates? What was in the glowing reference that has got you so upset? (I admit I haven't faintest idea what was written).If you genuinely believe we fall apart because they mates off field, you must of hated the likes of Jerry Collins, Tana Umaga, Brad Thorn, Buck Shelford etc who were real proud to be mates with opposition off field. I just don't get the Ardie hate, although I note it's trendy on here last few months.

Look, I pretty pissed off with what Estebeth did, read my first post on it, and happy if he had got huge suspension.
But a few are getting into fluffybunny territory with Ardie (or it seems any ABs) shouldn't give character references , and BB shouldn't of said what everyone could see, that the Irish fella had no time to react etc.
What the f*** is it, if it not an AB we want everyone hung etc. The judiciary have given a bloody complete report of the whole process, who they listened to, and reasons for giving him the 12 weeks , and why he didn't get time off etc. They even suggest just maybe the ref while being correct in his RC etc, perhaps missed something by only having one view of the screen etc. The bottom line is he deserved everything he got in suspension, but to suggest he was having a few digs at his eyes etc (in 1 second?) is just rubbish.
Put away your nooses fellas, it all been sorted.

Actually just read the written decision, and see how they came to their conclusion. Also @nostrildamus that is where it says they worked out his finger was in or around eye for 1 second.
' Doing the best we can we
calculated that the Player’s thumb was in W7’s eye for something in the region of a second, in real time.'

Also pleased to read the suspension was actually longer than 12 weeks, they checked his playing schedule to make sure it 12 games.

I really staggered that you lot are getting shitty that Ardie put in character reference, for all you know he could of said that he thought it kind of thing he expected from Estebeth and was hoping he would get life!! Might of even been reason he was found guilty!

@Kiwiwomble said in Bokke vs Wales:

@DaGrubster said in Bokke vs Wales:

@sparky said in Bokke vs Wales:

Apparently the All Blacks' self-styled spiritual leader provided a "character testimony" for Etzebeth.

So because they share an agent and pray together, one of them can commit assault against a third person with reduced consequences. Utter, utter bollocks.

Shameful.

Seriously? Why would that even come into consideration?

First BB helps out someone who smacks him in the head and now Savea doing this.

Stop fluffing the boks. Stop being the nice guys of a gladiatoral sport.

Stop acting like pussies and get angry that everyone now thinks we are pussies

i dont have a problem with BB....because he was actually involved, first hand he can talk about the atmosphere and if he thinks its was deliberate.....no idea why savea is getting involved, he wasn't on the pitch

You obviously don't understand what a character reference is mate. It is no way to do with incident, only your dealings with the person in general.
I once got asked to give (and did) a reference to someone who had was going up and pleading guilty to a robbery. Basically saying in your dealings with the person, do you consider this normal behavior for the person (that's simplistic I know)
Have also been asked for character references (as well as normal ones) for people seeking jobs that needed them as part of clearance.

@DaGrubster said in Bokke vs Wales:

@sparky said in Bokke vs Wales:

Apparently the All Blacks' self-styled spiritual leader provided a "character testimony" for Etzebeth.

So because they share an agent and pray together, one of them can commit assault against a third person with reduced consequences. Utter, utter bollocks.

Shameful.

Seriously? Why would that even come into consideration?

First BB helps out someone who smacks him in the head and now Savea doing this.

Stop fluffing the boks. Stop being the nice guys of a gladiatoral sport.

Stop acting like pussies and get angry that everyone now thinks we are pussies

Always been done Grubs. hell I have even given a character reference at a rugby judiciary hearing in Brisbane and at Levin only at club level of course. I recall Sam T (Nua ,you know him)doing exactly same for an Auckland player after Nua -Auckland shield match, well that wasn't a character one. more just bullshitted that what happened never really happened.
Like in normal court, I not sure it makes a difference, and I have supplied one there too, you not actually defending the actions, just how you find the person from your dealings with him.
It's not unusual, hell it has happened when Abs etc go up for too. Whether it actually makes a difference, I not sure.
I always used to laugh, Brad Thorn always publicly spoke up for Bakkies Botha, a lot of players did, reckoned that off field he was great joker etc, hell I even heard Phil Kearns among others say same about Richard Loe, who let's face it if we honest made Botha, Estebeth etc look angels!