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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Crusaders v Reds:
Yeah, Havilli played pretty well. The length of his punts are impressive. However, he has history with charge downs and the Reds probably targeted him. He needs to adjust to the lack of space and time in those situations. There were two or three times he couldn't get the team out from their line then the charge down happened.
If its not charge downs it's intercept passes.
@Kirwan said in Crusaders v Reds:
Maths nerds, how many more losses before the crusaders are done and dusted?
5 games ago.
Oh FFS, the Crusaders season is toast and has been since their first losing streak. I think even Bryn Hall will have to accept it now.
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Looking at the Frizzel "incident" again, Steven Kitsoff smashes him in the side of the head with his arm. Of course, the TMO completely missed this and YCed Frizzel for falling over. What a farken joke.
I felt that it could have easily been ruled a rugby contact incident. No penalties, play on
It should have been. I've not seen an penalty and a YC for something so innocuous before. Ever. I wonder if Ardie went down and squealed like a little bitch and cries foul at every ruck African Jesus may have been shown red and 6 weeks.
I don't know what Foley's qualifications are, but I don't believe he's a test ref. Crazy to be in that position of power
I'd be interested to know how an amateur who doesn't even follow the game, if given a perimeters to work with, how they would apply the laws. Whether SC would have been upgraded, or African Jesus would have been upgraded, or whether SF would have even seen a penalty, or maybe Kitsoff would be sent off.
I hate to say it but we reap what we sow. In the NH, for the last 18 months, both would have been red, I think up until the Curry decision in the WC both would have been red. The wailing and gnashing of teeth about some of the early reds was the reason mitigation became more generous during the tournament. On that basis, the yellow / upgrade to red decisions were consistent with what we’d seen in the previous weeks.
It is not the refs fault. IMO it’s barely even WR’s fault. It’s a reflection of rugby laws being subjective, and the fact we want and need them to be so.
Which is what we're talking about African Jesus should have seen red. Or both yellow.
@Snowy said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Worth noting that it was not Foley that upgraded Sam's yellow to a red. Yes, he is an annoying pedantic piston wristed gibbon that helped ruin a game of rugby, but he isn't to blame for the inconsistency between the two captains' cards. We don't actually know who did that.
It's not so much the SC red people are complaining about, fuck, I wouldn't have even asked for a penalty, but the missed forearms, clear penalty that should have been reversed, a head smash with "mitigation" etc. It was the persistent intervention by the TMO looking for shit and missing heaps.
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Looking at the Frizzel "incident" again, Steven Kitsoff smashes him in the side of the head with his arm. Of course, the TMO completely missed this and YCed Frizzel for falling over. What a farken joke.
I felt that it could have easily been ruled a rugby contact incident. No penalties, play on
It should have been. I've not seen an penalty and a YC for something so innocuous before. Ever. I wonder if Ardie went down and squealed like a little bitch and cries foul at every ruck African Jesus may have been shown red and 6 weeks.
I don't know what Foley's qualifications are, but I don't believe he's a test ref. Crazy to be in that position of power
I'd be interested to know how an amateur who doesn't even follow the game, if given a perimeters to work with, how they would apply the laws. Whether SC would have been upgraded, or African Jesus would have been upgraded, or whether SF would have even seen a penalty, or maybe Kitsoff would be sent off.
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Looking at the Frizzel "incident" again, Steven Kitsoff smashes him in the side of the head with his arm. Of course, the TMO completely missed this and YCed Frizzel for falling over. What a farken joke.
I felt that it could have easily been ruled a rugby contact incident. No penalties, play on
It should have been. I've not seen an penalty and a YC for something so innocuous before. Ever. I wonder if Ardie went down and squealed like a little bitch and cries foul at every ruck African Jesus may have been shown red and 6 weeks.
My RWC jersey just came in. A big FUCK YOU to Canada once again for taxing us up the arse when it comes to importing goods you can't buy here. Fucking joke. Anyways, normally I wouldn't buy a RWC jersey so soon after a loss, and as gutted as I am, I mean, this one really hurts, I am more accepting of it in the way the TMO had an influence and also, I gave us no shot of getting passed the QF. I bought the performance jersey. Still not a fan of the collar but fuck, it's a nice jersey. The ferns are very subtle and the material feels really nice on. Stitching looks strong but a bit abrasive but finally getting a god look at it, very very nice. Thank god I ordered a size up. There's no way I would fit my standard labeled size.
Looking at the Frizzel "incident" again, Steven Kitsoff smashes him in the side of the head with his arm. Of course, the TMO completely missed this and YCed Frizzel for falling over. What a farken joke.
@No-Quarter said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Still catching up with the thread, but my take is that arbitrary TMO calls didn't decide the match, they made it impossible to tell what would have happened if it was 15v15 the whole match. The RWC final deserved that but instead all I have is an inkling the ABs would have won, but who knows? Terrible outcome and brings the game into disrepute.
I don't think anyone is saying Barnes or the TMO decided the outcome but the TMO certainly had an influence. SF gets 20 for falling over yet you can scream in to a ruck and blow some oke off the ball. SC getting red yet SK smokes Ardie and gets a yellow, EDG and SC get clobbered in the face with arms, FDK knocking on, Ardie clearly winning à turnover, was acknowledged and apologised to yet penalty wasn't reversed and a potential try goes back 5 phases and ruled out. We had plenty of chances to win the game. One kick to go over or a favourable bounce off the ball and it's game.
@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@akan004 fair call.
Although, for whatever reason, it seems for the most part we dont really wanna engage in calling the ref's attention to shit and just want to play, yet seems we have several Super captains always happy to point it out.
Playing/managing the ref is a big part of the game now, like it or not, so we need to join the revolution and start pressing the issue on some of the 50/50 shit, cos if it was the other way, other captains sure as shit will and do at every opportunity.
That said, I am still dead set against cards except for actual foul/dirty play, not these accidental contacts labelled foul play, IMO there is a better way.
100%.
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Catogrande said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@kiwiinmelb said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
My view on the whole thing is a bit more simplistic,
I think the margins between the top 4 sides are tiny, you could replay the quarter final the next week and get a different result and replay the final and get a different result next time around .
But as always, winning papers over the cracks and losing over emphasis them.
Yes, but the bloody Saffers did it when it mattered. 3 times on the bounce. A tad fortunate maybe v France but they played poorly v England and v NZ in much of the second half and still got over the line.
There are no undeserving RWC winners.
We tend to attach certain phrases to sporting contests in an emotive way to try and make sense of it all. But I’ve never really got the whole deserved or undeserved winners stuff. Your team either wins or doesn’t. It’s that clear cut. And that is why it’s so devastating when you think your team plays well and they don’t get the choccies.
A score line sometimes isn’t a true reflection of what happens on the field. But sometimes it very much is. The weekend in my opinion was clearly in the latter category. It was a genuinely close match.
Reminded me of 2011, only this time we missed the potential go ahead kicks late in the game
remember in 2011 we missed a couple of early shots at goal. Weepu was the culprit.
IIRC he hurt his leg in the warmup
Groin no?
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@kiwiinmelb said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Catogrande said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I’m not sure that many are denying that the Boks got the important bits of luck but sometimes luck is what you make for yourselves.
I’m no great (neutral) fan of the way they play. I despise Rassie’s gamesmanship, but I very much admire the fortitude and achievement that they’ve shown.
Not the prettiest RWC winners, but very worthy. All the whinging about decisions and it only being by one point really denigrates the achievement.
Yeah you have to be some fucken team to get up by a single point three weeks in a row.
Anyone complaining about them not being worthy winners is just a dick really.
But this has given the All Blacks something to chase, as of 2015 they were clearly in front in terms of “amount of WCs won”
Not anymore.
We have been chasing for a while now and we almost got there ,
The biggest concern for me apart from not winning, is we were known as the innovators . Not any more .
Hopefully that breakdancing bloke lives up to his reputation and brings a bit of that with him .
I think we still are. I don't think any other team can attack and unlock defences like we do. Only problem is that we weren't doing the hard, grunt stuff to put ourselves in a position to do that. It was always getting the shit knocked out of us then playing catchup. Hopefully Razor finds the right balance.
We were definitely finding our way through their defence in the second half. With 14 men, we kept them tryless.
@akan004 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@kiwiinmelb said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
The biggest concern for me apart from not winning, is we were known as the innovators . Not any more .
More of a concern for me is that we aren't savvy enough to influence the officials the way other teams do. We are an incredibly naive team.
Kriel gets hit by Cane, and he is smart enough to stay down while Kolisi brings it to the referee's attention. Same thing in Twickenham when Barrett takes out Marx, and the Springboks immediately notify the referee about it.
On the other hand when Eben leads with his elbow, Cane just bounces back up and continues playing instead of alerting the ref. Ardie also chooses to be silent after being hit high by Kolisi, luckily it was picked up by the TMO.
Another example was Aaron Smith's non try, Ardie should have reminded Barnes that the TMO can't go back more than two phases. Barnes probably would have ignored him but you at least have to plant that idea in his head that your team have been hard done by, and that might just be enough to influence him to award the next marginal call in your favour .
1,000,000%. You could hear through Barnes' coms the voice of Kolisi and a few others yelping at every ruck about some BS. Barnes may have even told one of them to shut up. I've been saying this for awhile. Leadership need to get in the ref's ear respectfully and point out some shit and let the ref know he fucked up or the opposition are whining fleabags.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
If your game plan is relying on match officials to get everything correct you’re in trouble.
IMO the biggest errors were kicking to the corner when we should have kicked for sticks…then kicking for the sticks from far out when we should have kicked to the corner. And waiting too long to bring on DMac.
They were pretty big eff ups for sure. Bringing on DMac so late was pretty inexplicable. Makes the loss hurt even more..
But fark me Kolisi being allowed to come back on while Cane gets red was seriously on the nose. I don't think we've heard the last of that.
You could hear SK calling for head highs at almost every tackle.
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I know this has been brought up before but one thing is those players (one SA prop) in particular who get down so ridiculously low its virtually impossible to tackle them without making contact to the head. The tackler has to literally slide along the ground. Its effectively inviting a shoulder or arm to the head. How tf is that making the game safer?
Need to learn judo and hip toss them
And if you land on them accidentally, you go for ten.
@Billy-Tell said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@booboo its seems to basic...too basic to stuff up so just went back to look....the lineout is the fifth phase before the try....its just painful
Maybe so. But it WAS a knock on.
Yes, it was, and if they can go back to correct it, why can't they go back and correct Ardie stealing the ball?
@kev said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Winger yep the decision not to red card Kolisi was totally inconsistent. Ardie didn’t dip and yet Kolisi got him flush on the face, with Ardie reeling back from the contact. The fact that Kolisi bent over slightly actually meant he led with his head into the contact. Incredibly dangerous.
We all know that rugby has become boring card lottery and that the mugs that run the game from Europe are incompetent. This is at every level not just WC finals.
I'm surprised Ardie wasn't carded for falling over.
@voodoo said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nzzp who do you reckon made the call to stop contesting lineouts? Is that Ardie, the locks or the coaches? (genuine qn)
I wonder if it was because they were down to 14 they felt they needed all to defend. Contesting LO means they've taken 3 out of the defensive live they're already one short on.