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The Silver Fern

JR_J

JR_

@JR_
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Recent Best Controversial

    RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks
  • JR_J JR_

    I mostly lurk. Sometimes post. Wanted to get this down before Saturday's collision:

    As an SA supporter, there is no other team I'd rather play and beat in a World Cup Final than the All Blacks. Short of that, there is not other team I'd rather lose to. I've followed ABs ups and downs under Foster, but always always thought that the reports of their death as a force to be reckoned with was way overdone. I am not at all surprised to see them in the final. Just as I am not surprised to see the Boks there.

    There seems to be a genuine dislike in some quarters of the SA rugby game, coaches, players. All I can say to that is that when you look at the actual players on the field this weekend, there seems to be only respect and in some cases genuine camaraderie and friendships. So I let the guys at the sharp end guide me on that front. These are two fantastic teams with very different styles that should give us a great game.

    Boks are gearing up for an attritional game in wet weather and relying on a second pack to come in and do the business. Simple fact is that the replacement tight five is of starting quality. ABs can't match that. However, they can negate the impact of the Bok plan due to exceptional game runners at 9 &10 and a rugby intelligence across the backline that is able to bring the rapier compared to the Bok sledgehammer.

    I think there is nothing in it. Good luck boys.


  • 2021 British & Irish Lions tour to SA
  • JR_J JR_

    @barbarian

    I agree with most of this. As a South African fan, I think the whinge absolutely needs to be dialed back and dialed back a lot. Frankly, South Africans (and Afrikaners in particular) have a bit of an inferiority complex/persecution complex at the best of times. This is a cultural trait. The word "laager" in "laager mentality" is of course ultimately an Afrikaans/Boer word for circling of the wagons. The image of a stout tough boer, battling for survival against a hostile and dangerous world is deeply seated within SA/Afrikaans collective conscious. Added to this, and partly for this reason, the Boks don't wear the No 1 crown comfortably. They never have. It is one of the reasons I think you see typically a sharp drop off in their performance after World Cup wins (as an example). It is almost as if when at the top, they now need to create a reason to say that it is still us against the world, even though we are No 1. They like to believe they are always under threat. That is the mindset where they are most comfortable and it plays to their physical game also. I think a lot of this happens almost unconsciously and the pity is that Rassie seems to have missed an opportunity here to help them get away from this way of thinking, grow the self belief from genuine performance and start to act like No 1. Basically AB style.

    I think things will calm down, I think they will get better at this, and hopefully Rassie learns something from it. But I'm going easy on the boys.....they are learning.....and this is a lesson that can take some time.....


  • All Blacks vs Springboks II
  • JR_J JR_

    @booboo said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

    Not sure what the Boks can do better. Except not kick for 50/50 options quite so often. Hold the ball for some 60/40s maybe.

    Boks will want to cut down on the penalties (and yellow card) and yes, improve balance on kick v run. But only in the last 20 or so. Up to then, more of the same….


  • All Blacks vs Springboks II
  • JR_J JR_

    @mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

    if they play more open suddenly this week we will absolutely murder them

    Exactly this. There is no way the Boks are going to do anything different in approach. They will be focusing on improving decision making and execution when cracks appear, tackling execution and discipline. In their view, their approach held the ABs to 1 try, 23 turnovers and ultimately a 78 minute penalty to win the game. Boks conceded 16 penalties to 10 and threw 65 passes compared to 141 from ABs. Despite this, territory largely equal. They will be saying - “where did the ABs passing get them, except producing turnovers. Let’s keep the pressure on.” The Boks like to play without the ball. They don’t give a shit about entertainment - only what works. If they can cut the penalty count, on that alone, they will believe they will be there or there about come the final 15mins.

    Personally I don’t think they have the gas in the tank for this, but let’s see….


  • All Blacks vs Springboks I
  • JR_J JR_

    @frank said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

    How would you prove it anyway? That's impossible.
    Of course we know faking injuries feeds into the Bok game plan of slowing the game down. In fact, faking an injury give them a LONGER breather than simply walking to a lineout.
    What would be interesting is for someone to count how many times the Boks go down in games but the "injured" player then continues playing vs how many times this happens for other teams. Perhaps this was just a one-off, but I doubt it.

    Exactly, it is impossible to prove. But the fact that it "feeds into our plan" doesn't make it so either. I just think this general line is being overcooked a bit. It started with the Lions tour (where the Bok boring rugby narrative also took hold) and now seems to be something for everyone to bitch about every week. Agree one would need some stats on it to get a real view....I also think the Boks are too negative on tempo and they need to up it. The slow walk everywhere and trudging to the line outs is just too defensive. Get some fucking spring in your step man!


  • All Blacks vs Springboks I
  • JR_J JR_

    Haven't been on here in years, but somehow found my way back....thought I'd lurk, but either this or work on a Monday morning....:

    Congrats to ABs. They continue to show that somehow, some way, they consistently have the minerals to edge these close encounters. It shows a deep mental resolve and an ability to do the right thing at the right time when it really counts, under huge pressure. It is this ability (basics under pressure at the crunch) that make them consistently such a good team. It is the defining feature often of any winning team/player in any sport. ABs have this in spades.

    This can be sharply contrasted with SA in the final 10 or so minutes, who succumbed to extremely poor decision making coupled with even worse execution. It is one thing to take the wrong option (that happens), but it is another to then fuck it up even further and turn the mistake of a wrong option into a disaster of poor execution as well. We needed a cool head to take control at the end there recognize the game is opening up, recognize there is space everywhere and recognize that it is time to back yourself and try and strike. Sadly, the SA game runners have become so defensive that they are struggling to see the ball when it is there to be hit....

    We needed Elton Jantjies on the field in the final 20. He is a controversial player in SA, but there is no Bok 10 that is better at taking the ball flat and to the line and actually creating some time and space for the players on the outside. Apparently v Staden was struggling with a shoulder, EJ was last man on the bench and they didn't want to risk finishing with 14 men.....fine.

    Having said all that, I find some of the Clive Woodward level vitriol on here wrt. Bok game plan a bit much. The kick chase worked. The mauling worked. The rush worked. By 'worked' I mean the ABs were clearly feeling the pressure and the Boks got into a position to win the game. What they failed to do, once the poison started taking effect, is switch to a more attacking mode. They were getting in behind and the space was starting to present itself. Personally, I have no problem with the Bok game up to that point. That is how we play. But we over did it here. They aren't recognizing when they are in the strike zone and things are potentially on. The team is under pressure, coming off two frankly horrific losses to Aus, and they've gone into their shells. Nienaber's mettle as coach is going to be tested here and whether he can get them to play with the freedom and confidence needed to take advantage of the opportunities that they do create with pressure. They are scared of losing now and it shows. I enjoy the contrast in styles (I'd rather we were able to play like ABs, but we can't, it has been the graveyard of many Bok coaches) and there have been some very watchable games between these two teams in recent years. Claiming everything is shit and the Boks are ruining the game (as some do) is really saying "we don't look pretty and fun when you guys play like that and we don't like it much". If I was an AB I'd rather celebrate the fact that you guys can manage to do both (scrap and dance) depending on the occasion. This was an old school street fight and it wasn't pretty. But that isn't because of the styles imho. It was because of the mistakes made on both sides. Neither team played particularly well and I think the pressure and occasion got to both teams. Boks desperate to win and ABs tantalizingly close to another RC and 100th test. The pressure showed.

    Finally, re slowing the game down: clearly that was the Bok intent. They were walking to lineouts and other set pieces etc. Controlling the tempo of the game is part of sport. ABs want it quick, we want it slow. That is part of the tactical battle. Everyone knows this is part of the Bok game. However, because everyone knows this, in my humble opinion, there is text book confirmation bias all over this thread now. The Boks want a slow game, therefore every injury is a fake. There is an alternative explanation that is no less plausible: in rugby you sometimes have injury stoppages. Shit happens. Need to watch the game again and look at stoppages that aren't for blood, but my sense here is this line fits a narrative now. The fact is there is no proof that any of these injuries are faked. None. What I would say is that the ref was poor at controlling the pace of the game outside of injuries. The lineout walk is an example. Pearce easily could have injected some tempo with a well placed free kick against Boks early on.

    I expect next week to be a more free flowing game. I also expect the ABs to take it more comfortably as a result. For Boks I think the team is going to be largely unchanged (Kolbe back in though), but expect to see EJ on the field much earlier. There is an outside chance I think that he starts with Reinach at 9 and Faf is asked to go sit in the naughty corner and gets dropped out of the match day. I think it unlikely, but not impossible....

    Anyway, bring it on. And well done again to ABs.

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