The Silver Fern

Just logged on to say fair play and cheers for a cracking series lads.

Proper, hard as nails rugby from two teams who wanted to play ball. Was delighted to get that monkey off our backs a fortnight ago and proud of the effort today, especially from our pack even if we lacked that little bit of attacking guile that sees your lads through when your backs are against the wall.

As losing Crotty last week affected your attack, there's no shame in losing our attacking shape after losing Sexton and Henshaw so early. That and your fellas superb defence was the difference in the game for me.

That and Brodie Retallick. What a beast of a player and the best player in the world by a distance in my book. I thought we had the edge in a lot of areas of the pack but that fecker evened the scales all on his own!

Agreed with Hansen's comments on there being no malice in any of the tough play tonight. The ref was a bit all over the place but I didn't think either side came off worse and we've only ourselves to blame for not exploiting the rubs of the green we did get. The decisions not to scrum penalties close to the line when we had a man advantage were shockers.

Anyway, enough rambling. Just wanted to say congrats and cheers for a fantastic 2 rugby!

@Billy-Tell said in Ireland II:

I would hate to have fought alongside an Irishman in one of the world wars, "harden up" is just not an Irish characteristic.

I'll probably be labeled another Irish whinger for this but that's a fairly unnecessary comment to throw about when discussing a rugby match and a few clowns on the internet.

Tens of thousands of Irishmen and women gave their lives to those wars and just as those from England, France, New Zealand or anywhere else, they deserve better than having their "hardness" questioned by some fella sitting on a sofa behind a laptop.

It's just a game man. Ye won this one fair and square so just try to enjoy that for a while if you can.

I won't try and excuse some of the shite that's come out of Ireland since Saturday but I will mention that we have the worst media in sport when it comes to commentary and newspaper columns. A large portion of our support never saw a rugby ball before 2006 and since then, have had their entire rugby education dictated by hacks like Trevor Francis and Gavin Cummisky. Every game they've ever seen has been commentated on by a Sky Sports team paid to sensationalise mediocrity.

That coupled with too much time at a keyboard spent debating an opponent fan base who are fond of rowing in behind each other and digging their heels in (the Cane - Henshaw tackle for example, it wasn't a head clash but nor was it anything other than an accident) leads to very important internet arguments which eijits feel have to be won.

The large majority of rugby fans who play for, coach and watch their clubs, provinces and country on a regular basis are saying the same things about the game. We fronted up well against the best side in the world but failed to take advantage of the work our pack did and were punished for not being savvy enough in attack.

One point I read here which I'd disagree with is the idea that we ignored kiwi injuries two weeks ago when using ours as an excuse now. I write on munsterfans and we were all very aware of the impact losing Whitelock, Retallick and Crotty had in Chicago. Reading reports after the game, it did feel at times like NZ were the only side missing players when Ireland had O'Brien, O'Mahony, Henderson and Earls out as well.

Losing Henshaw, Sexton and Stander within 5 minutes so early on is just as fair a factor to bring up for us this week. Don't think anyone is suggesting we'd have won the game without those injuries, but those are big game players for Ireland and it's hard to slam a makeshift midfield for failing to spark without them.

Hello all! Just logging in to say best of luck for tomorrow and may the better side win.

I've just seen that Dan Leavy has been ruled out with Van der Flier coming into the starting side and Jordi Murphy on to the bench.

Leavy has been superb and I'd have had him in ahead of O'Brien regardless of last weeks injury. It's a huge loss and while I was quietly confident even without O'Brien, Murray and Henshaw - I reckon Leavy is one loss too far. NZ by 8.

@scribe Oh likewise I want James Ryan to show big bad Brodie what the new breed of lock looks like while Furlong manhandles your loose forwards around like ragdolls again and Ringrose twists your midfield into knots.

I was feeling good yesterday but now, missing four fellas who would start for the Lions if they were playing tomorrow I'm less bullish on our chances.

We'll be competitive though. If you beat us by more than 10 points I'd be very pissed off.

@billy-tell In fairness, we've just won a series in Australia without Best, Henderson, O'Brien, Van der Flier, Ruddock and Farrell, with Leavy, Ringrose, Conway, Carberry and today O'Mahony missing serious chunks of the series.

That shows serious depth and while our attacking play has been stunted, I reckon getting a few of those names (Ringrose and Leavy in particular) back into the team at 100% will add a lot. Having no 13 for two thirds of this tour hurt us a lot.

Part of keeping things tight was a counter to Australias ground game. Line breaks and outside breaks are great to watch but against this Oz side, a split seconds isolation will lead to a turnover 9 times out of 10 so keeping things tight ensured we controlled possession.

I don't think our last 3 games against the ABs have lacked attacking endeavour and recent games against South Africa and Argentina didn't either. We're certainly not the best attacking side in world rugby but I don't think we're as one dimensional as you're suggesting.

Also, Carberry has led us to crucial victories over the ABs and England in the last few years. Sexton is important but not as crucial as Murray when you look at the back up.

@Crucial said in Ireland II:

Fair call, my comment on that was directed to the numpties commenting under news articles.

I do fell that so much of this outcry is due to the influence of the live TV commentary though. I think it was the RTE one I had and it wouldn't have been a stretch for them to start accusing the ABs of carrying knives in their socks. The commentary was a disgrace and if anything regarding that game was pre-meditated it was those pillocks getting behind the mic and preaching about dirty play. Play up to your audience to some degree yes, but if the crowd at the game had been listening to them instead of folk at home you could easily accuse them of inciting a riot.

Yeah RTE are no better. The lads in the studio were far more balanced but the commentary team are never good. The squeaky voiced fecker Rule Nugent forces me to turn the sound off 3 minutes into every game and the woman interviewing Hansen afterwards was a disgrace.

Like I said, sports media is something we are uniquely bad at in this country.

@billy-tell Indeed they do. But while winning away in the southern hemisphere despite a handful of injuries is standard fare for NZ, it is a massive sign of progression for ourselves.

I think this tour has shown us that neither Aki nor Henshaw are an option at 13. Ringrose is exceptional and we saw last autumn that Chris Farrell is a quality deputy but if those two are going to continue to pick up injuries, we're going to have to give serious game time to Arnold or another outside centre before the world cup.

I can't wait for the autumn already. I'm excited by the line up of the fixtures which will allow us to try a few new options first against Italy in Chicago, then play a more established side with a couple of wild cards against Argentina in Dublin before hopefully sending out a full XV in the third week against your boys!

@ACT-Crusader cheers bud. Yeah there's a lot to be positive about for us lately. A few years ago we were terrified about losing the likes of O'Driscoll, O'Connell and Wallace. Now, although we mightn't have individuals of their quality, we suddenly have a far higher average bar and real depth across the squad.

There's still a long way to go. Our set piece, defence and pack are a match for anyone but today just proved again how far behind your lads we are in attack, especially when we lose our first choice midfielders.

Jared Payne is the leader of our defence and a rock in the midfield, but I'm not convinced we'll ever be an attacking force with him at 13.

The trick for us is bringing this intensity into every game of a 6nations. We usually have no issue raising our game for yourselves or England but then fail to show up against Wales or something frustrating like that.

Shame Schmidt isn't leading the Lions down your way next summer. Can't help but feel we're missing a trick with the 3rd best coach in the home nations at the helm.

@Crucial said in Ire v Aus:

PS I hope one day that the tackle are gets cleaned up a bit by eliminating crocodile rolls. The whole concept is meant to be attackers and defenders contesting the ball by owning the space over it through forward momentum, not wrestling moves flinging players out the side.

If you remove the crocodile roll as well as policing the head below hips upon entry rule you mentioned, we're going to end up with every side having a Pocock in it and turnovers at every single breakdown. Entire matches would be played back and forth within 10 metres of the half way line!

@derm-mccrum O'Mahony will need to have an even bigger game! With Leavy out and no Beirne in the squad, it will fall to O'Mahony to do 100% of the jackling and slowing down of their ball.

VdFlier will tackle all day for you but he's no Leavy at the breakdown.

From my experience, Richie was only really disliked by the English and the Welsh up here.

The English probably because he beat them when they thought they were good, which they always struggle with and the Welsh because they don't really like anyone. I've never seen a player or team win more than 10 matches in a season, and not be deemed cheating scum by the Welsh.

In Ireland he was revered far more than Pocock will ever be. In Munster he's considered a spiritual godfather! I've lived in Scotland and France as well, and he's well respected in both countries. Just because the English (and often our own) media bleat louder than most, doesn't for a second mean their views are indicative of the masses.

@Billy-Tell said in Ireland II:

Yeah that's totally fair, especially given I was born in the 70s! Pent up frustration got the better of me. I don't think NZ could have been more magnanimous after Chicago but the "favour" has not been remotely returned. I've seen hysterical levels of Irish angst about Sam Cane, that the citing process has shown to be a crock of pooh.

Look, I have a number of Irish mates, who have all been much more reasonable, and I apologise for the World War reference which wasn't really on.

I just think it's a crying shame the aftermath of what I thought was a magnificent test match, and I think a few of us are quite jealous of that performance by the Irish backrow, which was magnificent, and should have been match-winning.

I'll settle down no doubt, and I do look forward to the Ire-Aussie game. I would love to see Carbery start and Joe do something different with his back 3, although the loss of Henshaw probably means changes will be minimised.

I don't think I've seen a more exciting emerging NH backrow talent than VDF, he is a keeper.

Fair play and no worries!

I agree with you on the hysteria that's taken over so many of our journalists and internet warriors. It's been embarrassing and has detracted from the excellent effort of our squad and coaches over the 2 games.

I wasn't at this game but I was there for the match in 2013 and I think we were magnanimous in defeat then - most of us left frustrated about kicking poorly to your back 3 at such a crucial time and I don't remember anyone having complaints about the ref.

The Oz game and our selection will be interesting. I often get frustrated at some of Joe's selections, particularly when it comes to our backline, but it's hard to argue with the improvements he's made. Hopefully the more we progress, the less conservative he will become in regard to our attack. I guess the onus is also on our more gifted attackers to work on those less glamorous aspects of their game which Joe values most.

Van der Flier is a cracking player and Leavy behind him looks a great prospect too. With O'Donoghue coming through at 8 we really are blessed in the back row. Peter O'Mahony not making the squad last weekend was a crazy show of strength for us.

I don't think we're too far behind anywhere in the pack or at halfback to be honest. Well as long as Murray stays fit! Where we fall behind is producing backs who can both attack and defend as well as your lads do.