The Silver Fern

@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2025:

@ShaquilleOatmeal Wasn't he sent off against Ireland in Dunedin?

Just checked. A red card to Angus Ta’avao, yellows to Leicester Fainga’anuku (for colliding with a player in the air) and Ofa Tuungafasi.

@zedsdeadbaby said in All Blacks 2025:

I was actually going to float the Carter as a wing/halfback option last night - this tour seems like the perfect place to do it.

Frankly I’m not convinced by Roe or any of the other options so why not take a little bit of a risk.

The difference between a 6/2 split with Carter or a specialist halfback on the bench, given the current starting group, is really only whether or not Jordan stays at fullback or has to move to the wing if one of the starting wings is injured. If Carter starts on the wing and covers halfback from there, however, is where this could be handy, with a first-five/fullback and a midfield back on the bench.

@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2025:

I don't mind players that have put in the time to the ABs getting a break. It's helps those players last longer and recover from all the contact.

But players like that Mounga and LF that leave early? They can fuck right off.

Faingaʻanuku has played a total of seven tests (two of which were against Namibia and Uruguay) and wasn't deemed good enough for the 23 in the World Cup semi-final or final before he left. Talk of him walking straight back into the squad doesn't sit right.

Christie might be viewed as the safe option, given his experience but it’d be a wasted selection. He won’t be at the World Cup, he’ll come off the bench and add nothing and there’s an opportunity here to see what other players have to offer if they get an opportunity.

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:

@Canes4life But of the three Peter Lakai is the one who is yet to be trusted in a Test starting XV for the All Blacks.

He's a talent, he's versatile and time is on his side, but I don't quite see him as good enough yet at either 7 or 8 for the ABs. I think Peter Lakai will develop into a world-class player for the All Blacks, but he's not there yet.

The fact he hasn't started a test isn't his fault. If he were to start in a test, I'd imagine he wouldn't let the jersey down. He pretty much played a full game against a stronger French side last year away and didn't look out of place.

If you think Lio-Willie and Kirifi are good enough to play test rugby, then Lakai is even more suited in my opinion. If Lakai was fit, Kirfi or Lio-Willie probably wouldn't have got that opportunity so 'trust' isn't an issue for Lakai. He played pretty much a full season at 7 for the Canes in 2024 and almost a full season at 8 for the Canes this year and definitely looked the goods. The fact he can play both positions to a high standard puts him in a good place in terms of selection.

Razor and co will want to get him back in the environment considering he'll likely be a big piece of the puzzle come RWC 2027. Out all the other loosies, Lakai probably would be the most suited to provide 'impact' off the bench' due to his explosiveness.

Get him in the squad, give him game time, let him (hopefully) realise his potential. Stick with Lio-Willie and Kirifi and they'll get to the World Cup wishing they had better players. The All Blacks have a few place holders at the moment. I'd much rather they pick guys with promise and see if they can get them to the required level. Robertson talked about being more bold in his selections. Time to really go for it.

@jimmyb said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

I thought DMac played a solid game on the weekend. His kicking game was much stronger than BBs, he just didn't have much x factor. I don't mind that, and I'd like to see him get a run with Roigard and the top team

But we’re stuck between rock and a hard place with Barrett and McKenzie. Either Love or someone else has to step up

I’d like to see them give Love (given he’s the options they have in squad right now) significant game time throughout the Rugby Championship, introducing him from the bench with more and more minutes each game as the tournament goes on and eventually starting, until it’s clear whether or not he’s the best option going forward. No point in mucking around with Barrett for another two years.

Robertson might say a bit of stuff about what the team has learned from the series but the real question is whether or not they apply that knowledge in the future. I look forward to the improved tactical kicking, better use of the bench and game plan adaptability.

@Dan54 said in All Blacks v France III:

@Bovidae said in All Blacks v France III:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France III:

I thought Finau's clean was his stand out attribute.

He did the same in the earlier tests but haters don't want to see it. It was especially evident in the last 5 mins of the Dunedin test.

Yep,I thought Finau went ok. I admit a a fan of Vaa'i staying at 6 going forward, but it's not that Finau no good. I like we getting options in these positions.

Oh and is good being back after the Fern disappeared from my computers etc.

I'm happy to continue with Vaa'i and Finau at blindside and there are other options who may step up. The other two loose forward positions still have question marks over them, in terms of the size of the players the coaches are currently selecting and the way those players play. Sititi and Lakai may make a difference when they're back but we'll have to wait and see there.

A few impressive performances especially given all the changes made to the team, which were always going to lead to a subpar outing. Robertson might’ve answered a couple of question throughout the series but he also has some big decisions to make heading into the Rugby Championship.

@Nepia said in All Blacks v France III:

FFS, no lock reserve.

Locks are 6's and 6's are locks now.

And all loose forward positions are interchangeable so all opensides are blindsides and all opensides are locks. Kirifi is lock cover.

@Landers92 said in All Blacks v France III:

I don’t mind seeing different combinations. In my opinion though, if the backline has that many changes we better not have too many in the forward pack or else it could all be quite clunky.

We moan we don’t rotate and get other players/combinations out there, when that does happen we moan about who gets rotated and we don’t see certain players in certain positions. It’s a pretty hard balancing act.

I’m happy with this backline if all we see is a swap for Vaa’i and maybe a rotation at the prop positions. Bold if Razor is going for heavy rotation in the pack too.

FWIW, I’ll continue to post any AB oil I hear for this match in this match thread. I promise I’m not actually in the AB camp in any capacity

I don’t know. They could have their first choice backline and, for example, swap out one inside and one outside back each week or just swap out the halfback and first five or the two midfielders. Two players not in their favoured starting lineup each week and if someone stands out while amongst the core group, they might stay on for the next week. No need for wholesale changes every third or fourth week.

@gt12 said in All Blacks v France III:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France III:

lol fuck.

If this goes sideways as it normally does when you change literally everyone then every single one of these poor fluffybunnies can kiss their year goodbye.

I hate this sort of selecting so much.
Rotate in one or two guys so you can see how they go. This is only downside unless all of them click, in which case it will still be written off as a dead rubber.

I agree and I'll add that this illustrates poor/reluctant use of the bench to give players more game time. If they thought players couldn't handle a certain number of minutes or wanted to give certain players more game time, that could've been done by making one or two changes per test, playing certain players alongside the core group, as you say, or by bringing players off the bench for more than ten or fifteen minutes at the end of the game. The A team for two weeks followed by the B team just doesn't work well.

I was really hoping they wouldn't make that many changes. I can see things getting pretty sloppy, especially if they do the same with the forwards. Not sure they'll be able to accurately assess individual players well.

@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v France III:

@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v France III:

The guys who haven’t played yet are all clearly third-choice other than Lienert-Brown who they know all about and who has been slipping in form for a while now.

There's no evidence so far that Lio Willie and Kirifi are better than Jacobson and Papali'i.

Based on what we've seen from BB and Dmac, Love has to be given an opportunity. It's not clear that these guys offer more than what Love potentially could.

I said in my original post I’d give Love a full half. Jacobson is out injured, isn’t he? And I feel like Lakai would be in the squad if fit ahead of Kirifi and Papali'i.

Fair enough I missed that inclusion of Love. Hotham over Ratima is also worth investigating.

That’s my fault, I mentioned Love in one sentence, then generalised the players who hadn’t played in another.

Hotham’’s a possibility. I’m kind of interested to see how things might go if they started with the second choice halfback and brought Roigard on at (or even before) half time, rather than keeping him on the field till hes out on his feet. The next best halfbacks don’t seem to have much impact off the bench so it might be an idea to give them the first thirty just to be solid against a fresh and fired up opposition.

@MN5 said in All Blacks v France II:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks v France II:

@MN5 said in All Blacks v France II:

@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:

@voodoo said in All Blacks v France 2:

@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:

@voodoo

Robertson's plan was to give everyone a run according to him.

Proctor has very much been a mixed bag.

Kirifi was picked on his ability to win turnovers and his good discipline. He hasn't won a single turnover so far and gave away 3 penalties in 20 minutes yesterday.

Yep, I heard the statement from coach, just saying I hate it.

I’d personally agree on Proctor, but I’d add that the consensus seems to be a decent T2 improvement on a fairly forgettable T1 - so why not give him another go to see if he can build on it? We know what ALB and Rieko offer there, let’s carry on with creating depth.

> Kirifi looked so frustrated today arguing with the ref didn’t he?

I'm pretty neutral on what happens with Proctor at the moment but it would seem that Proctor was a big part of their plan. The backline hasn't been great though and we got out to an early lead yesterday by keeping it tight.

I've always suspected that Kirifi would not go well with refs who are not Kiwis or Aussies. I doubt the coaches will appreciate the ongoing dialogue he was having with the ref

Interesting seeing a lot of these guys up close in my first AB test since 2011.

The thought of injuries striking and a loose trio of Savea, Lio Willie and Kirifi on the field at the same time is too ridiculous for words. We know what Ardie brings but the other two will just get rag dolled by bigger teams. They honestly looked like halfbacks out there. Savea is still such an X factor player though. The run to set up Vaai was amazing to see.

Reiko Ioane is bigger than I thought he’d be. Would have been good to see him have a crack on the outside. Possibly not as sharp as he used to be.

TNT a pocket battleship, worth persevering with.

Proctor a bit rocks and diamonds.

Jordie effective and did well to bounce back from that tip tackle.

Tuipulotu toiled hard, seems rough he’ll probably be jettisoned when Barrett comes back because they’ll certainly keep Holland on the park as much as possible.

Vaai going from strength to strength. This could be his long term position. Not good news for Finau who did nothing.

Food excellent if over priced ( I had two separate feeds as I was starving ). Beer tolerable.

Was at game too MN5, thoroughly enjoyed it (not unusual usually do go and enjoy tests). Wouldn't really argue with any of your points. The couple of takeaways I got was Holland was f***en good again, Vaa'i just looks the part of a good big 6, and I not convinced about Lio-Willie. Thought Proctor was not bad at all, can't remember Reiko doing a better job at 13 for a good while. Was overly pretty pleased, though it got messy at end when game was wrapped up.

What does this guys actually bring to the table ?

Not taking the piss, genuine question if anyone wants to answer

I don’t think he’s been bad but it’s a little bit of last man standing with him. They could’ve selected Sotutu in the original squad but other than that, looking at the current squad and the list of injured players, I think Lio-Willie is a guy we won’t see much of when other players get fit. There are a few players in the squad right now who I feel are only there because there’s not much else around right now.

@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v France III:

The guys who haven’t played yet are all clearly third-choice other than Lienert-Brown who they know all about and who has been slipping in form for a while now.

There's no evidence so far that Lio Willie and Kirifi are better than Jacobson and Papali'i.

Based on what we've seen from BB and Dmac, Love has to be given an opportunity. It's not clear that these guys offer more than what Love potentially could.

I said in my original post I’d give Love a full half. Jacobson is out injured, isn’t he? And I feel like Lakai would be in the squad if fit ahead of Kirifi and Papali'i.

@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:

@ShaquilleOatmeal

The backline and loose forwards have a number of question marks around them. It's not clear who the third and forth choice players are in a number of positions and even 1st and 2nd choice are not clear either.

A number of players are cruising off the back of a dominant tight five. We probably aren't going to get the same level of tight five dominance against first choice top 4 teams.

I don’t disagree but from within the squad they’ve chosen and with the players out injured, I don’t see much they can do to find the answers to those questions.

They know guys like Jordie Barrett, Will Jordan and Cam Roigard are going to be in the team. They know Ardie Savea is going to be in the team and Vaa’i should be persisted with at blindside with no uninjured potentially better options available.

The guys who haven’t played yet are Love, third-choice players and Lienert-Brown who they know all about and who has been slipping in form for a while now.

I just don’t see much benefit in making more than a handful of changes. Keep the core group together and hope they continue to improve.

I’m not keen on seeing them making a lot of changes. I know Robertson has stated he intends to give everyone a run but that doesn’t necessarily mean making a lot of changes or giving everyone a lot of time on the field. I also don’t think that has to include players currently with the squad as injury cover.

If it were up to me, assuming injured players don’t make a come back and nobody else is out, I’d make very few changes. Perhaps start Ratima and McKenzie then swap them both at half time for Roigard and Love. Swap out the front row at or even before half time. Give Tavatavanawai or Tupaea and some of the other reserves who look like they’ll be in the main 23 thirty minutes.

I don’t see the need for giving third or fourth choice players big minutes. Use the bench to rest players who might need it.

@MN5 said in All Blacks v France 2:

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France 2:

@MN5 said in All Blacks v France 2:

@george33 said in All Blacks v France 2:

Rumours are that Caleb Clarke went down at training in serious doubt.
Any one got any more news on that.

Jordan to wing, Love to FB. Straight swap

thats not a straight swap thought is it.....

its the first thing i thought of though too, jordan on the left or does RI go back to the left?

Fine then Mr Pedantic

Love in and some positional changes.

Happy ?

Kind of a straight swap for what they played with for 79 minutes last weekend. It's probably what I'd be inclined to go for too.

@Kirwan said in All Blacks v France 2:

So what's the consenus on this team? I'm surprised at the apathy here at us nearly getting tipped up by the French B team.

I don't think this a strong All Black squad, I think four years of Ryan as forwards coach and the same problems in the loosies (if anything we've gone backwards there) is pretty damning.

I can see us relying on individual brilliance, from newish players like Roigard, to paper over these cracks.

Given the injuries, I don't think there are many changes they could make to improve the team from within the squad they've selected and I'm happy they haven't gone for a drastically different line up. Another scratchy performance this week, especially from certain individual players, and they might shift things around more for the third test but, again, I'm not sure they have all the many options in a number of areas so maybe sticking with players they think have potential and giving them time to improve is the way to go. I'm also not sure the less than optimal performance from last week was down to the players as much as the game plan or lack of time together. If that's right, changing the players won't help much.