The Silver Fern

@OomPB oi, I'm not from paarl.

@DaGrubster

Taking a 30000 foot view, I think there are echos (both good and bad) with where NZ were around 2012.

The good-

Stability of coaching structure
A stability of season structure and decent finances.
An experienced core with good young talent coming in.

The bad -

A slippage on the periphery- the sevens and u20 sides are behind where they were 5 years earlier.
Concerns around the age profile of certain position groups.

The challenge for Rassie in the next 18 months is to set the boks up for 2026 and 2027 because some great players are going to age out of the side in that period and others will be breaking down doors and finding out which is which is going be very tough.

@stodders I think that's kinda the wrong question.

It is true that SA were pretty sloppy in both tests and have the potential to be 15 to 20 points better than they were in these games. But potential is a stupid metric.

This trend of making errors at bad times and tripping over themselves has been a constant this whole season, so I'd say the way we played is consistent with how good this team is, bit there is a lot of room to get better.

But what I would say it better over ten tests to win 7 or eight than win 5 with massive points difference. So I wouldn't say we are 20 points better than All Blacks, right now we are two or three games better over a hypothetical 10 match series.

@OomPB they are also over thirty years old themselves

In think we're in a pretty good space. The team that played on saturday was missing the following guys from the strongest 23 -

Kitshoff
Snyman
De Jager
Mostert
De Klerk
Arendse
Willemse

I also think that the last couple of games have shown that some veterans are being played out of the by younger guys coming in rather old guys falling off (Mngomozulu v Pollard, Fassi v Le Roux and Louw vs Wiese).

We have a kind schedule until the next two games in New Zealand in 2025. Frankly it would be a failure not to dominate for the next 18months or so.

But the big elephant in the room is how we deal with an aging pack. Who do we keep in the side, who gets shifted out and who comes in. We have gotten used to having 10 to 15 world class tight forwards to pick from - that is not normal and you don't think we can just presume the next Etsebeth, Marx, Malherbe, whoever is just going to come out of nowhere.

Thar said - there are some truly great players coming through in positions 7 (our seven) to 15.

@KiwiMurph nah.. Bell had a nick above the eye. Players play with a lot worse, but even if they have to get treatment, Bell would have been back if Shmidt wasn't a cheating fuck.

Nah mate he is proper little bitch. Good for him to save his team from a bigger reaming at home (not sure it made a difference on scoreboard).

@sparky there really is nothing to see here. I have a view about Shmidt which is very unflattering. Bones says something, but nothing I can argue against.

I have developed a negative view of him based on the way he argues, but if anything substantive comes up I will probably keep my same view.

@Bones I good faith yes.

You have proven that you are not where we are going to get that.

@Bones fuck right off

@Bones I honestly want to hear your view. What you have posted so far doesn't necessarily suggest we would we agree.

I have stated my position and if you disagree, then fine, but I'd love to have something we could agree on.

BTW, I don't think we would agree on much

@Bones I really don't understand the argument. Are you saying Mbonambi was kept back for the inevitable Marx yellow card later in the game?

@KiwiMurph oh I think I need to be clearer.

The on field call seemed to be that the Wallabies lost two loose heads to HIAs. The first we heard of the blood injury was from the post game presser.

I'm very sure it will not be investigated, but I'd love to hear what was said to the fourth official on all the subs.

@OomPB i agree, we were very poor in this game. Half the newbies had failing grades on this performance. We left three very obvious tries out there.

I strongly believe Shmidt cheated and that will get all the responses, but the most disrespectful view I hold of the Wallabies is that they were irrelevant to this game. The top half of the currie cup would have won this game, that is how poor the boks were today.

Sacha, Morne and Elrigh will be better for this game though. Players make mistakes when they go up the ranks and getting those mistakes out of the way benefits the boks in the long run.

@Bones the audio from the actual game, it was a strange call at the time so it pretty jarring.

@KiwiMurph you have now twice used the argument "he didn't have to". I think you are wrong in law (argued elsewhere), but on "spirit of game"-grounds you have absolutely no basis.

Either Bell could play (which is the version I believe) and Shmidt decided it to more beneficial to have him not play. Even if you (wrongly imo) believe Shmidt could make that decision, I am more than justified in calling him a gutless pos.

Or he couldn't play (which seems to be your position, please correct me), then they should definitely go down to 14 for for not actually picking 23 players.

@KiwiMurph https://passport.world.rugby/player-welfare-medical/medical-protocols-for-match-day-medical-staff/blood-injury/

The site is not clear on what happens after 15 min, but I'd argue that after 15 min it stops being a blood injury.

If the 15 min does not apply, then surely it becomes an impact injury.

@NTA no problem with winning. We won, by some points, we left some points on the pitch, we didn't even play very well and any sanction on Shmidt will in no way benefit us. Honestly I dont think the cheating a jot of difference to the score.

In 2019 WC final Jones had the opportunity to pull the same BS, he didn't cause he is only a piece of shit. Shmidt should get all the flame for this.

@NTA Hmm, Mbonambi went off on a tactical change (though injured, but SA wanted to keep their options open).

@NTA what's your view? Is Bell injured in a way that allows the game to uncontested? Which rule?

Do you honestly believe cheating fluffybunny would have made that call if the scrum was going to be even close to balanced for the last 35 min?

@KiwiMurph A - if he thought his scrum had a prayer, Bell would have been out there.

B - in what world does his previous injury make any fucken difference? He was picked in a team representing Australia, either he is up for the job or they play with 14. Lying to the refs gets you a long fucken ban.