The Silver Fern

ulsterman

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Pot Hale" data-cid="582384" data-time="1464139098">
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Yes. Although I'd be fairly sure that none of those players would describe their nationality as Irish per se. Northern Irish or British more likely. ;)
 
I put the list together especially for Jegga. :)
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This listing of players as "British" is incredibly ignorant. Not one of those players grew up wanting to play for a national rugby team other than Ireland - ergo, they're Irish. (Unless you want to make this a religion thing?)

ulsterman

Ulster are away to Leinster this Friday. Should be a better match than thon. (Though that's not saying much.) Between Jackson, Luke Marshall and Payne we have three decent first receivers; if and when Olding gets on the pitch that's 4. Which has basically meant when we've been able to secure quick ball (wing-and-a-prayer on that one - anyone remember Sean Reidy? He's a starter for us), we've been shredding teams.
 
If Leinster win, it'll be a crap game for the neutral in all likelihood.

ulsterman

My point on Aki was, he's bought into the province since getting here, as opposed to (say) Payne, who is basically only involved in provincial games now in order to be ready for Test windows, which reduces the credibility of his commitment to the whole package.

ulsterman

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="570185" data-time="1459953047">
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Yeah I take your point. A 5 or 6 year stand down would probably knock the stuffing out of the Project Player policy. I'm interested to know though, your views on the Project. Are you happy that your Union is taking such a stance? Do you feel even a little bit dis-enfranchised from your national team because of it? 
Not trolling at all, I am genuinely interested to know.
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It depends, player to player. Someone like Jared Payne - a fullback who has been shifted to 13 purely to fill a gap at Ireland level, and has barely made an appearance for Ulster since qualifying for Ireland - feels a little plastic, as you get the feeling he's there for the professional challenge, rather than the "national" challenge. Other players though, like Stander, Robbie Diack (though his national involvement has been minimal) or Richardt Strauss have clearly got more buy-in (for some reason Saffers often seem to fit better in Ireland), and it's a better fit.
 
EDIT: Would also add, Bundee Aki would be another who would fit into the "genuine buy-in" bracket. It was partially a career consideration, yes, but he's very clearly becoming a Connacht man, which is nice to see.

ulsterman

A move from 3 to (say) 5 or 6 would probably remove most of that.
 
Key case in point - Wiehahn Herbst was 3rd-choice TH with the Sharks, and wasn't getting anywhere. Ulster offered him a 3-year contract (essentially gaming the current system.)
 
Now if the project period was 6 years instead of 3, I would say that Herbst may well still have taken that contract. He was a very good TH who was unfortunately stuck behind 2 even better THs, both for Sharks and South Africa, and would have a chance to play rugby and earn very good money. International rugby after 6 years? Might be a very very light sweetener at the end, but there's no way it would be in any way a decisive factor; nobody would forecast their performances for that timescale.

ulsterman

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="569979" data-time="1459867720">
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Ulsterman, I don't see a problem with all that as far as it relates to the provinces, just the same as I don't see any great moral issue with the English or French clubs paying stupid amounts of cash for foreign players. I do think though that any concerted effort by ANY Union to actively source players from another country is downright piss-poor and ought to be sorted out sooner rather than later, no matter which Union it may be. I'm not altogether sure about how the French national team are doing in regard to recruitment of foreign players, but so far have seen little from England in this respect. There are certain players that have qualified on residency grounds and the obscure Grandmother rule and these I reckon ought to be sorted out too. Five years not three for residency. Parents not Grandparents for qualification via family. 
I'm not saying here that England have been exemplary in some of their selections Barrit is perhaps moot. Hard to deny his qualification as he is a UK passport holder but, given his history I'd rather not have picked him. Waldrom is another. He moved to the UK to play in a different environment and it was found he qualified through the Grandparent rule. He was not targeted by the RFU. However, as he is a dyed in the wool Kiwi I think we were wrong to pick him. He may have been deserving in regard to his performances and he may be qualified but was it "right"? IMO, No. Same for Hughes. Great player. Will be qualified for England soon. Should he be picked? IMO No. 
Hartley, Vunipolas and Tuilagi I have no problems with. They've been here for ages and have made the UK their home since they were kids or adolescents. Rokoduguni - again no problem with this one. He is a soldier first and foremost. If he is allowed to die for the UK I'm more than happy to let him play international rugby for any of the UK nations. Also he was not an established player that was targeted. 
I have to say I'm surprised at any fan defending the Project Player thing. I'd be devastated and ashamed if the RFU did something like that. I'd also question the sense in sending out a message to any aspiring genuine players that if we get the chance and see someone better than you elsewhere, then we'll dump you at a moment's notice. It just stinks from an ethical viewpoint and from a how to treat your own players viewpoint. I honestly think that if England were stacked with a load of foreign mercenaries I would lose any desire to see them play.
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To repeat myself - I basically agree with your point. Project players should require 5 or 6 years residency period.

ulsterman

I actually think the Irish rules on provincial squad composition are the best that can be hoped for.
 
<ol><li>4 NIQ (not-Irish-Qualified) players per province. 1 of these must be uncapped and therefore nominally eligible to play for Ireland (for Ulster, the most recent are Robbie Diack, then Jared Payne, now currently Wiehahn Herbst.)</li>
<li>Can't have more than 1 NIQ player in a particular position over the 3 "big" provinces (Leinster-Ulster-Munster) - this ensures there are at least 2 IQ players starting regular top-tier European rugby. (This definition, originally from 7/8 years ago or more, is looking a little odd at the minute with Connacht outstripping at least 2 of the big 3.)</li>
<li>There's a little bit of flexibility. Connacht have more leeway as they've got less money; we recently were allowed to keep Louis Ludik on as a "project" player, when he's never going to play for Ireland, as he's a brilliant squad member.</li>
</ol> 
I do agree with you on the project time - it should be either 5 or 6 years. But for a nation with a small playing pool like Ireland, a system which aims to facilitate a small number of world- (or at least Test-) class foreign players (Piutau, Coetzee, Pienaar), leading and educating a core of indigenous talent, is ideal.

ulsterman

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="569847" data-time="1459780252">
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Nah. The Tuilagis and Vunipolas were not established Super Rugby players who were offered convenient 3 year deals by England. From memory they moved there as teenagers.
 
What your union is doing Ulsterman is looking for areas of weakness in the Irish team, then targeting Super Rugby players who have yet to wear Black or Green and offering them 3-year deals. They don't even try and hide it, these players are labelled by the IRFU themselves as "Project Players".
 
So the recent 6N saw Nathan White (OK, no Kiwis crying about this one), C J Stander, Richard Strauss, and Jared Payne all play for Ireland.
 
I think in 2017 Bundee O'Aki, Jake O'Heenan and Tom McCartney all come on board the Irish train. I think Tyler Blyendaal is also a project player, and it's all but confirmed that Jamison Gibson-Park is the next project player.
 
There will always be players who chnage country for whatever reason, and I don't have a problem with it, but the 3-years is too short, and is being cynically targeted by Ireland > Scotland > Wales.
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To be clear, I'm not defending the practice from any of the 6 Nations. Just pointing out that although England and France have less (not none) "nominally" English/French players (Hartley, Barritt, Vakatawa), they do play the system, just more often from a lower age-profile.

ulsterman

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="569427" data-time="1459592264">
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I hope World Rugby puts a stop to this, but I'm not hopeful. If people want to move for money, a change of scene etc fine. But this deliberate targeting of SANZAR players with 3 year contracts to bolster mediocre 6N sides (mainly the Celtic ones) is a joke. Especially with all the PI poaching crap down thru the years.
 
5 years to qualify should see the end of it.
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I agree with your sentiment, but one can't really exempt England and France from accusations of poaching - they're just better at doing it earlier (Tuilagis, Vunipolas, those French PI academies . . .)

ulsterman

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="564371" data-time="1457857985">
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T'was a great try alright. Some might qualify it it by saying "Well, Italy", but you still have to see the plays and make the passes stick. It was great to watch as a neutral. Best try of the championship so far and unlikely to be bested.
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McFadden nearly fecked it up at the end, I was unsurprised to see. Fix your man and pass? No, don't fix your man and throw it borderline forward, forcing Heaslip to reach back and carry 2 defenders he shouldn't have had to, to finish the try.
 
But still, he's versatile. (We'll ignore the fact that when Henshaw was blood-binned, McFadden didn't use his versatility as a direct replacement: no less than 3 players (Payne-Earls-McFadden) shifted position from starting point.)

ulsterman

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="562519" data-time="1457140698">
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Don't know any stats kiwiinmelb but with the natural (slight) curve of a ball, it does exist, if only psychologically. All kickers have experienced a ball sliding in one of the far uprights that doesn't happen on the other side of the field.
 
But your premise is correct, the modern pro kicker should never succomb to having a preferred side
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As a left-footer, I'd instinctively prefer kicking from the right-hand side of the pitch. It's particularly more comfortable for kickers who come around the side a little in their approach, as opposed to straight up.
 
All of that should really be accounted for at the top level, though.

ulsterman

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Gunner" data-cid="562254" data-time="1457053970">
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'_____ loves to run with the ball in hand'
 
Well duh, that's what the game is all about.
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Not in the Northern Hemisphere, it's not . . .
 
 
 
 
 
Ulster being the only professional rugby team in NI, we basically have dedicated TV coverage of (almost) all their matches on BBC2NI, with the most "homer" commentator ever - Jim Neilly. He is utterly useless from any objective viewpoint, but is normally good for 1 or 2 unintentional gems per game. Examples include:
 
"Nick Williams - he's like a sledgehammer hitting a meringue!"
 
Ulster, having reclaimed the ball from kick-off, lose a turnover with 3:22 on the clock - "And Ulster lose the ball after holding possession for 5 minutes solid."
 
Stephen Ferris on the charge - "He's turned into a train with no station, absolutely unstoppable."
 
After redhead Paddy Jackson took a heavy tackle - "He's looking a bit ginger on it." (Pun not intended, I guarantee you.)
 
After Paul O'Connell knocked on near the tryline - "He's got white-line fever . . . mind you the only time I get white line fever nowadays is when I'm parking the car."
 
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.uafc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15637&hilit=gusher#p354253'>http://www.uafc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15637&hilit=gusher#p354253</a>

ulsterman

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="KiwiMurph" data-cid="561178" data-time="1456486778">
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There's some highlights on youtube.
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Only "highlights" I can find are of a streaker . . . not what I had in mind . . .

ulsterman

Any highlights of the game? I'm an hour into my working day for a lot of Super Rugby, sadly

ulsterman

Murray Kinsella's at it again:
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.the42.ie/ireland-wales-scrum-analysis-4-2595266-Feb2016/'>http://www.the42.ie/ireland-wales-scrum-analysis-4-2595266-Feb2016/</a>
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-wales-six-nations-2016-attack-2594078-Feb2016/'>http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-wales-six-nations-2016-attack-2594078-Feb2016/</a>
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-defence-wales-six-nations-2016-2591653-Feb2016/'>http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-defence-wales-six-nations-2016-2591653-Feb2016/</a>

ulsterman

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Tim" data-cid="554914" data-time="1454023850">
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<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.theguardian.com/sport/behind-the-lines/2016/jan/28/roger-wilson-interview-ulster-ireland-rugby-union'>â€˜Jesus, Iâ€ve got slowâ€: the pain of approaching the end of a rugby career</a>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="554916" data-time="1454024949">
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That was awesome Tim. Different levels obviously, but i really identified with how he was feeling, in terms of during the game, after the game, and what i miss the most. I finished at the same age he is as well.
 
 
 
I am most of the way through Dan's book. One thing i will say, it's refreshingly honest. 
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Not so fecking awesome for me - he is a prime member of a back row whose most effective asset is (until the end of the season, at least) Nick fecking Williams . . .

ulsterman

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rowan" data-cid="554558" data-time="1453894640">
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"So you don't know how the SA bid was better than NZs then? Probably best you stop claiming it then."
 
That's a very haughty attitude to take. Are we not entitled to express opinions here then? It's a long time ago since the 2011 tournament was awarded to NZ, and I don't recall the finer details, I'm afraid, but I distinctly recall the South Africa bid appeared superior to me. What I do know are the comments I expressed above, which you failed to address in your response. 
 
 
"The Samoa comment is silly, it makes your argument look even weaker." 
 
No, it's your dismissive attitude which comes across as silly. It's a perfectly fair comment I made; the point being, where would you draw the line with small nation tournaments? Ireland is geographically tiny and the weather conditions are not conducive to the open, expansive brand of rugby most of us would like to see - and which we did see in South Africa in 1995. As mentioned, there are only two major cities and a limited number of stadiums - almost none of which would be rugby purpose stadiums. South Africa, meanwile, not only has among the best rugby purpose stadiums on the planet, it also has a vast array of football stadiums, many of which were upgraded for the 2010 FIFA World Cup. It also has a population of 50 million, and geographical dimensions which are about perfect for a World Cup tournament - which loads to do for the travelling fan.
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England has the same climate as Ireland. England just hosted arguably the most expansive Rugby World Cup in the professional era.
 
The 1995 final:
 
 - Was won by a team marking Jonah Lomu out of the game
 - Had no tries, and was won by a drop-goal in extra time.
 
 
Not exactly open rugby . . .

ulsterman

The best 4 or 5 teams in the Pro12 - on current form Ulster, Leinster, Scarlets, Glasgow and Ospreys - could just about hold a game against (say) the worst 5 teams in Super Rugby.
 
The rest of them would have trouble in the ITM Cup.

ulsterman

This may be Kinsella's best article yet - deconstructing Munster's humiliation away to Stade Francais. He was (before serious injury) in the Munster academy, which may explain the very cutting (though not inaccurate) tone:
 
 
â€˜These lads are shitting themselves,â€ Stade would have thought after this, or after the string of four major mistakes in the seven minutes that followed half time â€“ when Munster should have been playing with confidence and energy against 14 men.
 
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.the42.ie/analysis-munster-stade-francais-champions-cup-2541782-Jan2016/'>http://www.the42.ie/analysis-munster-stade-francais-champions-cup-2541782-Jan2016/</a>

ulsterman

38-0, son! Kiss has reminded them that it's not just down to Pienaar and Jackson to pass. Marshall was spraying the ball about like . . . well not Super Rugby, but the closest we'll get.
 
The prospect of Piutau with front-foot ball arouses me.

The Silver Fern

ulsterman

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