All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Good win. Sets tour up
Yeah, against all odds really. Gardner and co. decided to go full "hometown". The crowd wanted blood, the lads with a bit of lady luck would have put 15 points on them but the bitch decided to disappear for the full 80. Even so the good guys won.
Having said that, if the lads don't improve against the whingy Green siths, things might come unstuck.@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Good win. Sets tour up
Yeah, against all odds really. Gardner and co. decided to go full "hometown". The crowd wanted blood, the lads with a bit of lady luck would have put 15 points on them but the bitch decided to disappear for the full 80. Even so the good guys won.
Having said that, if the lads don't improve against the whingy Green siths, things might come unstuck.Don't ever compare the Mics to the Sith. We maybe a bit dark and misunderstood but we're anything but whingy. Now Luke for that matter...
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Just saw the ABs IV game. How good is that jersey??? Much better than the ABs.
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DMac deserves a lot more love on here. Won the game for us.
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The problem with this whole "Reiko never puts anyone in to space" argument is that he is also never given the ball with any sort of time.
He was given it today once I can remember and he immediately gave it to Sititi, backed up and hit the ruck (we lost the ball because the rest of.pur loose forwards were again MIA).
If he was hungasing the ball and constantly blowing overlaps this argument would hold a lot more water. But he gets shit ball too because our pattern is both midfielders playing narrow flat and straight
@mariner4life fair. Reiko isn’t a creative, polish an average ball and give his wing a golden ball type centre. He is a fucking lethal strike running 13 though.
So it’s stupid to look at him as the reason the ball’s getting hung up in his hands. That’s a symptom of the shit being shovelled by the bros inside him not a cause.
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@mariner4life fair. Reiko isn’t a creative, polish an average ball and give his wing a golden ball type centre. He is a fucking lethal strike running 13 though.
So it’s stupid to look at him as the reason the ball’s getting hung up in his hands. That’s a symptom of the shit being shovelled by the bros inside him not a cause.
@Smuts said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@mariner4life fair. Reiko isn’t a creative, polish an average ball and give his wing a golden ball type centre. He is a fucking lethal strike running 13 though.
So it’s stupid to look at him as the reason the ball’s getting hung up in his hands. That’s a symptom of the shit being shovelled by the bros inside him not a cause.
Except he hasn't been lethal ball in hand either for bang on 2 years now. And this is at Blues level as well not just All Blacks.
I swear just replacing Jordie/Rieko with some of our inform midfielders would produce a 10x increase in attacking potency.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Chris said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Sititi is a brilliant selection by Razor he was Hugh again.
That leg injury to Niggles which opened the door to Sititi was inspired.
Yep absolutely Brilliant.Of course Razor did pick him in the squad at the start of the year when a lot of people said why, not a great selection he is too raw etc.
@Chris said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Chris said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Sititi is a brilliant selection by Razor he was Hugh again.
That leg injury to Niggles which opened the door to Sititi was inspired.
Yep absolutely Brilliant.Of course Razor did pick him in the squad at the start of the year when a lot of people said why, not a great selection he is too raw etc.
"Lot of people?" Sititi was a stand-out in SR so really not a hard choice. It was the selection of Christie at 9 and Havili in the backline and the selection of Mr "Always Injured" over Sotutu that people criticised.
Had Christie not been injured and Roigard returned so quickly, we'd likely still be having TJP/Christie/Ratima discussions/moans for this match.
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@Smuts said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@mariner4life fair. Reiko isn’t a creative, polish an average ball and give his wing a golden ball type centre. He is a fucking lethal strike running 13 though.
So it’s stupid to look at him as the reason the ball’s getting hung up in his hands. That’s a symptom of the shit being shovelled by the bros inside him not a cause.
Except he hasn't been lethal ball in hand either for bang on 2 years now. And this is at Blues level as well not just All Blacks.
I swear just replacing Jordie/Rieko with some of our inform midfielders would produce a 10x increase in attacking potency.
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Re-watched the intercept try. Diabolically bad play from Ratima. It was quick ball off two very good carries, he wasn't looking at the defence at all. He really had a shocker.
@Tim said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Re-watched the intercept try. Diabolically bad play from Ratima. It was quick ball off two very good carries, he wasn't looking at the defence at all. He really had a shocker.
I was thinking the same.
If he had been able to step Itoje, there was nothing in behind. Alternatively he could have taken the hit and then tried to offload to Jordan or a kick pass and no was behind if he executed it right.
Instead he failed to see that Smith has flown forward looking for the incept and took an age about his pass to make his intercept easy.
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Am doing a lot of flying to and from work so had an hour or two to rewatch the downloaded the match. I never rewatch because I just don't have time.
It gave me a real insight into how I hate watch rugby.
I watch the ball, and immediate surrounds, and grumble.
I generally miss a lot of comments by the commentators, and a lot of subtleties in the game, player and Ref comments, stuff off the ball.
So I had the opportunity to look at a few incidents, and listen to what was going on, and came up with a few insights (which many of may already have got but) which I'll share with you below.
First off the ball tackle by Jordie was just bracing for impact.
2nd was dumb by Aumua
3rd by Cane, much the same as Jordie's. Braces himself and CCS runs into him. No wrap, and minimal impact.
What obligation do defenders have to get out of the way of potential ball runners?
ALBs one, at 77 ish mins, was Aumua-esque.
So two out of four penalisable IMO.
Other stuff:
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Comment by Wilson (Sky NZ/Stan feed 13.50 i think) while awaiting scrum is spookily prescient re intercept tries.
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Interesting comments by Gus at 21.29 as to why he didn't call blatantly forward pass Itoje to Spencer. "It might’ve been flat eh? Honestly I couldn't make a definitive call. Positionally I was compromised." Fair enough.
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Can you actually charge a mark? Need to find the law.
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England overhyped a reasonable tackle by CCS.
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Good to see pat on back and encouragement for Sititi after that blown pass to Vaa'i from Cane.
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It was Williams who got in Ratima's road for the intercept.
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Fatima seems like she'll have a long and prosperous career for the ABs according to autocorrect.
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Nisbet and Wilson sewm to be in studio in NZ, not at the ground.
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Ryan being criticised for Movembering. To be fair, it's a good can't effort for day two. May have had a headstart?
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Was that Itoje squealing like a girl at the contact at 49min? My goodness.
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at 52.20 someone (Ardie?) says "watch the sealing Angus".
"Yep"
Next ruck Poms flop over top and seal.
"Sealing!"
Ignores ... -
Really liked the old school random chaos of the up and under from the free kick.
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multiple Poms really getting in Angus's face after the CC "deliberate knock on" at 58.49. Quite passive aggressively intimidating.
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Penalty at 61.40 ... ~it's not a penalty if nobody is actually holding the ball, but old mate can't pick it up because he is being driven off it.~ This pissed me off at the time because of the deliberate offside and scramble around on the ground that messed up good ball, with Angus yelling "no no no", a phase or three prior. (Replay may have shown Sititi holding on ... but my point stands ... ). See above about intimidation.
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Re the Rieko no pass (73.55). I reckon he made the right call. ALB would have worn the tackle at the precise moment he caught the ball.
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Probably got away with a fake at the tap kick by Aumua immediately thereafter, but could argue the Poms should have been carded for continuing to offend, professionally, while Angus (again) yells at them ineffectually to stop.
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Just noticed Itoje went in with the boot (to no avail, with no imoact) on Telea's try.
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some interesting conversations on the ref mic I miss watching live, which I haven't noted here.
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Am doing a lot of flying to and from work so had an hour or two to rewatch the downloaded the match. I never rewatch because I just don't have time.
It gave me a real insight into how I hate watch rugby.
I watch the ball, and immediate surrounds, and grumble.
I generally miss a lot of comments by the commentators, and a lot of subtleties in the game, player and Ref comments, stuff off the ball.
So I had the opportunity to look at a few incidents, and listen to what was going on, and came up with a few insights (which many of may already have got but) which I'll share with you below.
First off the ball tackle by Jordie was just bracing for impact.
2nd was dumb by Aumua
3rd by Cane, much the same as Jordie's. Braces himself and CCS runs into him. No wrap, and minimal impact.
What obligation do defenders have to get out of the way of potential ball runners?
ALBs one, at 77 ish mins, was Aumua-esque.
So two out of four penalisable IMO.
Other stuff:
-
Comment by Wilson (Sky NZ/Stan feed 13.50 i think) while awaiting scrum is spookily prescient re intercept tries.
-
Interesting comments by Gus at 21.29 as to why he didn't call blatantly forward pass Itoje to Spencer. "It might’ve been flat eh? Honestly I couldn't make a definitive call. Positionally I was compromised." Fair enough.
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Can you actually charge a mark? Need to find the law.
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England overhyped a reasonable tackle by CCS.
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Good to see pat on back and encouragement for Sititi after that blown pass to Vaa'i from Cane.
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It was Williams who got in Ratima's road for the intercept.
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Fatima seems like she'll have a long and prosperous career for the ABs according to autocorrect.
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Nisbet and Wilson sewm to be in studio in NZ, not at the ground.
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Ryan being criticised for Movembering. To be fair, it's a good can't effort for day two. May have had a headstart?
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Was that Itoje squealing like a girl at the contact at 49min? My goodness.
-
at 52.20 someone (Ardie?) says "watch the sealing Angus".
"Yep"
Next ruck Poms flop over top and seal.
"Sealing!"
Ignores ... -
Really liked the old school random chaos of the up and under from the free kick.
-
multiple Poms really getting in Angus's face after the CC "deliberate knock on" at 58.49. Quite passive aggressively intimidating.
-
Penalty at 61.40 ... ~it's not a penalty if nobody is actually holding the ball, but old mate can't pick it up because he is being driven off it.~ This pissed me off at the time because of the deliberate offside and scramble around on the ground that messed up good ball, with Angus yelling "no no no", a phase or three prior. (Replay may have shown Sititi holding on ... but my point stands ... ). See above about intimidation.
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Re the Rieko no pass (73.55). I reckon he made the right call. ALB would have worn the tackle at the precise moment he caught the ball.
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Probably got away with a fake at the tap kick by Aumua immediately thereafter, but could argue the Poms should have been carded for continuing to offend, professionally, while Angus (again) yells at them ineffectually to stop.
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Just noticed Itoje went in with the boot (to no avail, with no imoact) on Telea's try.
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some interesting conversations on the ref mic I miss watching live, which I haven't noted here.
@booboo Agree on the tackles off the ball. Aumua's hit was late, which is a different story, but if you're defending in the line against a flat attack with dummy runners, there's really nothing you can do - you either line them up to hit them and can't get out of the way completely if they don't get the ball, or you don't line them up properly and if they get the ball you can't tackle them properly. At the time I thought terrible officiating, and not how the game has been reffed in the past, and probably the poms got in Gardner's ear pre-game for him to do that. I'm generally a fan of his reffing - not so much his decisions as his clear communications - but I thought that overall was one of the poorer games I've seen from him.
I do wonder if you went down the path of throwing the hands in the air immediately the ball is gone and making it super clear that you aren't trying to make a tackle - sort of like a basketball player taking a charge - then what would the ref do? The attacking player without the ball has run into an defending player who is simply holding his ground with force, probably with a shoulder...
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Just saw the ABs IV game. How good is that jersey??? Much better than the ABs.
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Just saw the ABs IV game. How good is that jersey??? Much better than the ABs.
I'd be asking where the other XI were.
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@kpkanz Absolute bullshit. He was lethal for the ABs last year. What has changed is the coach, and the shithouse attack system. We have gone backwards.
@Tim said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@kpkanz Absolute bullshit. He was lethal for the ABs last year. What has changed is the coach, and the shithouse attack system. We have gone backwards.
Can't find the stats to confirm it, but it was mentioned RI didn't score a try this Super Season. If correct, what's the story there?
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We need a new 10. Love BB but well past it sorry to say. We have 3 years to get this right. Also we really need to sort out discipline FFS.
@mencey said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
We have 3 years to get this right.
Sorry but that attitude is a big part of what is wrong with NZ Rugby. We have 6 days to get this right.
Winning 80+% of all our tests, not folding like overcooked pasta and living up to the legacy of 125 years of AB dominance are way more important than a tournament every four years.
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@Tim said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@kpkanz Absolute bullshit. He was lethal for the ABs last year. What has changed is the coach, and the shithouse attack system. We have gone backwards.
Can't find the stats to confirm it, but it was mentioned RI didn't score a try this Super Season. If correct, what's the story there?
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Tim said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@kpkanz Absolute bullshit. He was lethal for the ABs last year. What has changed is the coach, and the shithouse attack system. We have gone backwards.
Can't find the stats to confirm it, but it was mentioned RI didn't score a try this Super Season. If correct, what's the story there?
Too busy distributing to Caleb Clarke, AJ Lam and Mark Tele'a for him to be scoring any himself
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Rieko hasn't been in his best form this year. I thought AJ Lam was noticeably better for the Blues at 13.
Rieko was such a natural rugby player that did things instinctively well when he came on the scene as a teenager brimming with confidence. Now he seems to have lost his mojo.
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ok, glad i didn;t read the thread during the game....i pretty much enjoyed it
several players very quiet, others like sititi on fire
i even didnt mind Gardenier, missed stuff...made some baffling calls....but i much prefer when refs just let stuff go, or admit they missed things and say "move on"
