All Blacks v France
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@Chris most disappointing thing that Razor said was Reece and Blackadder are made for test Rugby most likely case closed.
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@brodean said in All Blacks v France:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v France:
Weird that I'm not as upset as I should be with this loss.
Rightly or wrongly we just don't have the same expectations for the ABs
There's a difference to the way we lost compared to the last regime.
Look at the stats. We completely dominated, even some of the french in the forums are saying the same thing.
We should have finished this game in the first half (would have with Dmac).
21-3 would have been a fair reflection.
Let's not compare to the previous 4 years where against the big teams we were a genuine DISTANT second each time and looked like we needed them to capitulate for us to have a chance.
We lost both our last two French games before this by 14.
Today we were up 14-3 and comfortable and just blew it.
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v France:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v France:
Weird that I'm not as upset as I should be with this loss.
Rightly or wrongly we just don't have the same expectations for the ABs
There's a difference to the way we lost compared to the last regime.
We weren't good enough to win in other ways?
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@Chris most disappointing thing that Razor said was Reece and Blackadder are made for test Rugby most likely case closed.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks v France:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v France:
Weird that I'm not as upset as I should be with this loss.
Rightly or wrongly we just don't have the same expectations for the ABs
There's a difference to the way we lost compared to the last regime.
We weren't good enough to win in other ways?
@brodean said in All Blacks v France:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v France:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v France:
Weird that I'm not as upset as I should be with this loss.
Rightly or wrongly we just don't have the same expectations for the ABs
There's a difference to the way we lost compared to the last regime.
We weren't good enough to win in other ways?
I'm saying there's a big difference when you are clearly the inferior team and being outplayed the entire game with no chance of winning (like our last 2 games against France before today).
And today where we dominated and blew it from not converting.
There's a BIG difference.
It's not as black and white as 'we won/lost'.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v France:
What was the point in subbing Roigard
I reckon it was fitness. He just doesn't have the miles in the legs to play at that level yet.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v France:
What was the point in subbing Roigard
I reckon it was fitness. He just doesn't have the miles in the legs to play at that level yet.
I thought he was noticeably slower after the break.... I am a big fan of his and suspect you are right
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Having read this thread and unable to watch the game it generally appears to be only the AB squad and one famous French 9 were playing.
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@Chris most disappointing thing that Razor said was Reece and Blackadder are made for test Rugby most likely case closed.
@george33 said in All Blacks v France:
@Chris most disappointing thing that Razor said was Reece and Blackadder are made for test Rugby most likely case closed.
Does that automatically make any other player NOT made for test rugby by default ? I’m confused.
ie ‘Look Wallace, I’ll give you a crack at six cos Ethan got injured even though I’m really not convinced you’re up for Test Rugby….’
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@Chris-B It's actually even worse because it actually paid off.
After the kick, we held the ball and then Dmac got us into their 22 with his break.
We had the ball hot on attack in their 22. At best score a try, or hold the ball and win a penalty to win the game.
So we actually had done all the hard work. Make the kick, and get back into their 22 attacking.
Then Beauden/Rieko screwed it up.
Just such a DUMB loss to a team we could have beat by 20 today.
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v France:
@Chris-B It's actually even worse because it actually paid off.
After the kick, we held the ball and then Dmac got us into their 22 with his break.
We had the ball hot on attack in their 22. At best score a try, or hold the ball and win a penalty to win the game.
So we actually had done all the hard work. Make the kick, and get back into their 22 attacking.
Then Beauden/Rieko screwed it up.
Just such a DUMB loss to a team we could have beat by 20 today.
BB never gets criticised in press for his kicking. It’s talked up as a tactical weapon. But we were making inroads with our carry and soft options that give the ball away are just stupid.
Reiko must drop the ball more than any other centre that has played for NZ. Great player in so many ways but hitting the line at 100 miles an hour doesn’t matter if you don’t secure the ball. The crash ball is a shit option for us at the moment.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks v France:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France:
For the whole 'why take 3' argument
The only try we constructed was Lakai's in the first 10 minutes (Roigard's was a piece of individual brilliance)
And the killer French try was Vai'i triying to be too clever, hold that ball and we win
Harsh take, it was a regulation offload to a fullback in acres of space and he got his arm whacked just as he was releasing it.
We had offloaded all day to good effect, I'm not whacking for it no matter how bad the result.That whack of the arm was probably a 14 point play.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France:
@Machpants said in All Blacks v France:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France:
For the whole 'why take 3' argument
The only try we constructed was Lakai's in the first 10 minutes (Roigard's was a piece of individual brilliance)
And the killer French try was Vai'i triying to be too clever, hold that ball and we win
Harsh take, it was a regulation offload to a fullback in acres of space and he got his arm whacked just as he was releasing it.
We had offloaded all day to good effect, I'm not whacking for it no matter how bad the result.That whack of the arm was probably a 14 point play.
I only caught the highlights so can't comment on the overall game too much, but on the wide shot for that one it showed Reece had a good angle to cover the ball but seemed to just be coasting back and got absolutely skinned by their left wing as if he was one of the fatties retreating. What on earth has happened to his pace? Is he carrying a niggle or has he just hit the magical age of 27 when AB outsides form just falls off a cliff? So disappointing to see an AB winger done like that, covering those types of kicks should be their bread and butter.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks v France:
Congrats to France.
Thought that was a cracking match as a fan, aside from the result.
The NH seem intent on over officiating rugby into the ground. Well, except of course for dummy runners taking out players. There was one play where dummy runners came through and connected with both ALB and Rieko and nothing.
I don't want to raise the hackles of the Cantabs and @Chris-B but I think @Bones is right, Jordan isn't the right fit at fullback. Maybe a finishing wing is his ceiling? Especially if he want so keep up his strike rate.
Also, Reece is out of form and in a year when Telea has copped shit over his speed then how are we picking a guy who makes a tugboat look fast. Posters on here have a meltdown if DMac even steps slightly across field yet Reece runs sideways constantly putting added pressure on our team frequently.
And not to leaves the Canes fluffers out, actually Moana now, are we happy with the not as good version of Savea we have now? Maybe a decent off season will get him back to his usual form. Conversely Roigard is actually living up to the hype of his Canes marketing team. Also Lakai put in a decent shift.
I think we overdid the successful sideline play that worked so well in the early stages of the game. There were times when there was space out wide yet we just kept turning it back inside. TBH, I think this is a NZ thing as I often notice our Super teams do it as well.
Weird that I'm not as upset as I should be with this loss.
I can understand the reservations about Jordan, but im not having Beaudy back there either.
Fuck that carry on. Give me Jordan any day.
To be fair to Will he got mullered a few times but never shied away from taking it into contact.
@Jet said in All Blacks v France:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v France:
Congrats to France.
Thought that was a cracking match as a fan, aside from the result.
The NH seem intent on over officiating rugby into the ground. Well, except of course for dummy runners taking out players. There was one play where dummy runners came through and connected with both ALB and Rieko and nothing.
I don't want to raise the hackles of the Cantabs and @Chris-B but I think @Bones is right, Jordan isn't the right fit at fullback. Maybe a finishing wing is his ceiling? Especially if he want so keep up his strike rate.
Also, Reece is out of form and in a year when Telea has copped shit over his speed then how are we picking a guy who makes a tugboat look fast. Posters on here have a meltdown if DMac even steps slightly across field yet Reece runs sideways constantly putting added pressure on our team frequently.
And not to leaves the Canes fluffers out, actually Moana now, are we happy with the not as good version of Savea we have now? Maybe a decent off season will get him back to his usual form. Conversely Roigard is actually living up to the hype of his Canes marketing team. Also Lakai put in a decent shift.
I think we overdid the successful sideline play that worked so well in the early stages of the game. There were times when there was space out wide yet we just kept turning it back inside. TBH, I think this is a NZ thing as I often notice our Super teams do it as well.
Weird that I'm not as upset as I should be with this loss.
I can understand the reservations about Jordan, but im not having Beaudy back there either.
Fuck that carry on. Give me Jordan any day.
To be fair to Will he got mullered a few times but never shied away from taking it into contact.
That's the standard now is it? Fucking hell. He makes poor decisions and his defence is average.
I'm no Canes fluffer, but I want to see Love given a chance if his form next year is good.
Jordan is a Test winger at best.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France:
Increasingly noticeable for me how 10 and 15 aren't prepared in Super rugby in certain areas for the international level, such as kicking.
How was Beaudens super form? Even if he were learning those skills at international level he has enough caps to have nailed them.
McKenzie kicks often and long for the Chiefs, with Stevenson doing the same.@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France:
Increasingly noticeable for me how 10 and 15 aren't prepared in Super rugby in certain areas for the international level, such as kicking.
How was Beaudens super form? Even if he were learning those skills at international level he has enough caps to have nailed them.
McKenzie kicks often and long for the Chiefs, with Stevenson doing the same.Why are you mentioning Stevenson? Merhtens looks like Collins compared to Stevenson. In an era of "both sides of the ball" he's absent half the time.
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@Jet said in All Blacks v France:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v France:
Congrats to France.
Thought that was a cracking match as a fan, aside from the result.
The NH seem intent on over officiating rugby into the ground. Well, except of course for dummy runners taking out players. There was one play where dummy runners came through and connected with both ALB and Rieko and nothing.
I don't want to raise the hackles of the Cantabs and @Chris-B but I think @Bones is right, Jordan isn't the right fit at fullback. Maybe a finishing wing is his ceiling? Especially if he want so keep up his strike rate.
Also, Reece is out of form and in a year when Telea has copped shit over his speed then how are we picking a guy who makes a tugboat look fast. Posters on here have a meltdown if DMac even steps slightly across field yet Reece runs sideways constantly putting added pressure on our team frequently.
And not to leaves the Canes fluffers out, actually Moana now, are we happy with the not as good version of Savea we have now? Maybe a decent off season will get him back to his usual form. Conversely Roigard is actually living up to the hype of his Canes marketing team. Also Lakai put in a decent shift.
I think we overdid the successful sideline play that worked so well in the early stages of the game. There were times when there was space out wide yet we just kept turning it back inside. TBH, I think this is a NZ thing as I often notice our Super teams do it as well.
Weird that I'm not as upset as I should be with this loss.
I can understand the reservations about Jordan, but im not having Beaudy back there either.
Fuck that carry on. Give me Jordan any day.
To be fair to Will he got mullered a few times but never shied away from taking it into contact.
That's the standard now is it? Fucking hell. He makes poor decisions and his defence is average.
I'm no Canes fluffer, but I want to see Love given a chance if his form next year is good.
Jordan is a Test winger at best.
@antipodean I don't think Jordan is the second coming a lot make him out to be, but he gets a pass mark this tour.
I love the counter attacking initiative against France, but he's not actually that good at it. I bet we would have seen more returns from high balls against France than counter attacking due to the new laws. Mind you, the ref was hopelessly out of depth.
I don't think selection is ruthless enough in the current squad. I remember when J. Savea showed up a little overweight to camp (at least that's what they said, he looked fine to me?) and was dropped, he was 26 and still had an unreal strike rate. We're seeing below par performances week in and week out from some of these blokes and nothing. Is Razor cutthroat enough?
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@Jet said in All Blacks v France:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v France:
Congrats to France.
Thought that was a cracking match as a fan, aside from the result.
The NH seem intent on over officiating rugby into the ground. Well, except of course for dummy runners taking out players. There was one play where dummy runners came through and connected with both ALB and Rieko and nothing.
I don't want to raise the hackles of the Cantabs and @Chris-B but I think @Bones is right, Jordan isn't the right fit at fullback. Maybe a finishing wing is his ceiling? Especially if he want so keep up his strike rate.
Also, Reece is out of form and in a year when Telea has copped shit over his speed then how are we picking a guy who makes a tugboat look fast. Posters on here have a meltdown if DMac even steps slightly across field yet Reece runs sideways constantly putting added pressure on our team frequently.
And not to leaves the Canes fluffers out, actually Moana now, are we happy with the not as good version of Savea we have now? Maybe a decent off season will get him back to his usual form. Conversely Roigard is actually living up to the hype of his Canes marketing team. Also Lakai put in a decent shift.
I think we overdid the successful sideline play that worked so well in the early stages of the game. There were times when there was space out wide yet we just kept turning it back inside. TBH, I think this is a NZ thing as I often notice our Super teams do it as well.
Weird that I'm not as upset as I should be with this loss.
I can understand the reservations about Jordan, but im not having Beaudy back there either.
Fuck that carry on. Give me Jordan any day.
To be fair to Will he got mullered a few times but never shied away from taking it into contact.
That's the standard now is it? Fucking hell. He makes poor decisions and his defence is average.
I'm no Canes fluffer, but I want to see Love given a chance if his form next year is good.
Jordan is a Test winger at best.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@Jet said in All Blacks v France:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v France:
Congrats to France.
Thought that was a cracking match as a fan, aside from the result.
The NH seem intent on over officiating rugby into the ground. Well, except of course for dummy runners taking out players. There was one play where dummy runners came through and connected with both ALB and Rieko and nothing.
I don't want to raise the hackles of the Cantabs and @Chris-B but I think @Bones is right, Jordan isn't the right fit at fullback. Maybe a finishing wing is his ceiling? Especially if he want so keep up his strike rate.
Also, Reece is out of form and in a year when Telea has copped shit over his speed then how are we picking a guy who makes a tugboat look fast. Posters on here have a meltdown if DMac even steps slightly across field yet Reece runs sideways constantly putting added pressure on our team frequently.
And not to leaves the Canes fluffers out, actually Moana now, are we happy with the not as good version of Savea we have now? Maybe a decent off season will get him back to his usual form. Conversely Roigard is actually living up to the hype of his Canes marketing team. Also Lakai put in a decent shift.
I think we overdid the successful sideline play that worked so well in the early stages of the game. There were times when there was space out wide yet we just kept turning it back inside. TBH, I think this is a NZ thing as I often notice our Super teams do it as well.
Weird that I'm not as upset as I should be with this loss.
I can understand the reservations about Jordan, but im not having Beaudy back there either.
Fuck that carry on. Give me Jordan any day.
To be fair to Will he got mullered a few times but never shied away from taking it into contact.
That's the standard now is it? Fucking hell. He makes poor decisions and his defence is average.
I'm no Canes fluffer, but I want to see Love given a chance if his form next year is good.
Jordan is a Test winger at best.
Super Rugby 2024
Tackle %
81% Stevenson
70% LoveTackle Per 80 Minutes
2.49 Stevenson
2.44 LoveTurnovers won per 80 Minutes
0.45 Stevenson
0 Love -
@antipodean I don't think Jordan is the second coming a lot make him out to be, but he gets a pass mark this tour.
I love the counter attacking initiative against France, but he's not actually that good at it. I bet we would have seen more returns from high balls against France than counter attacking due to the new laws. Mind you, the ref was hopelessly out of depth.
I don't think selection is ruthless enough in the current squad. I remember when J. Savea showed up a little overweight to camp (at least that's what they said, he looked fine to me?) and was dropped, he was 26 and still had an unreal strike rate. We're seeing below par performances week in and week out from some of these blokes and nothing. Is Razor cutthroat enough?
@Halfback said in All Blacks v France:
Is Razor cutthroat enough?
Not if they've played for the Crusaders.
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@Halfback said in All Blacks v France:
Is Razor cutthroat enough?
Not if they've played for the Crusaders.
@antipodean I'm a Cantabrian and this resonates with even me. As I said earlier, what business does Havilli even have being in the squad? He played a handful of super rugby games this year, and in them he was a liability cough Waratahs game. Then he got injured and walks into the All Blacks. Might be one of the worst All Blacks I've seen.
That jersey could and should be filled by Love or Narawa
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@Jet said in All Blacks v France:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v France:
Congrats to France.
Thought that was a cracking match as a fan, aside from the result.
The NH seem intent on over officiating rugby into the ground. Well, except of course for dummy runners taking out players. There was one play where dummy runners came through and connected with both ALB and Rieko and nothing.
I don't want to raise the hackles of the Cantabs and @Chris-B but I think @Bones is right, Jordan isn't the right fit at fullback. Maybe a finishing wing is his ceiling? Especially if he want so keep up his strike rate.
Also, Reece is out of form and in a year when Telea has copped shit over his speed then how are we picking a guy who makes a tugboat look fast. Posters on here have a meltdown if DMac even steps slightly across field yet Reece runs sideways constantly putting added pressure on our team frequently.
And not to leaves the Canes fluffers out, actually Moana now, are we happy with the not as good version of Savea we have now? Maybe a decent off season will get him back to his usual form. Conversely Roigard is actually living up to the hype of his Canes marketing team. Also Lakai put in a decent shift.
I think we overdid the successful sideline play that worked so well in the early stages of the game. There were times when there was space out wide yet we just kept turning it back inside. TBH, I think this is a NZ thing as I often notice our Super teams do it as well.
Weird that I'm not as upset as I should be with this loss.
I can understand the reservations about Jordan, but im not having Beaudy back there either.
Fuck that carry on. Give me Jordan any day.
To be fair to Will he got mullered a few times but never shied away from taking it into contact.
That's the standard now is it? Fucking hell. He makes poor decisions and his defence is average.
I'm no Canes fluffer, but I want to see Love given a chance if his form next year is good.
Jordan is a Test winger at best.
Super Rugby 2024
Tackle %
81% Stevenson
70% LoveTackle Per 80 Minutes
2.49 Stevenson
2.44 LoveTurnovers won per 80 Minutes
0.45 Stevenson
0 Love@brodean said in All Blacks v France:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@Jet said in All Blacks v France:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v France:
Congrats to France.
Thought that was a cracking match as a fan, aside from the result.
The NH seem intent on over officiating rugby into the ground. Well, except of course for dummy runners taking out players. There was one play where dummy runners came through and connected with both ALB and Rieko and nothing.
I don't want to raise the hackles of the Cantabs and @Chris-B but I think @Bones is right, Jordan isn't the right fit at fullback. Maybe a finishing wing is his ceiling? Especially if he want so keep up his strike rate.
Also, Reece is out of form and in a year when Telea has copped shit over his speed then how are we picking a guy who makes a tugboat look fast. Posters on here have a meltdown if DMac even steps slightly across field yet Reece runs sideways constantly putting added pressure on our team frequently.
And not to leaves the Canes fluffers out, actually Moana now, are we happy with the not as good version of Savea we have now? Maybe a decent off season will get him back to his usual form. Conversely Roigard is actually living up to the hype of his Canes marketing team. Also Lakai put in a decent shift.
I think we overdid the successful sideline play that worked so well in the early stages of the game. There were times when there was space out wide yet we just kept turning it back inside. TBH, I think this is a NZ thing as I often notice our Super teams do it as well.
Weird that I'm not as upset as I should be with this loss.
I can understand the reservations about Jordan, but im not having Beaudy back there either.
Fuck that carry on. Give me Jordan any day.
To be fair to Will he got mullered a few times but never shied away from taking it into contact.
That's the standard now is it? Fucking hell. He makes poor decisions and his defence is average.
I'm no Canes fluffer, but I want to see Love given a chance if his form next year is good.
Jordan is a Test winger at best.
Super Rugby 2024
Tackle %
81% Stevenson
70% LoveTackle Per 80 Minutes
2.49 Stevenson
2.44 LoveTurnovers won per 80 Minutes
0.45 Stevenson
0 LoveYeah I don't get the dismissal of Stevenson on defence alone. He's got a great boot, actually looks to link and put his support players in a better position, plus has a fantastic combination with DMac. We don't know if he'd be as devastating on attack but fuck can we at least try and find out? I'd happily deal with defence almost as shit as Jordan's if he's actually doing more for the team everywhere else.
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@brodean said in All Blacks v France:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@Jet said in All Blacks v France:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v France:
Congrats to France.
Thought that was a cracking match as a fan, aside from the result.
The NH seem intent on over officiating rugby into the ground. Well, except of course for dummy runners taking out players. There was one play where dummy runners came through and connected with both ALB and Rieko and nothing.
I don't want to raise the hackles of the Cantabs and @Chris-B but I think @Bones is right, Jordan isn't the right fit at fullback. Maybe a finishing wing is his ceiling? Especially if he want so keep up his strike rate.
Also, Reece is out of form and in a year when Telea has copped shit over his speed then how are we picking a guy who makes a tugboat look fast. Posters on here have a meltdown if DMac even steps slightly across field yet Reece runs sideways constantly putting added pressure on our team frequently.
And not to leaves the Canes fluffers out, actually Moana now, are we happy with the not as good version of Savea we have now? Maybe a decent off season will get him back to his usual form. Conversely Roigard is actually living up to the hype of his Canes marketing team. Also Lakai put in a decent shift.
I think we overdid the successful sideline play that worked so well in the early stages of the game. There were times when there was space out wide yet we just kept turning it back inside. TBH, I think this is a NZ thing as I often notice our Super teams do it as well.
Weird that I'm not as upset as I should be with this loss.
I can understand the reservations about Jordan, but im not having Beaudy back there either.
Fuck that carry on. Give me Jordan any day.
To be fair to Will he got mullered a few times but never shied away from taking it into contact.
That's the standard now is it? Fucking hell. He makes poor decisions and his defence is average.
I'm no Canes fluffer, but I want to see Love given a chance if his form next year is good.
Jordan is a Test winger at best.
Super Rugby 2024
Tackle %
81% Stevenson
70% LoveTackle Per 80 Minutes
2.49 Stevenson
2.44 LoveTurnovers won per 80 Minutes
0.45 Stevenson
0 LoveYeah I don't get the dismissal of Stevenson on defence alone. He's got a great boot, actually looks to link and put his support players in a better position, plus has a fantastic combination with DMac. We don't know if he'd be as devastating on attack but fuck can we at least try and find out? I'd happily deal with defence almost as shit as Jordan's if he's actually doing more for the team everywhere else.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France:
Increasingly noticeable for me how 10 and 15 aren't prepared in Super rugby in certain areas for the international level, such as kicking.
How was Beaudens super form? Even if he were learning those skills at international level he has enough caps to have nailed them.
McKenzie kicks often and long for the Chiefs, with Stevenson doing the same.Why are you mentioning Stevenson? Merhtens looks like Collins compared to Stevenson. In an era of "both sides of the ball" he's absent half the time.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France:
Increasingly noticeable for me how 10 and 15 aren't prepared in Super rugby in certain areas for the international level, such as kicking.
How was Beaudens super form? Even if he were learning those skills at international level he has enough caps to have nailed them.
McKenzie kicks often and long for the Chiefs, with Stevenson doing the same.Why are you mentioning Stevenson? Merhtens looks like Collins compared to Stevenson. In an era of "both sides of the ball" he's absent half the time.
Because it was a reply to a post about super rugby 10s and 15s kicking.
Why are you talking about both sides of the ball when kicking it means having it? -
and I quite liked Sullivan but haven't seen much of him over the last season
