Italy v All Blacks
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@reprobate said in New Zealand v Italy:
@Jailbreak7 said in New Zealand v Italy:
Looks like they'll give TJ and Cane some time, farewell match and all that.
Ugh. Cane had his farewell, a win away against Ireland. Ratima and Roigard both have things to work on.
It is wasteful to take valuable minutes away from players of the present and future who need them in favour of a farewell bow for a less able older player. TJP got his farewell in front of home fans earlier in the year. Cane as you say got to leave triumphant after Dublin. Move aside and play the young bucks who have shown they already belong. Razor will probably do exactly the opposite of what I'd like to see, which is to play Aumua, DMac, Cam and Ratima, and Lakai
@canefan said in New Zealand v Italy:
a less able older player.
this is starting to annoy me. If Cane was playing we likely win that game last week, as he would have at least been able to stop French forwards at the gain line. Yes, the speed has gone from his legs, but his experience and his defence and his ruck work is far superior to every other loose forward we have available.
The thing is, none of those things will matter this weekend because Italy are shit, so we could play TJP at openside and it won't make a lick of difference
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@canefan said in New Zealand v Italy:
@Canes4life said in New Zealand v Italy:
@canefan said in New Zealand v Italy:
@Landers92 said in New Zealand v Italy:
@Bovidae said in New Zealand v Italy:
Back to their preferred loose forward trio. Reece doesn't deserve to start.
Or be in the 23 for that matter.
I'd play Clarke, Love, and Jordan. But I don't expect Razor to do that either. Just a lack of imagination
He'll likely play Reece again.
yup. I rewatched the intercept try. Reece was disgracefully slow, something is wrong with him, or he's out of gas
Clearly fatigued - the only thing that makes sense is to go back to a specialist winger - maybe even two of them - on the bench.
@reprobate said in New Zealand v Italy:
@canefan said in New Zealand v Italy:
@Canes4life said in New Zealand v Italy:
@canefan said in New Zealand v Italy:
@Landers92 said in New Zealand v Italy:
@Bovidae said in New Zealand v Italy:
Back to their preferred loose forward trio. Reece doesn't deserve to start.
Or be in the 23 for that matter.
I'd play Clarke, Love, and Jordan. But I don't expect Razor to do that either. Just a lack of imagination
He'll likely play Reece again.
yup. I rewatched the intercept try. Reece was disgracefully slow, something is wrong with him, or he's out of gas
Clearly fatigued - the only thing that makes sense is to go back to a specialist winger - maybe even two of them - on the bench.
Fatigued? Hes had plenty of time to rest since the Japan game.
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https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=all+blacks+vs+italy+2023+score&mid=82C35E573131D535A95B82C35E573131D535A95B&FORM=VIRE
Last time we played Italy we put on a 14 try demolition. Probably a bit closer this year.@SBW1 said in New Zealand v Italy:
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=all+blacks+vs+italy+2023+score&mid=82C35E573131D535A95B82C35E573131D535A95B&FORM=VIRE
Last time we played Italy we put on a 14 try demolition. Probably a bit closer this year.considering that over the past two weekends they beat Georgia by 3 and Argentina put 50 past them i think it is far more likely that we run riot.
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@canefan said in New Zealand v Italy:
a less able older player.
this is starting to annoy me. If Cane was playing we likely win that game last week, as he would have at least been able to stop French forwards at the gain line. Yes, the speed has gone from his legs, but his experience and his defence and his ruck work is far superior to every other loose forward we have available.
The thing is, none of those things will matter this weekend because Italy are shit, so we could play TJP at openside and it won't make a lick of difference
@mariner4life said in New Zealand v Italy:
@canefan said in New Zealand v Italy:
a less able older player.
this is starting to annoy me. If Cane was playing we likely win that game last week, as he would have at least been able to stop French forwards at the gain line. Yes, the speed has gone from his legs, but his experience and his defence and his ruck work is far superior to every other loose forward we have available.
The thing is, none of those things will matter this weekend because Italy are shit, so we could play TJP at openside and it won't make a lick of difference
Let's compare apples with apples. If Cane had started vs France I'd have no issue, as he's played great and we wanted a win against a top opponent. Playing against Italy on the other hand seems like a wasted opportunity to blood these young guys
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so against France he is not a less able player? just Italy. gotcha.
Look, i am as excited by Lakai as even you crazy Canes fans who think all your players should be starting ABs. And i am more than happy for him to play this week, because as i said, defence and ruck work won't matter anywhere near as much as speed and link play. But there is no need to shit on Sam Cane and his legacy in your urge to rush through your shiny new bauble.
That French game rammed home the fact that, while all athletic exciting players, a Sititi, Savea and Lakai loose forward trio is not yet ready for real test rugby.
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so against France he is not a less able player? just Italy. gotcha.
Look, i am as excited by Lakai as even you crazy Canes fans who think all your players should be starting ABs. And i am more than happy for him to play this week, because as i said, defence and ruck work won't matter anywhere near as much as speed and link play. But there is no need to shit on Sam Cane and his legacy in your urge to rush through your shiny new bauble.
That French game rammed home the fact that, while all athletic exciting players, a Sititi, Savea and Lakai loose forward trio is not yet ready for real test rugby.
@mariner4life said in New Zealand v Italy:
so against France he is not a less able player? just Italy. gotcha.
Look, i am as excited by Lakai as even you crazy Canes fans who think all your players should be starting ABs. And i am more than happy for him to play this week, because as i said, defence and ruck work won't matter anywhere near as much as speed and link play. But there is no need to shit on Sam Cane and his legacy in your urge to rush through your shiny new bauble.
That French game rammed home the fact that, while all athletic exciting players, a Sititi, Savea and Lakai loose forward trio is not yet ready for real test rugby.
TJP is less able, and older...
.I have not taken any dumps on Cane anytime of late, he's had an excellent year capped off by the Ireland win. If he was available for France I'd play him too. In fact, I wasn't even referring to the France game, I was talking about wasting caps on a game against Italy. Must be a slow day where you are to get triggered like this
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@reprobate said in New Zealand v Italy:
@Jailbreak7 said in New Zealand v Italy:
Looks like they'll give TJ and Cane some time, farewell match and all that.
Ugh. Cane had his farewell, a win away against Ireland. Ratima and Roigard both have things to work on.
It is wasteful to take valuable minutes away from players of the present and future who need them in favour of a farewell bow for a less able older player. TJP got his farewell in front of home fans earlier in the year. Cane as you say got to leave triumphant after Dublin. Move aside and play the young bucks who have shown they already belong. Razor will probably do exactly the opposite of what I'd like to see, which is to play Aumua, DMac, Cam and Ratima, and Lakai
@canefan said in New Zealand v Italy:
@reprobate said in New Zealand v Italy:
@Jailbreak7 said in New Zealand v Italy:
Looks like they'll give TJ and Cane some time, farewell match and all that.
Ugh. Cane had his farewell, a win away against Ireland. Ratima and Roigard both have things to work on.
It is wasteful to take valuable minutes away from players of the present and future who need them in favour of a farewell bow for a less able older player. TJP got his farewell in front of home fans earlier in the year. Cane as you say got to leave triumphant after Dublin. Move aside and play the young bucks who have shown they already belong. Razor will probably do exactly the opposite of what I'd like to see, which is to play Aumua, DMac, Cam and Ratima, and Lakai
Here is what I said. I did not refer to the French game, we are in the ABs vs Italy thread so I didn't think I had to spell out that we were talking about ABs vs Italy. Capiche?
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who is Sam Cane less able than?
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dude, they are your words in your post. i am simply asking you to clarify what you mean. Sam Cane is the best openside in the country right now, and caps are not "wasted" on him. And for all they hype, he is not less able than Lakai, he is far more able.
Now, if you are talking about TJP, who is very lucky to be considered in the top 3 halfbacks in teh country, let alone the top 2, then it is a different conversation. However your post doesn't make that distinction.
(you're not the only one to have a pop at Cane either, but yours was the final straw)
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If I change one sentence to "less able OR older player" will you turn off the pedant meter?
@canefan said in New Zealand v Italy:
If I change one sentence to "less able OR older player" will you turn off the pedant meter?
yes
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@canefan said in New Zealand v Italy:
If I change one sentence to "less able OR older player" will you turn off the pedant meter?
yes
@mariner4life said in New Zealand v Italy:
@canefan said in New Zealand v Italy:
If I change one sentence to "less able OR older player" will you turn off the pedant meter?
yes
Hooray
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re: Selection, i would like to see the top team roll out again and just brutalise Italy so everyone goes in to Summer feeling pretty good.
A disjointed muddle that results in an easy scoreboard but ugly win full of tackle bag holders would not satisfy me.
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re: Selection, i would like to see the top team roll out again and just brutalise Italy so everyone goes in to Summer feeling pretty good.
A disjointed muddle that results in an easy scoreboard but ugly win full of tackle bag holders would not satisfy me.
@mariner4life said in New Zealand v Italy:
re: Selection, i would like to see the top team roll out again and just brutalise Italy so everyone goes in to Summer feeling pretty good.
A disjointed muddle that results in an easy scoreboard but ugly win full of tackle bag holders would not satisfy me.
I half agree. A few young guns mixed in with most of the main team would suit me. I don't want to see a repeat of Fozzie in Dunedin again, that does not one any good
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@mariner4life said in New Zealand v Italy:
re: Selection, i would like to see the top team roll out again and just brutalise Italy so everyone goes in to Summer feeling pretty good.
A disjointed muddle that results in an easy scoreboard but ugly win full of tackle bag holders would not satisfy me.
I half agree. A few young guns mixed in with most of the main team would suit me. I don't want to see a repeat of Fozzie in Dunedin again, that does not one any good
@canefan said in New Zealand v Italy:
@mariner4life said in New Zealand v Italy:
re: Selection, i would like to see the top team roll out again and just brutalise Italy so everyone goes in to Summer feeling pretty good.
A disjointed muddle that results in an easy scoreboard but ugly win full of tackle bag holders would not satisfy me.
I half agree. A few noobs mixed in with most of the main team would suit me. I don't want to see a repeat of Fozzie in Dunedin again, that does not one any good
are their any realistic noobs to put in? the NZ A guys that came over don't strike me as realistic prospects except Holland.
Pretty much the only newbie i would like to see (who is there) is a new 12, as i am sadly resigned to the fact that ALB might be cooked (or reached that point in his career where he starts or doesn't play).
Maybe an outside back i guess. Love to 15 so Jordan can play wing, or a new wing who has actual wheels.Other than that it's wasting caps on guys who are miles down the ladder.
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re: Selection, i would like to see the top team roll out again and just brutalise Italy so everyone goes in to Summer feeling pretty good.
A disjointed muddle that results in an easy scoreboard but ugly win full of tackle bag holders would not satisfy me.
@mariner4life my issue with the 'top team' is there is a glaring issue in the 23 jersey. In fact the only player in that spot who has added value this season was Love when he came on vs Japan and scored 2 tries.
I know they need certain cover but there's a real opportunity to look at adding more punch from the bench in the form of Love, Lam etc.
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@Number-10 said in New Zealand v Italy:
They could’ve at least timed it for 11:59pm NZT on THURSDAY 21 Nov
