Italy v All Blacks
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@mariner4life my issue with the 'top team' is there is a glaring issue in the 23 jersey. In fact the only player in that spot who has added value this season was Love when he came on vs Japan and scored 2 tries.
I know they need certain cover but there's a real opportunity to look at adding more punch from the bench in the form of Love, Lam etc.
@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:
@mariner4life my issue with the 'top team' is there is a glaring issue in the 23 jersey. In fact the only player in that spot who has added value this season was Love when he came on vs Japan and scored 2 tries.
I know they need certain cover but there's a real opportunity to look at adding more punch from the bench in the form of Love, Lam etc.
Generally speaking midfielders and wingers, just don't impact a game as much, unless the guy playing there is having a bad game... and if the guy is doing his job well, then he should probably stay out there.
15 can impact the game from broken play far more, and obviously 9 and 10 are pivotal... I think this is part of the reason for a shift to the 6-2 split... a second fresh loose forward can impact the game way more than a sub winger who might only touch the ball four teams, and only one of those may actually be in any space to do something.
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just a question re Cane at 7...whats the aim? he's the best 7 so we want to play him to win?....is there much chance we lose without him? i dont think he alone is standing between us and a win...so its really about giving him one last game? i'd rather someone else got some experience there, games like Italy are one of the few chances people get to bridge the gap between super rugby and big internationals (ie still an international, you get to work on combinations with other AB's....not a long way off SA in SA)
@Kiwiwomble said in Italy v All Blacks:
just a question re Cane at 7...whats the aim? he's the best 7 so we want to play him to win?....is there much chance we lose without him? i dont think he alone is standing between us and a win...so its really about giving him one last game? i'd rather someone else got some experience there, games like Italy are one of the few chances people get to bridge the gap between super rugby and big internationals (ie still an international, you get to work on combinations with other AB's....not a long way off SA in SA)
Easy as fans to take the human element out of it. Cane has given loads to the jersey, so would be cruel not to give him a proper send-off. I don't feel the same way about TJ, but can be certain the coaches and most of his teammates do, so likewise, if taken on tour, would be nuts not to give him a final game.
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im not going to die on the hill as cant argue and wont argue with everything he's given to the jersey....but i also think no one person is bigger then the jersey and so dont buy into the idea anyone deserves "one more game", they get their caps at 100 and can have all the off field accolades they like...but the opportunity to build for the future should trump all, if we get to next season and there is chat about the jump from super rugby to playing whom ever is touring in June being too much it will be annoying
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@Kiwiwomble said in Italy v All Blacks:
just a question re Cane at 7...whats the aim? he's the best 7 so we want to play him to win?....is there much chance we lose without him? i dont think he alone is standing between us and a win...so its really about giving him one last game? i'd rather someone else got some experience there, games like Italy are one of the few chances people get to bridge the gap between super rugby and big internationals (ie still an international, you get to work on combinations with other AB's....not a long way off SA in SA)
Easy as fans to take the human element out of it. Cane has given loads to the jersey, so would be cruel not to give him a proper send-off. I don't feel the same way about TJ, but can be certain the coaches and most of his teammates do, so likewise, if taken on tour, would be nuts not to give him a final game.
@frugby said in Italy v All Blacks:
@Kiwiwomble said in Italy v All Blacks:
just a question re Cane at 7...whats the aim? he's the best 7 so we want to play him to win?....is there much chance we lose without him? i dont think he alone is standing between us and a win...so its really about giving him one last game? i'd rather someone else got some experience there, games like Italy are one of the few chances people get to bridge the gap between super rugby and big internationals (ie still an international, you get to work on combinations with other AB's....not a long way off SA in SA)
Easy as fans to take the human element out of it. Cane has given loads to the jersey, so would be cruel not to give him a proper send-off. I don't feel the same way about TJ, but can be certain the coaches and most of his teammates do, so likewise, if taken on tour, would be nuts not to give him a final game.
I was about to post something similar. I think it's reasonable to give him a farewell, to allow him to lead the ABs out one last time and all that jazz. He is an ex AB captain that has sacrificed and risked a fair bit over the years, why not say thanks and farewell? We have time.
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@frugby said in Italy v All Blacks:
@Kiwiwomble said in Italy v All Blacks:
just a question re Cane at 7...whats the aim? he's the best 7 so we want to play him to win?....is there much chance we lose without him? i dont think he alone is standing between us and a win...so its really about giving him one last game? i'd rather someone else got some experience there, games like Italy are one of the few chances people get to bridge the gap between super rugby and big internationals (ie still an international, you get to work on combinations with other AB's....not a long way off SA in SA)
Easy as fans to take the human element out of it. Cane has given loads to the jersey, so would be cruel not to give him a proper send-off. I don't feel the same way about TJ, but can be certain the coaches and most of his teammates do, so likewise, if taken on tour, would be nuts not to give him a final game.
I was about to post something similar. I think it's reasonable to give him a farewell, to allow him to lead the ABs out one last time and all that jazz. He is an ex AB captain that has sacrificed and risked a fair bit over the years, why not say thanks and farewell? We have time.
@Crazy-Horse said in Italy v All Blacks:
@frugby said in Italy v All Blacks:
@Kiwiwomble said in Italy v All Blacks:
just a question re Cane at 7...whats the aim? he's the best 7 so we want to play him to win?....is there much chance we lose without him? i dont think he alone is standing between us and a win...so its really about giving him one last game? i'd rather someone else got some experience there, games like Italy are one of the few chances people get to bridge the gap between super rugby and big internationals (ie still an international, you get to work on combinations with other AB's....not a long way off SA in SA)
Easy as fans to take the human element out of it. Cane has given loads to the jersey, so would be cruel not to give him a proper send-off. I don't feel the same way about TJ, but can be certain the coaches and most of his teammates do, so likewise, if taken on tour, would be nuts not to give him a final game.
I was about to post something similar. I think it's reasonable to give him a farewell, to allow him to lead the ABs out one last time and all that jazz. He is an ex AB captain that has sacrificed and risked a fair bit over the years, why not say thanks and farewell? We have time.
We've found out that Lakai has ability at this level and we now have: Lakai, Paps, Blackadder, and Savea (if necessary) who can play in 7. It's a not a problemative position, so running out Cane isn't an issue for this test.
He may not be Richie McCaw god-like, but he is a proper AB great, and he was a
fluffybunny hairmissed kick away from being a WC winning captain. I'd like to see him in black one more time. -
Someone just posted this team in the Stuff comments (yes I know it's not reliable) but it's interesting.
AB team: Love, Tele'a, Lam, ALB, Clarke, Perofeta, Perenara, Sititi, Cane, Lakai, Holland, Tuipolotu (c), Tosi, Taylor EDG.
Subs: Williams, Aumua, Ofa, S Barrett, Savea, Roigard, B Barrett, Reiko
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Someone just posted this team in the Stuff comments (yes I know it's not reliable) but it's interesting.
AB team: Love, Tele'a, Lam, ALB, Clarke, Perofeta, Perenara, Sititi, Cane, Lakai, Holland, Tuipolotu (c), Tosi, Taylor EDG.
Subs: Williams, Aumua, Ofa, S Barrett, Savea, Roigard, B Barrett, Reiko
@Canes4life said in Italy v All Blacks:
Someone just posted this team in the Stuff comments (yes I know it's not reliable) but it's interesting.
AB team: Love, Tele'a, Lam, ALB, Clarke, Perofeta, Perenara, Sititi, Cane, Lakai, Holland, Tuipolotu (c), Tosi, Taylor EDG.
Subs: Williams, Aumua, Ofa, S Barrett, Savea, Roigard, B Barrett, Reiko
FFS - I know that Jordan isn't much chop at fullback, but replacing him with the Groot?
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@Canes4life said in Italy v All Blacks:
Someone just posted this team in the Stuff comments (yes I know it's not reliable) but it's interesting.
AB team: Love, Tele'a, Lam, ALB, Clarke, Perofeta, Perenara, Sititi, Cane, Lakai, Holland, Tuipolotu (c), Tosi, Taylor EDG.
Subs: Williams, Aumua, Ofa, S Barrett, Savea, Roigard, B Barrett, Reiko
FFS - I know that Jordan isn't much chop at fullback, but replacing him with the Groot?
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Hey team, sorry again for not getting team/backline naming yet again. Proving to be quite difficult this tour, tight lipped and time difference.
What I can say though(I’ve been told) is that there are going to be some player/players who have gone on this tour that aren’t going to get a game, not including the Japan test. Pretty disappointing if that proves to be true. This tour should be used to get as much info on these new guys where possible and should be playing in these kinds of tests in my opinion.
Thats all I’ve got this week! Let’s see what happens at team naming.
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Players I can think of that haven’t played against England, Ireland or France below.
Lio-Willie
Lord
Newell
EDG
Love
Havili
TJPInteresting to see who of the above doesn’t play if that’s true.
@Landers92 said in Italy v All Blacks:
Players I can think of that haven’t played again England, Ireland or France below.
Lio-Willie
Lord
Newell
EDG
Love
Havili
TJPInteresting to see who of the above doesn’t play if that’s true.
50/50
But yeah, there's 3 who have a much better chance.
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Hey team, sorry again for not getting team/backline naming yet again. Proving to be quite difficult this tour, tight lipped and time difference.
What I can say though(I’ve been told) is that there are going to be some player/players who have gone on this tour that aren’t going to get a game, not including the Japan test. Pretty disappointing if that proves to be true. This tour should be used to get as much info on these new guys where possible and should be playing in these kinds of tests in my opinion.
Thats all I’ve got this week! Let’s see what happens at team naming.
@Landers92 said in Italy v All Blacks:
Hey team, sorry again for not getting team/backline naming yet again. Proving to be quite difficult this tour, tight lipped and time difference.
What I can say though(I’ve been told) is that there are going to be some player/players who have gone on this tour that aren’t going to get a game, not including the Japan test. Pretty disappointing if that proves to be true. This tour should be used to get as much info on these new guys where possible and playing in these kinds of tests in my opinion.
Razor has proven to be more cowardly than Foster ever was....
Overly conservative with his paranoid 'win-now' selection mentality after we lost 1st Puma's test.... We're 4 years away from the next World Cup you ding dong....
Disrespectfully hands guys like Plummer 2 minutes off the bench, refuses to have confidence in his wider squad...... at all.
If he had any balls Clarke would've played the June series, Love would've gotten far more chances instead of Reece, etc...
Sititi and Lakai would've been fixed in the 23 much earlier (instead of only getting their initial opportunities due to injuries to others). I would rate the season 5.5/10.
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@Landers92 said in Italy v All Blacks:
Hey team, sorry again for not getting team/backline naming yet again. Proving to be quite difficult this tour, tight lipped and time difference.
What I can say though(I’ve been told) is that there are going to be some player/players who have gone on this tour that aren’t going to get a game, not including the Japan test. Pretty disappointing if that proves to be true. This tour should be used to get as much info on these new guys where possible and playing in these kinds of tests in my opinion.
Razor has proven to be more cowardly than Foster ever was....
Overly conservative with his paranoid 'win-now' selection mentality after we lost 1st Puma's test.... We're 4 years away from the next World Cup you ding dong....
Disrespectfully hands guys like Plummer 2 minutes off the bench, refuses to have confidence in his wider squad...... at all.
If he had any balls Clarke would've played the June series, Love would've gotten far more chances instead of Reece, etc...
Sititi and Lakai would've been fixed in the 23 much earlier (instead of only getting their initial opportunities due to injuries to others). I would rate the season 5.5/10.
@darylmitchell I'd give them a B-, so about the same
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@Landers92 said in Italy v All Blacks:
Hey team, sorry again for not getting team/backline naming yet again. Proving to be quite difficult this tour, tight lipped and time difference.
What I can say though(I’ve been told) is that there are going to be some player/players who have gone on this tour that aren’t going to get a game, not including the Japan test. Pretty disappointing if that proves to be true. This tour should be used to get as much info on these new guys where possible and playing in these kinds of tests in my opinion.
Razor has proven to be more cowardly than Foster ever was....
Overly conservative with his paranoid 'win-now' selection mentality after we lost 1st Puma's test.... We're 4 years away from the next World Cup you ding dong....
Disrespectfully hands guys like Plummer 2 minutes off the bench, refuses to have confidence in his wider squad...... at all.
If he had any balls Clarke would've played the June series, Love would've gotten far more chances instead of Reece, etc...
Sititi and Lakai would've been fixed in the 23 much earlier (instead of only getting their initial opportunities due to injuries to others). I would rate the season 5.5/10.
@darylmitchell it feels remarkably similar to foster to me. Except Razor got handed a front row and then somehow managed to send various veterans form into a nosedive...
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@BerniesCorner said in Italy v All Blacks:
@brodean said in Italy v All Blacks:
None of those teams played as well as France. None of them have the same ceiling.
I'm still frustrated with the French result. We had it.
DMac first five, Love at 15, Jordan and Clarke on the wings. Our attack certainly would've been different with those players.
Anyway it's doneNot that I think he was playing a stormer, watching a replay, when we lost Jordie the French backline defence did change. For whatever reason we had a bit more space to work with when he was on. These are small margins but that’s often the difference with these sort of matches. We looked sped up rather than playing more methodical.
@ACT-Crusader said in Italy v All Blacks:
@BerniesCorner said in Italy v All Blacks:
@brodean said in Italy v All Blacks:
None of those teams played as well as France. None of them have the same ceiling.
I'm still frustrated with the French result. We had it.
DMac first five, Love at 15, Jordan and Clarke on the wings. Our attack certainly would've been different with those players.
Anyway it's doneNot that I think he was playing a stormer, watching a replay, when we lost Jordie the French backline defence did change. For whatever reason we had a bit more space to work with when he was on. These are small margins but that’s often the difference with these sort of matches. We looked sped up rather than playing more methodical.
We got fatigued and didn't being our forward replacements on early enough
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Someone just posted this team in the Stuff comments (yes I know it's not reliable) but it's interesting.
AB team: Love, Tele'a, Lam, ALB, Clarke, Perofeta, Perenara, Sititi, Cane, Lakai, Holland, Tuipolotu (c), Tosi, Taylor EDG.
Subs: Williams, Aumua, Ofa, S Barrett, Savea, Roigard, B Barrett, Reiko
@Canes4life said in Italy v All Blacks:
Someone just posted this team in the Stuff comments (yes I know it's not reliable) but it's interesting.
AB team: Love, Tele'a, Lam, ALB, Clarke, Perofeta, Perenara, Sititi, Cane, Lakai, Holland, Tuipolotu (c), Tosi, Taylor EDG.
Subs: Williams, Aumua, Ofa, S Barrett, Savea, Roigard, B Barrett, Reiko
I don't see it happening. If they're giving Perofeta a start at 10 at least give him Roigard at 9.
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@Canes4life said in Italy v All Blacks:
Someone just posted this team in the Stuff comments (yes I know it's not reliable) but it's interesting.
AB team: Love, Tele'a, Lam, ALB, Clarke, Perofeta, Perenara, Sititi, Cane, Lakai, Holland, Tuipolotu (c), Tosi, Taylor EDG.
Subs: Williams, Aumua, Ofa, S Barrett, Savea, Roigard, B Barrett, Reiko
I don't see it happening. If they're giving Perofeta a start at 10 at least give him Roigard at 9.
@brodean said in Italy v All Blacks:
@Canes4life said in Italy v All Blacks:
Someone just posted this team in the Stuff comments (yes I know it's not reliable) but it's interesting.
AB team: Love, Tele'a, Lam, ALB, Clarke, Perofeta, Perenara, Sititi, Cane, Lakai, Holland, Tuipolotu (c), Tosi, Taylor EDG.
Subs: Williams, Aumua, Ofa, S Barrett, Savea, Roigard, B Barrett, Reiko
I don't see it happening. If they're giving Perofeta a start at 10 at least give him Roigard at 9.
Interesting - that's what would make it more believable for me. Throw in a guy to give him an opportunity but make sure it's in a thrown together combination so you come out looking like you made the right decision all along.
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@canefan said in New Zealand v Italy:
@KiwiMurph said in New Zealand v Italy:
Give some new players a run for the love of god
Plummer, Love Lakai, Holland should all get some minutes. In the case of those not named Peter Lakai, it should be their first real opportunity to show what they are made of. But I won't be surprised if Razor starts a similar side
Would personally mix it up a but.
Couple of head knocks open up a couple of opportunities:
- Lakai in for Finau. Need AN Other on the bench, what loosies are still in the squad? How's Sammie's noggin? Deserves a send off.
- I'm guessing probably Havili (to bench) for JB. Not my preference but he was an original squaddie.
Other RANDOM guesses:
EDG to start if he's paid suitable penamce
Bell to bench, Aumua to start
Maybe start PT with Vaa’i (SB big workload). Lord to bench.Halfbacks as is. Sorry TJ
10/15 DMac, Love
Back three:
Clarke and two others ...- Telea (how is his body?)
- Jordan
- Barrett/Love
@booboo said in Italy v All Blacks:
I'm guessing probably Havili (to bench) for JB. Not my preference but he was an original squaddie.
A perfect summary of this season's selection strategy.
