Italy v All Blacks
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Finally got around to watching this, and haven't read the thread yet.
B Barrett is hard to watch. Roigard's decision making and execution poor also. Scrum good. Sloppy lineouts. We make good progress whenever we pick and go... And the Scott Barrett card we've all been waiting for. Our scrum was worse, and lineout was better with S Barrett off.
Ball security and structure a mess. Still kicking the ball away. A few breaks but support play is a mess. Cards a lottery. Our passing and catching is really mediocre, dropped balls and passes to ground in just about every movement.
De groot was busy and showed he still has value, Lomax good as usual. Scrum dominant. That's about it, it was shit. -
my gut feeling is scooter plays in instinct, charges round....and get cards...but when not thinking he makes yards etc...making him captain is asking him to think...which i think is going to diminish his game
@Kiwiwomble he was/is a pretty good when he captains the crusaders, but maybe international captaincy aint for him.
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@Kiwiwomble he was/is a pretty good when he captains the crusaders, but maybe international captaincy aint for him.
@taniwharugby making decisions with 12k blues/canes/chiefs (highlanders wouldnt get 12k) fans scattered around a NZ ground slightly different to 80k fench/english/south african fans screaming at you
edit:....also, is that the same crusaders that missed out on playoffs
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@Kiwiwomble he was/is a pretty good when he captains the crusaders, but maybe international captaincy aint for him.
@taniwharugby said in Italy v All Blacks:
@Kiwiwomble he was/is a pretty good when he captains the crusaders, but maybe international captaincy aint for him.
Perhaps the opposition isn't to the same level..?
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@LatsToTheMax said in Italy v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:
@Nepia watched the first half, and Rieko always gets the ball and the tackler. The same can be said for most of our backline passing. We are obsessed with tight pop passing to cut through the line. It's rarely pretty or effective. One guy who consistently seems to run nice lines and gets space is Will Jordan
100%. I think Goldie mentioned this which is why he keeps dropping the ball. In the second half the move started working leaving a giant whole between 13 and 14 only for us to f@ck it in the @rse with the link play.
Our backs really seem to play narrow to start with, very compressed making it hard to get to the flanks.
And way too flat
@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:
@LatsToTheMax said in Italy v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:
@Nepia watched the first half, and Rieko always gets the ball and the tackler. The same can be said for most of our backline passing. We are obsessed with tight pop passing to cut through the line. It's rarely pretty or effective. One guy who consistently seems to run nice lines and gets space is Will Jordan
100%. I think Goldie mentioned this which is why he keeps dropping the ball. In the second half the move started working leaving a giant whole between 13 and 14 only for us to f@ck it in the @rse with the link play.
Our backs really seem to play narrow to start with, very compressed making it hard to get to the flanks.
And way too flat
Yeah this is evident watching even the Wallabies play. The defence gets in our faces a whole lot more.
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@Jailbreak7 said in Italy v All Blacks:
Well. A little more calm this morning. But. So many work ons. And it does feel like we've regressed since the WC. TBF the forwards went pretty well this tour. But. The backs. And the attack plan / game management for the most part was non-existent. I could not see for the life of me what they were trying to achieve last night. When they were just hammering away at the Italian line but constantly over running or shelling the last pass, it looked pretty clueless and rudderless out there. No-one seemed willing to step up and take responsibility to seize the game by the scruff. Headless chickens. Leadership group? Where the fuck were they? A leader would be a good start. Think this will spell the end of some careers for sure.
Crazy how we're suddenly struggling to outflank the rush defense again ever since Beaudens been starting at 10..
@kpkanz said in Italy v All Blacks:
@Jailbreak7 said in Italy v All Blacks:
Well. A little more calm this morning. But. So many work ons. And it does feel like we've regressed since the WC. TBF the forwards went pretty well this tour. But. The backs. And the attack plan / game management for the most part was non-existent. I could not see for the life of me what they were trying to achieve last night. When they were just hammering away at the Italian line but constantly over running or shelling the last pass, it looked pretty clueless and rudderless out there. No-one seemed willing to step up and take responsibility to seize the game by the scruff. Headless chickens. Leadership group? Where the fuck were they? A leader would be a good start. Think this will spell the end of some careers for sure.
Crazy how we're suddenly struggling to outflank the rush defense again ever since Beaudens been starting at 10..
Depth cough depth
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I'm clearly not watching close enough - the grating thing for me isn't the depth, it's the lack of bodies in motion and/or variation in lines. We often pass way deep....to a guy standing still....who does fuck all other than a step forward and a step sideways.... before passing way deep...to a guy standing still...who...
Yeah fucking depressing
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I honestly, at the start of the year, did not expect to hear whisperings, whisperings mind you, that SB might not be considered a locked in locking spot by the end of the season.
Or maybe I am hearing the wrong whisperings... -
I believe he is an actor in the States, his accent is bit of Aussie, American and Kiwi. There is another guy I follow who is based in Mexico. This is Razor at the press conference.
@SBW1 said in Italy v All Blacks:
I believe he is an actor in the States, his accent is bit of Aussie, American and Kiwi. There is another guy I follow who is based in Mexico. This is Razor at the press conference.
Fuck me - first two minutes of that, with the chick actually insisting on answers to the questions she'd asked - that's a hard watch.
Robertson - avoiding questions, struggling to come up with answers, and resulting to "... we knew it was going to be a hard match"
Barrett - asked about TJP - avoiding the question, but having the self-awareness to realise he was doing so, and obviously... finally just answered it, like a confession.
After that - back to standard sycophantic questions, but even with those... Robertson struggling to do basic bullshit press-conference ramble.
And then - "[after this year] ... you learn about test footy". Possibly the most apt ending. -
I honestly, at the start of the year, did not expect to hear whisperings, whisperings mind you, that SB might not be considered a locked in locking spot by the end of the season.
Or maybe I am hearing the wrong whisperings...@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:
I honestly, at the start of the year, did not expect to hear whisperings, whisperings mind you, that SB might not be considered a locked in locking spot by the end of the season.
Or maybe I am hearing the wrong whisperings...Whisper it quietly but no one expected Tuipulotu and Vai’i to improve like they have
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@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:
I honestly, at the start of the year, did not expect to hear whisperings, whisperings mind you, that SB might not be considered a locked in locking spot by the end of the season.
Or maybe I am hearing the wrong whisperings...Whisper it quietly but no one expected Tuipulotu and Vai’i to improve like they have
@MN5 said in Italy v All Blacks:
@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:
I honestly, at the start of the year, did not expect to hear whisperings, whisperings mind you, that SB might not be considered a locked in locking spot by the end of the season.
Or maybe I am hearing the wrong whisperings...Whisper it quietly but no one expected Tuipulotu and Vai’i to improve like they have
and Darry to be ok! [Someone has to remember the
Blues"Other Guys"]
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@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:
I honestly, at the start of the year, did not expect to hear whisperings, whisperings mind you, that SB might not be considered a locked in locking spot by the end of the season.
Or maybe I am hearing the wrong whisperings...Whisper it quietly but no one expected Tuipulotu and Vai’i to improve like they have
@MN5 said in Italy v All Blacks:
@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:
I honestly, at the start of the year, did not expect to hear whisperings, whisperings mind you, that SB might not be considered a locked in locking spot by the end of the season.
Or maybe I am hearing the wrong whisperings...Whisper it quietly but no one expected Tuipulotu and Vai’i to improve like they have
Especially, in the case of Paddy, considering how he had such a shit SR season...
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@MN5 said in Italy v All Blacks:
@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:
I honestly, at the start of the year, did not expect to hear whisperings, whisperings mind you, that SB might not be considered a locked in locking spot by the end of the season.
Or maybe I am hearing the wrong whisperings...Whisper it quietly but no one expected Tuipulotu and Vai’i to improve like they have
Especially, in the case of Paddy, considering how he had such a shit SR season...
@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:
Whisper it quietly but no one expected Tuipulotu and Vai’i to improve like they have
Especially, in the case of Paddy, considering how he had such a shit SR season...
Yeah, imagine if he had a good SR season, he and the Blues loosies might have actually won something!
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@MN5 said in Italy v All Blacks:
@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:
I honestly, at the start of the year, did not expect to hear whisperings, whisperings mind you, that SB might not be considered a locked in locking spot by the end of the season.
Or maybe I am hearing the wrong whisperings...Whisper it quietly but no one expected Tuipulotu and Vai’i to improve like they have
and Darry to be ok! [Someone has to remember the
Blues"Other Guys"]@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:
@MN5 said in Italy v All Blacks:
@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:
I honestly, at the start of the year, did not expect to hear whisperings, whisperings mind you, that SB might not be considered a locked in locking spot by the end of the season.
Or maybe I am hearing the wrong whisperings...Whisper it quietly but no one expected Tuipulotu and Vai’i to improve like they have
and Darry to be ok! [Someone has to remember the
Blues"Other Guys"]Outstanding movie but I don’t get the reference at all
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@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:
@MN5 said in Italy v All Blacks:
@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:
I honestly, at the start of the year, did not expect to hear whisperings, whisperings mind you, that SB might not be considered a locked in locking spot by the end of the season.
Or maybe I am hearing the wrong whisperings...Whisper it quietly but no one expected Tuipulotu and Vai’i to improve like they have
and Darry to be ok! [Someone has to remember the
Blues"Other Guys"]Outstanding movie but I don’t get the reference at all
@MN5 said in Italy v All Blacks:
@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:
@MN5 said in Italy v All Blacks:
@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:
I honestly, at the start of the year, did not expect to hear whisperings, whisperings mind you, that SB might not be considered a locked in locking spot by the end of the season.
Or maybe I am hearing the wrong whisperings...Whisper it quietly but no one expected Tuipulotu and Vai’i to improve like they have
and Darry to be ok! [Someone has to remember the
Blues"Other Guys"]Outstanding movie but I don’t get the reference at all
That's Hoskins Sotutu and Akira Ioane practising their tactics to get into the ABs...
So any change I get I'll mention the AB forwards who actually got picked...
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@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:
Whisper it quietly but no one expected Tuipulotu and Vai’i to improve like they have
Especially, in the case of Paddy, considering how he had such a shit SR season...
Yeah, imagine if he had a good SR season, he and the Blues loosies might have actually won something!
@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:
Whisper it quietly but no one expected Tuipulotu and Vai’i to improve like they have
Especially, in the case of Paddy, considering how he had such a shit SR season...
Yeah, imagine if he had a good SR season, he and the Blues loosies might have actually won something!
Especially if his back row had played half way decent
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@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:
Whisper it quietly but no one expected Tuipulotu and Vai’i to improve like they have
Especially, in the case of Paddy, considering how he had such a shit SR season...
Yeah, imagine if he had a good SR season, he and the Blues loosies might have actually won something!
Especially if his back row had played half way decent
@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:
Yeah, imagine if he had a good SR season, he and the Blues loosies might have actually won something!
Especially if his back row had played half way decent
ok now it's really beginning to chafe!
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@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:
Yeah, imagine if he had a good SR season, he and the Blues loosies might have actually won something!
Especially if his back row had played half way decent
ok now it's really beginning to chafe!
@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:
Yeah, imagine if he had a good SR season, he and the Blues loosies might have actually won something!
Especially if his back row had played half way decent
ok now it's really beginning to chafe!
Apparently they had an armchair ride from the rest of the tight five and only played one side of the ball
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@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:
Yeah, imagine if he had a good SR season, he and the Blues loosies might have actually won something!
Especially if his back row had played half way decent
ok now it's really beginning to chafe!
Apparently they had an armchair ride from the rest of the tight five and only played one side of the ball
@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:
Apparently they had an armchair ride from the rest of the tight five and only played one side of the ball
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A few days on, I think I was a bit harsh on my thoughts on this match.
Last game of the year/tour against a lesser team with 3 massive matches the weeks before. It's going to be pretty difficult to get up for it & the players reflected that. There was no ambition/motivation to try anything new, it was simply a game of going through the motions to get the tour done and get on the plane home. They didn't play anything like at 100% and to Italy's credit, the opposition did everything they could to not allow them too as well.
Ultimately, the issues were really with the selections, not the players. McKenzie should have been given to control and would have had the motivation to show the coaching team exactly what they had been missing. Perhaps even Plummer, although I wonder if his overseas move had been disclosed beforehand and cemented his position in the stands.
The baggage handlers should have been given a starting spot though, with the firepower on the bench to be used if needed. We really played like we had one eye on the airport lounge with nobody seemingly willing to try anything out. Our defence was decent, our attack mediocre, at best. The scrum was pretty strong, co-incidence that it was de Groot's first game on the tour? I think not.
So yeah, in summary, the game probably went as I should have expected and true blame for such a mediocre outing lies with the selections.
