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I read something on a facebook post by a friend of mine, where a friend of his, who apparently had "firsthand" knowledge of the victims and offenders and said that there had been some sort of racial taunt made by the victim to the offender. Obviously, I don't believe everything I read on facebook, and hilariously (the poster was polynesian) he was talking about how the judge made a reasoned decision and the right decision had been made, while two weeks ago the same person (friend of a friend) was crying "white privilege" about the Delegat kid.
I'm in two minds about him losing his Wellington contract. While I think he absolutely should have been given a conviction by the courts; firing him from Wellington rugby is going to essentially force him to move away from all his support networks if he wants to carry on his career.. The guy was 17 at the time. I made some really stupid decisions when I was that age that thankfully didn't affect future career prospects.
Not sticking up for him at all, as I said, I think he should have had a conviction entered against his name,, and any of the ferners who follow my rants on the off-topic threads will know I'm not a fan of famous people getting off charges by virtue of their potential careers ahead
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@Godder said in Appalling double-standard:
Here are a couple of manslaughter cases where the defendants were discharged without conviction:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/69124061/no-conviction-for-woman-in-manslaughter-of-her-son
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5981533/Mum-walks-free-after-daughters-drowning
Negligent rather than deliberate, but on the other hand, someone died.
It's not just rugby players by any stretch.
I would have thought this case was slightly different (albeit far more serious) given the mother was careless/negligent and will punish herself for the rest of her life, moreso than any conviction or prison sentence ever would.
I know of a few cops who got discharged without convction for things like drink driving and other charges because they successfully argues in court that a conviction would end their careers, so definitely not just a rugby thing. But it does seem to be that being good at a sport in this country is a little bit of a blank cheque in terms of the courts. Moala getting no conviction for slashing that guy's neck in a bar fight was a bit of a joke, even though he is now leading the way in educating young players about bad choices (According to Steve Tew). While we shouldn't be out to ruin people's careers, there should also be consequences to seriously breaking the law...
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@aucklandwarlord said in Appalling double-standard:
@Godder said in Appalling double-standard:
Here are a couple of manslaughter cases where the defendants were discharged without conviction:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/69124061/no-conviction-for-woman-in-manslaughter-of-her-son
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5981533/Mum-walks-free-after-daughters-drowning
Negligent rather than deliberate, but on the other hand, someone died.
It's not just rugby players by any stretch.
I would have thought this case was slightly different (albeit far more serious) given the mother was careless/negligent and will punish herself for the rest of her life, moreso than any conviction or prison sentence ever would.
I know of a few cops who got discharged without convction for things like drink driving and other charges because they successfully argues in court that a conviction would end their careers, so definitely not just a rugby thing. But it does seem to be that being good at a sport in this country is a little bit of a blank cheque in terms of the courts. Moala getting no conviction for slashing that guy's neck in a bar fight was a bit of a joke, even though he is now leading the way in educating young players about bad choices (According to Steve Tew). While we shouldn't be out to ruin people's careers, there should also be consequences to seriously breaking the law...
Agreed, negligence rather than deliberate act, so not directly comparable. My point really was that it's not just sports, and encompasses a wide range of society. As you say, there have been some police officers who have avoided convictions over the years.
has a few examples of successful discharges with name suppression (no sports among them).Discharge Without Conviction | Application for Discharges | DS
Avoid a criminal conviction. Successful criminal lawyer, Daniel Schellenberg, can help you apply for a discharge without conviction to keep your record clean!
- an engineer being discharged,
Drink-driving engineer discharged without conviction
A commissioning engineer who claimed inhaling industrial-strength solvent in a non-ventilated area for 10 hours before drink-driving and crashing...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11717666 has 15 examples of discharges and diversions from rugby.
- some potentially professional basketballers were not so fortunate.On the other hand, http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/314421/discharge-without-conviction-numbers-slump shows that discharges without conviction have halved since 2010, so perhaps the media has beaten this up a bit. A quote in that article from the VP of the Bar:
"One of the main things that keeps people out of trouble is having a job and if the person is likely to lose their job as result of a conviction, that is obviously an important factor and important consequence that other people wouldn't face.
If you take the rugby player situation, a rugby player with a contract who's at risk of losing it would be in a different position to a promising rugby player who would hope to get a contract in the future."
Puts the rugby stuff in perspective a little - if they have a contract, they have a genuine career that will be in jeopardy if convicted, hence the discharge without conviction. Incidentally, that means the NZRU (and provinces, clubs etc) do take it seriously - the job would not be in jeopardy if they didn't, so a discharge would be less important. If anything, the more active and strict the NZRU and provinces get, the more likely it is that a discharge will be granted.
A note on visa travel - DIC by itself normally won't get in the way too much, but violent offenses will, and in particular, make it much harder to be selected at short notice for international squads as often there are visa exemptions for international sport, but these won't apply for people with convictions, especially for violent offenses.
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@mimic said in Appalling double-standard:
The whites get name supression
Arf. Yes, that would be hilarious if the one not named & shamed (and photographed) was the one white guy there. Thats actually probably a great story if NZ actually had a functioning press corp...
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I have no idea why the NZRFU had to apologise. Nothing to do with them. Everything to do with the player concerned. Argh, political correctness.
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FFS I already thought this guy was really trying to prove himself as a giant ballbag lately and this just confirms it.
don't apologise on my behalf you twat
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11719190
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@WillieTheWaiter jesus that really fucking pisses me off! I am more pissed off about that article, and JK having the fucking nerve to think he speaks on behalf of the game, and actually thinking this is a rugby issue, than the original case!
And that fucking photo of the victims pisses me off as well. The media coverage is starting to turn me against them, is it just me or do they look like smug fluffybunnies in that photo?
Fuck!
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this should be yesterdays news...I expect with any investigation into the judges decision will drag it out even further.
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@taniwharugby said in Appalling double-standard:
Apparently NZRU were only aware of the seriousness of the charges this week, WRU were also not aware, although not sure when they found out the seriousness of it.
Looks like it was the WRU that has dropped the ball here, and NZRU is collateral. I wonder what the media reaction to WRU & NZRU would have been if they sacked him during or before the court hearing, before becoming aware of the nature of the charges?
That's the thing for me. I cannot for the life of me figure out why Steve Tew is getting put in the crosshairs by so many ''media commentators''. Wellington RU deserves all the negative attention it gets, but I cannot fathom why NZR and Tew (who only heard about the incident earlier this week) are bearing the brunt of the abuse.
And I couldn't give two shits if Tew called the victims or not yesterday. It's nothing to do with him. Would we expect David White to call up the victims if a Central Districts under-19 batsman (maybe a relative of BFJ's . . . ) knocked over a couple of people after a few drinks at Turks in Hastings? No.
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@WillieTheWaiter said in Appalling double-standard:
FFS I already thought this guy was really trying to prove himself as a giant ballbag lately and this just confirms it.
don't apologise on my behalf you twat
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11719190
JK appears to have been taking PR advice from David "I'm Sorry For Being A Man" Cunliffe.
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@Smudge said in Appalling double-standard:
@WillieTheWaiter said in Appalling double-standard:
FFS I already thought this guy was really trying to prove himself as a giant ballbag lately and this just confirms it.
don't apologise on my behalf you twat
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11719190
JK appears to have been taking PR advice from David "I'm Sorry For Being A Man" Cunliffe.
I doubt it, Silent T's advice, based on his experience, would have been to STFU...
Also, I see Neil Sorensen has been apologising to the victims and NZ on NZRU's behalf.
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I'm going to write them a letter apologising on behalf of all of NZ. It's the least I can do.
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@No-Quarter said in Appalling double-standard:
I'm going to write them a letter apologising on behalf of all of NZ. It's the least I can do.
not from me bro, I meant to punch that dude when I was 20 when him and his 2 mates told me to give them my shoes at 2am when I was drunk on my way home from town...best defence is a swift offence was my thinking.
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@No-Quarter lets not forget he was a school kid at the time so we need someone to apologise on the behalf of all school children.
he was drunk at the time, so need someone to apologise on behalf of all the drinkers
he's an island boy so will need someone from that perspective to say sorry also.
Cunliffe can apologise on behalf of men.
should someone from the law society apologise too? I mean it's their fault he got off...where does it end?
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@WillieTheWaiter said in Appalling double-standard:
@No-Quarter lets not forget he was a school kid at the time so we need someone to apologise on the behalf of all school children.
he was drunk at the time, so need someone to apologise on behalf of all the drinkers
he's an island boy so will need someone from that perspective to say sorry also.
Cunliffe can apologise on behalf of men.
should someone from the law society apologise too? I mean it's their fault he got off...where does it end?
I think Wellingtonians need to offer the rest of NZ an apology too,!
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@taniwharugby said in Appalling double-standard:
@WillieTheWaiter said in Appalling double-standard:
@No-Quarter lets not forget he was a school kid at the time so we need someone to apologise on the behalf of all school children.
he was drunk at the time, so need someone to apologise on behalf of all the drinkers
he's an island boy so will need someone from that perspective to say sorry also.
Cunliffe can apologise on behalf of men.
should someone from the law society apologise too? I mean it's their fault he got off...where does it end?
I think Wellingtonians need to offer the rest of NZ an apology too,!
They can throw in an apology for forcing Winger and Gracie onto us while they're at it.
Appalling double-standard
