Highlanders 2025
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One of the Highlanders' problems over the past couple of years is they seem to be relying on young guys making the grade fairly quickly and slotting into the top 23. That's simply not realistic. Most youngsters take a good three or four years to get up scratch, and more still never successfully make the step up at all.
Haig is the only one in recent years that has made the grade and he's from the 2022 U20s in-take. Otherwise, you've got all of the below since 2020...
Super Rugby starter
George Bell (gone to Crusaders)
Fabian Holland (from Crusaders)
Saula Ma'uSuper Rugby standard
Sean WithyNearing Super Rugby standard but still might never make it
Nathan Hastie
Fin Hurley
Cam MillarCompletely unproven
Hayden Michaels
Jake te HiwiNever stepped up
James Arscott
Harrison Boyle
Jake Russ (NZ 2020 WTS)Future prospects
A-One Lolofie
Dylan Pledger
Josh WhaangaThe hit-rate isn't very high - which is the same for all the other Super Rugby sides, they just tend to have a bigger number of players coming through at any one time so it's not as big of an issue.
External recruitment will be key - it's what earned the Highlanders their title in 2015 and it's the only thing that will again make them a threat in the future.
@Mr-Fish said in Highlanders 2025:
Fabian Holland (from Crusaders)
I don’t think he was ever part of their system was he? Moved to NZ in 2019, went to Christchurch boys high, made NZ schools then the Highlanders got him from there. Since then he has always come through the grades with Otago and the Highlanders to my knowledge.
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Bit of an essay, but perhaps a more reasoned view now that I have calmed down a little.
Across the board we are the most competitive we have been in years. In every season since Mauger arrived we have copped at least one, if not several hidings (of course it could still come this year). I do think the coaches have probably dropped the ball a little bit in regards to squad selection both at the start of the season and over the past few weeks.. that said, with who has been an injured/a dickhead off the field, I think their hands are somewhat tied.
For example, I hate us playing two opensides, but I am not actually convinced Will Stodart would have changed all this. We could have picked an extra lock in the squad, but someone like Will Tucker still isn't Super Rugby standard (though it might have allowed us to get more out of Dunshea/Holland).
I'm going to say Jamie and those above him are not stupid, and they have somewhat taken a long-term view with it to win by 2027, which is the only way you can go about this. Presumably we negotiated with other locks, but obviously couldn't find anyone good - and they don't want to offer two year deals to shit players, which I think is a fair stance when trying to build a team.
We're in an odd position because we fucked up our recruitment so badly between 2020-2023, and it is only now we are not paying the price for it, so in many ways, the clock on the rebuild only properly started last year.
Year One was get the shit out the door, which we did a good job of, Year Two was get some talent in, which we seemingly have done a somewhat decent job of. Year Three there has to be genuine improvements, but there is no reason to suggest that there won't be. We need to sure up the loose forwards, but I also think losing Haig and to a lesser extent Renton has exposed a real lack of depth. Those two are solutions within the squad who have been unavailable.
I don't think it is a coincidence that our win over the Blues coincides with the only elite fullback performance of the season (Hurley), was the only game Fakatava has started, was the last game Renton played (even if I thought he was disappointing at the time) and was the last time we employed a 6-2 to split. I suspect the loose forward crisis probably ruined the plan to operate in a 6-2 split, because I can categorically say we were going to do it against the Canes before unforeseen circumstances.
I'm happy to die on the hill that we are going about this the right way, and so long as you keep this squad together, the right coach has this squad challenging in 2027. On paper, our squad is the weakest of the New Zealand sides, and truthfully is probably weaker than the Brumbies, Waratahs and Reds too, so to be where we are as of now shouldn't be that surprising.
Looking ahead to next year...
Front row will be opportunist based I'd suspect. They'll hold Wingham unless we can pinch a really strong player off someone else, and I just don't see that happening, unless an older guy comes back from overseas. DLB will go probably to be replaced Jack Sexton or Ben Lopas. FWIW, I think Bartlett will prove a shrewd signing. For a 22 year-old, I like what I've seen.
At lock, they'll keep what they have if they can, and will add Tengbald. IMO they should add another guy on top of that, but with Haig fit, Howden may play at lock, and that may be okay.
In the loose, if Michaels & Naeta leave, we'd have room for one more - which I'd assume the aim could be for Tupou Tae'iloa. If they shake either Renton or Broughton too, then they'd probably want to keep Loft around. If we go back to a conventional loose forward trio, then Lasaqa is benched in a 6-2 split, or doesn't play at all, and so the third openside is unlikely to play much. The big thing though, is we must find a proper eight, for the here and now. Be that Semisi Tupou Ta'eiloa, or the owners getting their wallet out to find someone else. A bold play could be Devan Flanders (though he is contracted until 2026), but that did not stop Howden.
The rest of the backline is going to pretty well the same. The halfbacks will be 3 of Hastie, Pledger, Arscott, Fakatava & Lennox. Lowe will be replaced by a fullback I think, and Faleafaga will be replaced by another 10. The only other way we need another player in the backs is if someone leaves. If we keep hold of what we have, we are largely fine in the backs I think.
That might leave a best XV of:
- de Groot
- Vikena (Who has gone under the radar as a good bit of business)
- Ma'u
- Howden
- Holland
- Haig
- Withy
- Tupou Tae'iloa
- Fakatava
- Millar
- Nareki
- Tavatavanawai
- Tele'a
- Tangitau
- Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens
We are never going to be a side with 10+ All Blacks, but we could be a side with 6 or 7, and some really strong players around it. I personally think de Groot, Holland, Tangitau & Haig are all All Black level talents. Jim and JRK are fringe guys, and there are a few others who with consistency and improvements could push. Dylan Pledger is the best player to come out of the region since Ben Smith I'd suggest, and he might even be the starting halfback by the end of the year.
You keep that XV largely fit, with some decent players to come in off the bench, and we go better. The squad is going to again be in improved shape.
Maybe I am too positive, but I suspect this to turn around long-term with the players we have at our disposal.
This season is a write off, but I suspect Haig, Fakatava and JRK to make a huge difference to this. Six wins might be enough to make the top six the way things are going, and we have four games left at Forsyth Barr... weirder things have happened.
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@frugby I have watched multiple interviews where Roger Clark has been on record saying the bigger picture goal was 2026. That was a couple years ago now. I agree with you, 2027 is definitely much more realistic.
@Landers92 i hope so...as usual i got my hopes up a little
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One of the Highlanders' problems over the past couple of years is they seem to be relying on young guys making the grade fairly quickly and slotting into the top 23. That's simply not realistic. Most youngsters take a good three or four years to get up scratch, and more still never successfully make the step up at all.
Haig is the only one in recent years that has made the grade and he's from the 2022 U20s in-take. Otherwise, you've got all of the below since 2020...
Super Rugby starter
George Bell (gone to Crusaders)
Fabian Holland (from Crusaders)
Saula Ma'uSuper Rugby standard
Sean WithyNearing Super Rugby standard but still might never make it
Nathan Hastie
Fin Hurley
Cam MillarCompletely unproven
Hayden Michaels
Jake te HiwiNever stepped up
James Arscott
Harrison Boyle
Jake Russ (NZ 2020 WTS)Future prospects
A-One Lolofie
Dylan Pledger
Josh WhaangaThe hit-rate isn't very high - which is the same for all the other Super Rugby sides, they just tend to have a bigger number of players coming through at any one time so it's not as big of an issue.
External recruitment will be key - it's what earned the Highlanders their title in 2015 and it's the only thing that will again make them a threat in the future.
@Mr-Fish I don't recall Harrison Boyle or Jake Russ playing much NPC if at all.
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@frugby I have watched multiple interviews where Roger Clark has been on record saying the bigger picture goal was 2026. That was a couple years ago now. I agree with you, 2027 is definitely much more realistic.
@Landers92 said in Highlanders 2025:
@frugby I have watched multiple interviews where Roger Clark has been on record saying the bigger picture goal was 2026. That was a couple years ago now. I agree with you, 2027 is definitely much more realistic.
Think from memory it was challenging properly by 2026. They'll probably be a fraction disappointed with where we are this year, but they've got to hold their nerve. Trying to rebuild again won't work.
This mob might not win a Super Rugby title, but I don't think anyone expected we'd make the Top 6 in 2014, and nobody expected us to win the title the following year. Injuries play a huge part, and we probably lost a few this year who we simply could not afford to lose.
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@Mr-Fish I don't recall Harrison Boyle or Jake Russ playing much NPC if at all.
@MacDazzler said in Highlanders 2025:
@Mr-Fish I don't recall Harrison Boyle or Jake Russ playing much NPC if at all.
That's partially my point - some guys who feature in the U20s don't even make a splash in provincial rugby, let alone Super.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2025:
with my app even if it select from start it only goes to maybe 45mins behind live
Ok that's weird, mine I can go to the start even during a live game.
@Chris said in Highlanders 2025:
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2025:
with my app even if it select from start it only goes to maybe 45mins behind live
Ok that's weird, mine I can go to the start even during a live game.
Same, but my coverage cuts out when the live coverage finishes and I have to start again, fast forwarding to where I was.
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@KiwiInLondon you keep talking about ‘underlying issues’ like you know something the rest of us don’t, yet you haven’t told us what they are.
If you are so adamant that’s what it is then elaborate for us, we are all happy to hear it, it’s what this forum is for after all. Don’t just say ‘the failure to do the basics right’ or ‘constant dropped balls’, anyone can say that for any team. Genuinely curious at this point at what you’re referring to.
@Landers92 said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon you keep talking about ‘underlying issues’ like you know something the rest of us don’t, yet you haven’t told us what they are.
If you are so adamant that’s what it is then elaborate for us, we are all happy to hear it, it’s what this forum is for after all. Don’t just say ‘the failure to do the basics right’ or ‘constant dropped balls’, anyone can say that for any team. Genuinely curious at this point at what you’re referring to.
So you don’t think the stunted improvement of players and the demonstrable proof we get every weekend that these players just don’t know how to execute a game plan or use their two brain cells isn’t proof that there is a serious issue with the structures of player development and coaching in the Otago region?
The attitude is shit. The leadership is shit. The execution is shit. That isn’t just inexperience. The fact that maybe 3-4 of our players start for another kiwi franchise and the rest would do well to make the bench isn’t an indication that the Highlanders are slipping further and further behind? Despite years of investing in two decent groups of u20s players?
It doesn’t concern you that if we keep going like we’re going and the rest of the teams continue to improve. We’re a bottom two team?
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@Chris said in Highlanders 2025:
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2025:
with my app even if it select from start it only goes to maybe 45mins behind live
Ok that's weird, mine I can go to the start even during a live game.
Same, but my coverage cuts out when the live coverage finishes and I have to start again, fast forwarding to where I was.
@Crazy-Horse said in Highlanders 2025:
@Chris said in Highlanders 2025:
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2025:
with my app even if it select from start it only goes to maybe 45mins behind live
Ok that's weird, mine I can go to the start even during a live game.
Same, but my coverage cuts out when the live coverage finishes and I have to start again, fast forwarding to where I was.
Ah shit mine doesn't do that either.
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Oscar Koller could be a good recruit. He has a massive left boot and does the basics well. He is not a running 1st Five but is that what the Landers need ?
@cgrant said in Highlanders 2025:
Oscar Koller could be a good recruit. He has a massive left boot and does the basics well. He is not a running 1st Five but is that what the Landers need ?
Might as well stick with Cam Millar in that case (which I don't think is a bad idea regardless).
Better off trying to bring down a Kaleb Trask or Stephen Perofeta.
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@cgrant said in Highlanders 2025:
Oscar Koller could be a good recruit. He has a massive left boot and does the basics well. He is not a running 1st Five but is that what the Landers need ?
Might as well stick with Cam Millar in that case (which I don't think is a bad idea regardless).
Better off trying to bring down a Kaleb Trask or Stephen Perofeta.
@Mr-Fish said in Highlanders 2025:
@cgrant said in Highlanders 2025:
Oscar Koller could be a good recruit. He has a massive left boot and does the basics well. He is not a running 1st Five but is that what the Landers need ?
Might as well stick with Cam Millar in that case (which I don't think is a bad idea regardless).
Better off trying to bring down a Kaleb Trask or Stephen Perofeta.
Trask never seems to be not injured. He would be a risk.
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The Highlanders don’t need backs. We might need a max of an outside back and a first five - maybe a midfielder too.
Tayne Harvey will be the midfield, Rangitutia would probably be the outside back, and whoever would be the 10, but these guys would be making up the numbers in case of injury.
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I was talking of him as a replacement for Faleafaga. I don't think Perofeta will leave the Blues for the Highlanders.
I forgot about Trask but he is more a fullback than a 1st Five. -
Is Shanon Frizell likely to return to the Highlanders next year or before the next world cup?
@SBW1 said in Highlanders 2025:
Is Shanon Frizell likely to return to the Highlanders next year or before the next world cup?
Doubt it. TK Howden(24) and Oli Haig(23) show more than enough promise to feel good about the 6 jersey. Shannon Frizzell is already 31, I just can’t see that happening.
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Is Shanon Frizell likely to return to the Highlanders next year or before the next world cup?
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Is Shanon Frizell likely to return to the Highlanders next year or before the next world cup?
@SBW1 said in Highlanders 2025:
Is Shanon Frizell likely to return to the Highlanders next year or before the next world cup?
I hope not, other than being the tail end of his carrier….was a fluffybunny I’m happy left
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Sean Withy banned for three weeks -
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360646752/highlanders-no-8-sean-withy-banned-three-weeks-kneeing-opponent-face
