Highlanders 2025
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@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
About a year ago we beat the Crusaders… for the rest of last year we made steady progress, we then recruited well, and started this season well.
We then steadily took steps backwards from after that Blues game, and now it feels like we are back where we started.
I’m not sure you can really blame the injuries. What was concerning about last night was it felt like the coaching staff panicked… they changed some of the things which were working, and unsurprisingly that didn’t go well.
JJ walked in and said he wanted Dermody’s job… has he been an upgrade? The way we are tracking we might get the spoon, and that will be so damaging to any long-term plans. I feel gutted.
So beating a 13 man Blues team off the back of a freak Hurley chip and chase was your basis for everything starting to go right?
I got shat on for saying after 2-3 games things would turn to shit. Turns out everything I said was right. It’s been a shit show. I really do mean everything I said turned out to be true. None of these players have improved after the past 24 months
I challenge anyone to find any form of gameplay that the team has implemented this season. Any gameplay. It’s been an absolute shocker.
read it again....he said it went Backwards after the blues game...not the start of everything going right, a little too quick to jump in and try and point out "i was right"
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On reflection, I might have been a bit harsh. I'm not convinced selections have been great, and the original squad was partially flawed, but it is undeniable that there are serious gaps in this team.
Nevermind All Blacks, most of our guys don't even make the best 23 for the other franchises. de Groot, Holland, Fakatava, Tavatavanawai, JRK & Tangitau probably do, but that kind of speaks to the issues. We are just getting consistently butchered up front, and don't have a quality 10 to cover for it, so our best players don't see the ball.
The squad is young, but my big concern is that a lot of these guys are showing themselves to be young, rather than potential. A fit and firing Haig will make a difference eventually, but we have zero x-factor in the loose forwards.
On paper, as of right now, we have the fifth best squad in New Zealand, and you'd be hard pressed to argue we are better than the Waratahs, Reds or Brumbies. We have some better individuals than the Force, but they have an international quality first five who has won them a couple of games. You'd be hard pressed to argue we are any better than the 9th best team in this comp, and that is probably where we will finish if we beat Moana this weekend - as hard as it is to accept.
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
On reflection, I might have been a bit harsh. I'm not convinced selections have been great, and the original squad was partially flawed, but it is undeniable that there are serious gaps in this team.
Nevermind All Blacks, most of our guys don't even make the best 23 for the other franchises. de Groot, Holland, Fakatava, Tavatavanawai, JRK & Tangitau probably do, but that kind of speaks to the issues. We are just getting consistently butchered up front, and don't have a quality 10 to cover for it, so our best players don't see the ball.
The squad is young, but my big concern is that a lot of these guys are showing themselves to be young, rather than potential. A fit and firing Haig will make a difference eventually, but we have zero x-factor in the loose forwards.
Some loose forwards that have x factor who might aspire for meaningful game time in Super are Che Clark & Malachi Wrampling but they themselves are young and inexperienced.. just tough isn't it. Decade ago you could recruit guys like Squire & Luke Whitelock who would be mid 20s with years of 1st class games under their belt.
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@frugby's point around would our guys make other teams is one I tend to look at. It somewhat reflects the bar of where we are at.
We have a few guys who would. Then some others who would be useful and easily switch in as cover.
Even a guy like Jim Tavatavanawai. While he is probably the best utility back going around. You'd be hard pressed to say he is a top five winger or 12.
When there are quality players in a squad, there is less risk when bringing in an inexperienced player in. There is a lot more guidance available. Bringing in a guy like Manson is a risk for us. Due to defensive issues. Whereas if he was apart of a stronger squad. There would more likely be All Blacks and experienced super players around him to give guidance. His mistakes would also be less visible.
The flow on from this is that we lose games, and end up selecting 'safer' players.
I'd much rather see guys give a go and us lose by 20. Than seeing safe players with limited attacking threats put in and we lose by the same amount.
Recruitment isn't a one sided equation. Players need to want come as much as we need them to come. As I've said before you have to tell a story as to why a player will have a good future at the franchise. It is a hard story to sell at the moment. Very few players to learn off. Team down the bottom of the table. Really good starting team opportunities though!
If you take an objective look at our recruitment over the last few years.
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we have probably prioritised local guys too much instead of pushing for the market
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We have let a couple of lads go with Semisi Tupou and Noah Hotham (with Hastie and Arscott perferred)
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there has been a clear youth focus. Probably lacked a few guys to hold the fort so to speak
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only a few proper recent recruitmebt balls ups. Naeata being the main one.
Above all it is a bad look for NZR having a team so far behind the other four primary NZ sides. It should be considering doing some guiding around leveling rhe playing field.
As I've mentioned before. Losing by 30 each week sucks. There is no quick fix when your guys are so far behind.
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@SouthernMann Yeah agree, although I don’t think you can blame the franchise over Hotham.
At the time we had Smith, and Fakatava looked like he would be the successor, the Crusaders had nobody… whilst the ORFU were straight braindead, I think the Landers would liked to have kept him but never stood a chance.
FWIW, I actually thought Fakatava outplayed him in the weekend.
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Well perhaps you guys are right. I’m just incredibly worried we’re pissing away the talent we have. See what happens for the rest of the season. But if the Landers guys for Otago during the NPC season don’t start dominating, I’d have real concern the players aren’t going anywhere
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That makes sense.
Prop, eight, 10 and 13 are our biggest problems. As well course with depth
There are some dynamic eights you can potentially pull from elsewhere in the country.
I've had a scan through the other NZ squads, and there is noone potentially available that will push the team along. The Chiefs will need to keep their midfield backs around with ALB going off shore. There are no 10s around. Props the same. Will be expensive, we just can't go backwards in the scrum like we have and run a full season flipping between Millar and Robinson waiting for them to be less bad than eachother.
If sourcing a 10 we need another level from the Patchell and Burns years. Also needs to be someone who could stick around for 2 - 3 years.
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
That makes sense.
Prop, eight, 10 and 13 are our biggest problems. As well course with depth
There are some dynamic eights you can potentially pull from elsewhere in the country.
I've had a scan through the other NZ squads, and there is noone potentially available that will push the team along. The Chiefs will need to keep their midfield backs around with ALB going off shore. There are no 10s around. Props the same. Will be expensive, we just can't go backwards in the scrum like we have and run a full season flipping between Millar and Robinson waiting for them to be less bad than eachother.
If sourcing a 10 we need another level from the Patchell and Burns years. Also needs to be someone who could stick around for 2 - 3 years.
We've never really replaced Lima. Ioane had the skills but not the brain, the others had moments but nothing prolonged enough.
I still feel JJ and the coaching staff have things to answer for when it comes to Millar. That guy dropped back to back MOTM performances against Moana and the Crusaders last year, was a shining light for Otago, and then was just jettisoned, and we wonder why his confidence looks shot to bits... I just really struggle to see a way back for him. Robinson is limited, but has to come back for now.
As for who we could get from overseas, as I understand it there is no shortage of money, so I would not be surprised to see us chuck a fat stack of cash at someone.
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Two words … Josh Jacomb
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@CtownCowboy said in Highlanders 2025:
Two words … Josh Jacomb
He ain't leaving the Chiefs. Another McKenzie sabbatical, and plenty of options for him to start along the way. He is the future of the Chiefs.
Mika Muliaina is the kid they are watching down there. Sadly he is only just out of school.
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@CtownCowboy said in Highlanders 2025:
Two words … Josh Jacomb
The only 10’s you stand a genuine shot at convincing to come down are him(Jacomb) and Reihana. Sabbaticals will impact this obviously.
If they want to be get more exposure and playing opportunities then it’s pretty straight forward. As AB fans, we should want a guy like Jacomb starting week in week out, so should he and NZR.
Overall, I want NZ’s best players on the field every weekend. It benefits all parties as well as the competition. They are no good sitting in the stands getting 20-30min cameos with the odd spot start.
Whether that happens is a different story and not really one for now, it’s better suited for the off season. It is a rabbit hole you can go down and be said for a lot of players. For now you ride it out with what you have and hope you learn a lot about these players when things aren’t going their way. I still believe better days are ahead.
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@CtownCowboy he's got at least 1 more year on his contract with the chiefs and he's in their 23 most weeks anyway, it's 1 of those things these days guys like James O'Connor and George Bower have openly admitted as long as they're in the matchday 23 they're happy. so who is the 1st five equivalent of Tangitau and Kneepkens in Auckland who is spending their Saturdays playing club rugby infront of 100 people?
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Fair enough lads , just hearing whispers . Nothing more nothing less . Go Landers !
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Who offshore is in the conversation? Otere Black could be one. Presumably Lima’s a bit long in the tooth. Bryn Gatland could be a good pickup. Or Fergus Bruke
Maybe Fletcher Smith, Ihaia West & Tiaan Falcon are all still playing too right? Though none impress me.
Eight should have been a no brainer with Semesi Tupou, but just like Christian Lio Willie we like him go. I think Malachi Wrampling Gideon could be a good pickup. But he’s extremely green.
Prop’s a hard one. We need a good tighthead and Loosehead and they don’t grow on trees. Finley Brewis is one I like the look of but he’s always injured. Alex Fidow, Siate Tokahlahi or Oli Jager could be good shouts.
Thirteen - we should just bring back Malakai Fekitoa for a final season.
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@handa457 said in Highlanders 2025:
Who offshore is in the conversation? Otere Black could be one. Presumably Lima’s a bit long in the tooth. Bryn Gatland could be a good pickup. Or Fergus Bruke
Maybe Fletcher Smith, Ihaia West & Tiaan Falcon are all still playing too right? Though none impress me.
Eight should have been a no brainer with Semesi Tupou, but just like Christian Lio Willie we like him go. I think Malachi Wrampling Gideon could be a good pickup. But he’s extremely green.
Prop’s a hard one. We need a good tighthead and Loosehead and they don’t grow on trees. Finley Brewis is one I like the look of but he’s always injured. Alex Fidow, Siate Tokahlahi or Oli Jager could be good shouts.
Thirteen - we should just bring back Malakai Fekitoa for a final season.
When the various development contracts were being handed out that year, Semesi had obvious shortcomings. Can’t really blame the landers for passing him up.
Ihaia west has been killing it in France and won’t pass up on his French salary for Dunedin.
The most realistic hope would be a good Aussie 10 that’s sitting on the bench somewhere. We won’t get high quality European 10s over here
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@KiwiInLondon do you mind elaborating on his shortcomings?
It’s a bit hard (outside looking in) to understand how a bloke who dominated NPC, was 21 and in a position we critically needed was overlooked. Especially with how he’s kicked on.
Obviously factors I’m probably not seeing. But interested to hear more.
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@handa457 said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon do you mind elaborating on his shortcomings?
It’s a bit hard (outside looking in) to understand how a bloke who dominated NPC, was 21 and in a position we critically needed was overlooked. Especially with how he’s kicked on.
Obviously factors I’m probably not seeing. But interested to hear more.
The criticism was that he is too short to be a top level 8, is one dimensional, a poor trainer and doesn't get involved enough. Several of those criticisms have been disproven this year
