Hurricanes vs Chiefs
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Proctor is all class.
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Few good moments but quite a messy game. I really dislike that style of reffing, where players can do illegal shit and as long as they stop doing it when the refs tells them to he won't blow it. They've already done it. Also players in the way slowing down ruck ball but not penalised because "he's trying". Can't see how you can justify that while penalising props who can't take the heat in scrums - he's trying too yeah?
Good to see a few nice touches from Lomax, starting to come into form at the right time. Kirifi was good, but I do worry that with a different ref he gets penalties against instead of turnovers. Not seeing much from Roigard that justifies the hype at all to be honest - seems like more than half the times he tries to run these days is looking for a try himself from close to the line, so I'm not really buying him holding defenders. His service is okay, his kicking is okay. his support play is okay. Just don't see him doing anything outstanding.
Love has got some great ball skills, but still is making too many basic errors for me to want to see him in a tight test match yet..Great to see talent coming through at 10 though, I think he's better suited to there than 15 long term.
Midfielders who keep the ball alive are a good thing. -
Few good moments but quite a messy game. I really dislike that style of reffing, where players can do illegal shit and as long as they stop doing it when the refs tells them to he won't blow it. They've already done it. Also players in the way slowing down ruck ball but not penalised because "he's trying". Can't see how you can justify that while penalising props who can't take the heat in scrums - he's trying too yeah?
Good to see a few nice touches from Lomax, starting to come into form at the right time. Kirifi was good, but I do worry that with a different ref he gets penalties against instead of turnovers. Not seeing much from Roigard that justifies the hype at all to be honest - seems like more than half the times he tries to run these days is looking for a try himself from close to the line, so I'm not really buying him holding defenders. His service is okay, his kicking is okay. his support play is okay. Just don't see him doing anything outstanding.
Love has got some great ball skills, but still is making too many basic errors for me to want to see him in a tight test match yet..Great to see talent coming through at 10 though, I think he's better suited to there than 15 long term.
Midfielders who keep the ball alive are a good thing.@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby. -
Few good moments but quite a messy game. I really dislike that style of reffing, where players can do illegal shit and as long as they stop doing it when the refs tells them to he won't blow it. They've already done it. Also players in the way slowing down ruck ball but not penalised because "he's trying". Can't see how you can justify that while penalising props who can't take the heat in scrums - he's trying too yeah?
Good to see a few nice touches from Lomax, starting to come into form at the right time. Kirifi was good, but I do worry that with a different ref he gets penalties against instead of turnovers. Not seeing much from Roigard that justifies the hype at all to be honest - seems like more than half the times he tries to run these days is looking for a try himself from close to the line, so I'm not really buying him holding defenders. His service is okay, his kicking is okay. his support play is okay. Just don't see him doing anything outstanding.
Love has got some great ball skills, but still is making too many basic errors for me to want to see him in a tight test match yet..Great to see talent coming through at 10 though, I think he's better suited to there than 15 long term.
Midfielders who keep the ball alive are a good thing.@reprobate yep, do it early on to set the marker for 5/10 mins, but after that if they keep infringing ping em, they'll learn better that way, or should.
All well and good playing to the ref, but if all he does is 'coach' the players, it means they are infringing and affecting the flow of the game.
I dont want more pens and cards, but the ref needs to lay the marker.
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Few good moments but quite a messy game. I really dislike that style of reffing, where players can do illegal shit and as long as they stop doing it when the refs tells them to he won't blow it. They've already done it. Also players in the way slowing down ruck ball but not penalised because "he's trying". Can't see how you can justify that while penalising props who can't take the heat in scrums - he's trying too yeah?
Good to see a few nice touches from Lomax, starting to come into form at the right time. Kirifi was good, but I do worry that with a different ref he gets penalties against instead of turnovers. Not seeing much from Roigard that justifies the hype at all to be honest - seems like more than half the times he tries to run these days is looking for a try himself from close to the line, so I'm not really buying him holding defenders. His service is okay, his kicking is okay. his support play is okay. Just don't see him doing anything outstanding.
Love has got some great ball skills, but still is making too many basic errors for me to want to see him in a tight test match yet..Great to see talent coming through at 10 though, I think he's better suited to there than 15 long term.
Midfielders who keep the ball alive are a good thing.@reprobate said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
Few good moments but quite a messy game. I really dislike that style of reffing, where players can do illegal shit and as long as they stop doing it when the refs tells them to he won't blow it. They've already done it. Also players in the way slowing down ruck ball but not penalised because "he's trying". Can't see how you can justify that while penalising props who can't take the heat in scrums - he's trying too yeah?
Good to see a few nice touches from Lomax, starting to come into form at the right time. Kirifi was good, but I do worry that with a different ref he gets penalties against instead of turnovers. Not seeing much from Roigard that justifies the hype at all to be honest - seems like more than half the times he tries to run these days is looking for a try himself from close to the line, so I'm not really buying him holding defenders. His service is okay, his kicking is okay. his support play is okay. Just don't see him doing anything outstanding.
Love has got some great ball skills, but still is making too many basic errors for me to want to see him in a tight test match yet..Great to see talent coming through at 10 though, I think he's better suited to there than 15 long term.
Midfielders who keep the ball alive are a good thing.Yep, agree to an extent with Roigard, he isn't near his top form atm but I did allude to this the other day that all teams will see him as a danger and will be putting more players around the ruck so there will be less opportunity for him to snipe. Larkham specifically said that their whole game plan against the Hurricanes the other week was to shut down Roigard because they know how dangerous he can be.
In saying it all that, he seems to be a few notches down on what he was last year, I'm hoping that he comes out firing for us after the bye.
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@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.It's not a stoppage yet if you're playing advantage. All letting it go does is encourage players to mildly offend all the time, which makes the game slower and worse.
Just watched the highlanders moana game - and same deal "no Ardie, you're offside". No advantage/penalty played, and he's already stopped fast ball being an option. Then off the slow ball he's caused there is a knock-on, and Moana benefit. I just can't see that being anything other than bad for the game.
Communication is a good thing, but play advantage - then they know for next time and the team playing within the rules isn't disadvantaged. I don't mind things being let go if they genuinely don't affect the play - but for me fast ruck ball is pretty much the key to good rugby, and that is what I see suffering right now. -
My answer was concerning your word "underpowered". I do know that scrum is also a matter of technique.
@cgrant said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
My answer was concerning your word "underpowered". I do know that scrum is also a matter of technique.
Fair enough, but I’m referring to how hard their shoulder is creasing the tighthead’s Arse cheek, rather than the size of their biceps!
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@reprobate yep, do it early on to set the marker for 5/10 mins, but after that if they keep infringing ping em, they'll learn better that way, or should.
All well and good playing to the ref, but if all he does is 'coach' the players, it means they are infringing and affecting the flow of the game.
I dont want more pens and cards, but the ref needs to lay the marker.
@taniwharugby said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate yep, do it early on to set the marker for 5/10 mins, but after that if they keep infringing ping em, they'll learn better that way, or should.
All well and good playing to the ref, but if all he does is 'coach' the players, it means they are infringing and affecting the flow of the game.
I dont want more pens and cards, but the ref needs to lay the marker.
Couldn’t agree more.
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@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.It's not a stoppage yet if you're playing advantage. All letting it go does is encourage players to mildly offend all the time, which makes the game slower and worse.
Just watched the highlanders moana game - and same deal "no Ardie, you're offside". No advantage/penalty played, and he's already stopped fast ball being an option. Then off the slow ball he's caused there is a knock-on, and Moana benefit. I just can't see that being anything other than bad for the game.
Communication is a good thing, but play advantage - then they know for next time and the team playing within the rules isn't disadvantaged. I don't mind things being let go if they genuinely don't affect the play - but for me fast ruck ball is pretty much the key to good rugby, and that is what I see suffering right now.@reprobate Itoje made his name from being quick to stop offending when it was pointed out by ref, until they decided to penalise first, after which his effectiveness was severely curtailed.
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@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.It's not a stoppage yet if you're playing advantage. All letting it go does is encourage players to mildly offend all the time, which makes the game slower and worse.
Just watched the highlanders moana game - and same deal "no Ardie, you're offside". No advantage/penalty played, and he's already stopped fast ball being an option. Then off the slow ball he's caused there is a knock-on, and Moana benefit. I just can't see that being anything other than bad for the game.
Communication is a good thing, but play advantage - then they know for next time and the team playing within the rules isn't disadvantaged. I don't mind things being let go if they genuinely don't affect the play - but for me fast ruck ball is pretty much the key to good rugby, and that is what I see suffering right now.@reprobate said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.It's not a stoppage yet if you're playing advantage. All letting it go does is encourage players to mildly offend all the time, which makes the game slower and worse.
Just watched the highlanders moana game - and same deal "no Ardie, you're offside". No advantage/penalty played, and he's already stopped fast ball being an option. Then off the slow ball he's caused there is a knock-on, and Moana benefit. I just can't see that being anything other than bad for the game.
Communication is a good thing, but play advantage - then they know for next time and the team playing within the rules isn't disadvantaged. I don't mind things being let go if they genuinely don't affect the play - but for me fast ruck ball is pretty much the key to good rugby, and that is what I see suffering right now.Best thing is to ref it tight for the opening part of a game to set the tone, then gently relax and allow the game to flow once the players realise the ref won't tolerate them taking the piss
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@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.It's not a stoppage yet if you're playing advantage. All letting it go does is encourage players to mildly offend all the time, which makes the game slower and worse.
Just watched the highlanders moana game - and same deal "no Ardie, you're offside". No advantage/penalty played, and he's already stopped fast ball being an option. Then off the slow ball he's caused there is a knock-on, and Moana benefit. I just can't see that being anything other than bad for the game.
Communication is a good thing, but play advantage - then they know for next time and the team playing within the rules isn't disadvantaged. I don't mind things being let go if they genuinely don't affect the play - but for me fast ruck ball is pretty much the key to good rugby, and that is what I see suffering right now.@reprobate fair enough mate, I can agree with some points, and can see re the slowing ball, but by same token, I just want players called back from offside, especially in case where it has no effect on game. But we all see it a little different mate.
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@reprobate said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.It's not a stoppage yet if you're playing advantage. All letting it go does is encourage players to mildly offend all the time, which makes the game slower and worse.
Just watched the highlanders moana game - and same deal "no Ardie, you're offside". No advantage/penalty played, and he's already stopped fast ball being an option. Then off the slow ball he's caused there is a knock-on, and Moana benefit. I just can't see that being anything other than bad for the game.
Communication is a good thing, but play advantage - then they know for next time and the team playing within the rules isn't disadvantaged. I don't mind things being let go if they genuinely don't affect the play - but for me fast ruck ball is pretty much the key to good rugby, and that is what I see suffering right now.Best thing is to ref it tight for the opening part of a game to set the tone, then gently relax and allow the game to flow once the players realise the ref won't tolerate them taking the piss
@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.Best thing is to ref it tight for the opening part of a game to set the tone, then gently relax and allow the game to flow once the players realise the ref won't tolerate them taking the piss
Yep mate, once again, no win for ref. Imagine the Canes get penalised early in game, and opposition don't later in game for same thing.
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@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.Best thing is to ref it tight for the opening part of a game to set the tone, then gently relax and allow the game to flow once the players realise the ref won't tolerate them taking the piss
Yep mate, once again, no win for ref. Imagine the Canes get penalised early in game, and opposition don't later in game for same thing.
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.Best thing is to ref it tight for the opening part of a game to set the tone, then gently relax and allow the game to flow once the players realise the ref won't tolerate them taking the piss
Yep mate, once again, no win for ref. Imagine the Canes get penalised early in game, and opposition don't later in game for same thing.
That's fair
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@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.Best thing is to ref it tight for the opening part of a game to set the tone, then gently relax and allow the game to flow once the players realise the ref won't tolerate them taking the piss
Yep mate, once again, no win for ref. Imagine the Canes get penalised early in game, and opposition don't later in game for same thing.
That's fair
@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.Best thing is to ref it tight for the opening part of a game to set the tone, then gently relax and allow the game to flow once the players realise the ref won't tolerate them taking the piss
Yep mate, once again, no win for ref. Imagine the Canes get penalised early in game, and opposition don't later in game for same thing.
That's fair
I might be taking this out of context, but isn't that just bad reffing?
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@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.Best thing is to ref it tight for the opening part of a game to set the tone, then gently relax and allow the game to flow once the players realise the ref won't tolerate them taking the piss
Yep mate, once again, no win for ref. Imagine the Canes get penalised early in game, and opposition don't later in game for same thing.
That's fair
I might be taking this out of context, but isn't that just bad reffing?
@Bones said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.Best thing is to ref it tight for the opening part of a game to set the tone, then gently relax and allow the game to flow once the players realise the ref won't tolerate them taking the piss
Yep mate, once again, no win for ref. Imagine the Canes get penalised early in game, and opposition don't later in game for same thing.
That's fair
I might be taking this out of context, but isn't that just bad reffing?
Inconsistency is not part of good reffing, so I get what Dan is saying that a penalty in the first 10 minutes should be a penalty in the final 10, in an ideal world
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@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.It's not a stoppage yet if you're playing advantage. All letting it go does is encourage players to mildly offend all the time, which makes the game slower and worse.
Just watched the highlanders moana game - and same deal "no Ardie, you're offside". No advantage/penalty played, and he's already stopped fast ball being an option. Then off the slow ball he's caused there is a knock-on, and Moana benefit. I just can't see that being anything other than bad for the game.
Communication is a good thing, but play advantage - then they know for next time and the team playing within the rules isn't disadvantaged. I don't mind things being let go if they genuinely don't affect the play - but for me fast ruck ball is pretty much the key to good rugby, and that is what I see suffering right now.@reprobate said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.It's not a stoppage yet if you're playing advantage. All letting it go does is encourage players to mildly offend all the time, which makes the game slower and worse.
Just watched the highlanders moana game - and same deal "no Ardie, you're offside". No advantage/penalty played, and he's already stopped fast ball being an option. Then off the slow ball he's caused there is a knock-on, and Moana benefit. I just can't see that being anything other than bad for the game.
Communication is a good thing, but play advantage - then they know for next time and the team playing within the rules isn't disadvantaged. I don't mind things being let go if they genuinely don't affect the play - but for me fast ruck ball is pretty much the key to good rugby, and that is what I see suffering right now.Yeah. Bloke offends: penalised.
There was an instance in the Drua v Reds.
Drua halfback approached the lineout inside the 10m before it had ended. Ref tells him "get back, get back, get back".
No, he fucked up and offended. Penalise him.
Game is altered as everybody stops while they work out what's going on before old mate wanders back to the 10.
Drua actually score.
Be pissed off if I was a Red or supporter.
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I get everyone's point about blowing every infringement, but can guarantee we would have more complaints if refs did that very thing ,even playing advantage. Perhaps I have just watched rugby too long, and remember when refs got moaned at for being over zealous,even when playing advantage. See we getting complaints now that advantage is dead time and should be added on etc. What we watch is an imperfect game, and guess I just personally happy that way.
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@pakman (first post, long time reader) I can't speak to super rugby, but the wife is an international umpire for field hockey. They have an umpire manager and multiple technical officials that at half time will have a huddle and between the two umpires on the field and the UM will discuss relevant issues, trends, and themes etc. After the game the umpires get a debrief, and a scorecard on performance etc. Fitness right through to individual calls and game management etc. So if for amateur hockey this is happening at the regional tournament and international evel. I would be very surprised its not happening at the super level.
Not union but at a recent hockey international tournament in Sydney. The NRL ref's and the hockey umpires had several get togethers and did some cross pollination on practices and processes. Some mentoring both ways is occurring as well.
I know that the union commentary team have access to the ref's prior and after games as well to discuss things. So the belligerence of certain commentators about the rules is an "act".
