Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?
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@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@gt12 said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
Where are the results for the last 8 years?
Linked above, but since you asked, they aren't actually that bad at home.
This year sucked (as did 2022) but before that they were still a better chance to win at home than not.
2025: 2/5 (29%)
2024: 4/3 (57%)
2023: 4/3 (57%)
2022: 2/5 (29%)
2021: 3/0 (100%)
2020: 2/2 (50%)
2019: 4/1/3 (50%)BTW, your premise is:
Carisbrook was known as the house of pain and it was tough to win down there.
The new stadium doesn't have the same rep.Not that bad but not that good either.
Yes. I don't think the new stadium has the same reputation as Carisbrook as being a place tough to win at. Do you disagree with that?
Blues Record at FBS: 3/12 (No wins prior to 2020)
Chiefs Record at FBS: 6/11 (1 Draw)
Hurricanes Record at FBS: 9/13
Crusaders Record at FBS: 8/12Considering the Highlanders have been pretty crap since 2019 more generally, I'd say FBS is far from an easy place to go.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
....i mean our only super rugby title came after we moved into Forsyth Barr.....
But you did win it outside at the Caketin
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@SouthernMann said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@gt12 said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
Where are the results for the last 8 years?
Linked above, but since you asked, they aren't actually that bad at home.
This year sucked (as did 2022) but before that they were still a better chance to win at home than not.
2025: 2/5 (29%)
2024: 4/3 (57%)
2023: 4/3 (57%)
2022: 2/5 (29%)
2021: 3/0 (100%)
2020: 2/2 (50%)
2019: 4/1/3 (50%)BTW, your premise is:
Carisbrook was known as the house of pain and it was tough to win down there.
The new stadium doesn't have the same rep.Not that bad but not that good either.
Yes. I don't think the new stadium has the same reputation as Carisbrook as being a place tough to win at. Do you disagree with that?
Shit take. Our teams have generally been poor/mid level. The results reflected the capability of the players.
As said earlier. Carisbrook was a cold, shithole. The last few years of it were bloody bleak.
FBS is really well positioned, close to uni
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@gt12 said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@gt12 said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
Where are the results for the last 8 years?
Linked above, but since you asked, they aren't actually that bad at home.
This year sucked (as did 2022) but before that they were still a better chance to win at home than not.
2025: 2/5 (29%)
2024: 4/3 (57%)
2023: 4/3 (57%)
2022: 2/5 (29%)
2021: 3/0 (100%)
2020: 2/2 (50%)
2019: 4/1/3 (50%)BTW, your premise is:
Carisbrook was known as the house of pain and it was tough to win down there.
The new stadium doesn't have the same rep.Not that bad but not that good either.
Yes. I don't think the new stadium has the same reputation as Carisbrook as being a place tough to win at. Do you disagree with that?
Yeah, it's a shit take.
Carisbrook was a shithole and teams hated playing there, but that wasn't necessarily because of the quality of the Landers teams and whether they could get a win or not. It was just a freezing shithole.
That's my point that the freezing shithole gave them an edge and made them tougher. It may have been a freezing shithole but it was their freezing shithole.
The current crop of players don't have the same kind of edge. You show some great results in the mid 10's but a bunch of those players were probably forged at Carisbrook.
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@gt12 said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
To reinforce the point, let's look at a representative example of what the Landers teams looked like when the Brook was 'feared'. I'll choose 2001 because I found it first. I think 2000 may have been stronger as Kronfeld may have still been around.
Highlanders Squad:
Forwards: Samui Vahafalou, Josh Blackie, John Blaikie, Taine Randell, Kelvin Middleton, Vulla Maimuri, Finau Maka, Simon Maling, Carl Hayman, Carl Hoeft, Joe McDonnell, Kees Meeuws, Anton Oliver, Tom Willis.
Backs: Jeff Wilson, Brendan Laney, Mark Urwin, Iliesa Tanivula, Romi Ropati, George Leaupepe, Neil Brew, Pita Alatini, Tony Brown, Byron Kelleher, Andrew (Billy) Fulton.
I count 9 ABs in the forwards, including the starting front row, and the AB captain, and 4 in the backs, including at least 2 (3) in the 23.
Results at home: 6/0 (100%)
Shall we compare with this year's team?
I think those players you list there were generally mentally tougher than the current crop - particularly in the forwards. The Highlanders squad has some genuine talent in it on paper and the results are not adding up.
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@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@gt12 said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@gt12 said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
Where are the results for the last 8 years?
Linked above, but since you asked, they aren't actually that bad at home.
This year sucked (as did 2022) but before that they were still a better chance to win at home than not.
2025: 2/5 (29%)
2024: 4/3 (57%)
2023: 4/3 (57%)
2022: 2/5 (29%)
2021: 3/0 (100%)
2020: 2/2 (50%)
2019: 4/1/3 (50%)BTW, your premise is:
Carisbrook was known as the house of pain and it was tough to win down there.
The new stadium doesn't have the same rep.Not that bad but not that good either.
Yes. I don't think the new stadium has the same reputation as Carisbrook as being a place tough to win at. Do you disagree with that?
Yeah, it's a shit take.
Carisbrook was a shithole and teams hated playing there, but that wasn't necessarily because of the quality of the Landers teams and whether they could get a win or not. It was just a freezing shithole.
That's my point that the freezing shithole gave them an edge and made them tougher. It may have been a freezing shithole but it was their freezing shithole.
The current crop of players don't have the same kind of edge. You show some great results in the mid 10's but a bunch of those players were probably forged at Carisbrook.
but there is no evidence to support that...if anything we've see the results are better at forsyth barr on average
40% at the brook and 62% at Forsyth Barr on average
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i for one would like to congratulate brodean for the new clubhouse lead for dumbest thread of the year.
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@mariner4life said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
i for one would like to congratulate brodean for the new clubhouse lead for dumbest thread of the year.
He also started the pot belly line of discussion in the ABs thread too. Off to a hot start
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@canefan said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@mariner4life said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
i for one would like to congratulate brodean for the new clubhouse lead for dumbest thread of the year.
He also started the pot belly line of discussion in the ABs thread too. Off to a hot start
Hey just doing my bit to move the talk away from Akira and Blackadder.
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@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@gt12 said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@gt12 said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
Where are the results for the last 8 years?
Linked above, but since you asked, they aren't actually that bad at home.
This year sucked (as did 2022) but before that they were still a better chance to win at home than not.
2025: 2/5 (29%)
2024: 4/3 (57%)
2023: 4/3 (57%)
2022: 2/5 (29%)
2021: 3/0 (100%)
2020: 2/2 (50%)
2019: 4/1/3 (50%)BTW, your premise is:
Carisbrook was known as the house of pain and it was tough to win down there.
The new stadium doesn't have the same rep.Not that bad but not that good either.
Yes. I don't think the new stadium has the same reputation as Carisbrook as being a place tough to win at. Do you disagree with that?
Yeah, it's a shit take.
Carisbrook was a shithole and teams hated playing there, but that wasn't necessarily because of the quality of the Landers teams and whether they could get a win or not. It was just a freezing shithole.
That's my point that the freezing shithole gave them an edge and made them tougher. It may have been a freezing shithole but it was their freezing shithole.
The current crop of players don't have the same kind of edge. You show some great results in the mid 10's but a bunch of those players were probably forged at Carisbrook.
Feel free to move the goalposts as much as you like mate.
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@gt12 said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
To reinforce the point, let's look at a representative example of what the Landers teams looked like when the Brook was 'feared'. I'll choose 2001 because I found it first. I think 2000 may have been stronger as Kronfeld may have still been around.
Highlanders Squad:
Forwards: Samui Vahafalou, Josh Blackie, John Blaikie, Taine Randell, Kelvin Middleton, Vulla Maimuri, Finau Maka, Simon Maling, Carl Hayman, Carl Hoeft, Joe McDonnell, Kees Meeuws, Anton Oliver, Tom Willis.
Backs: Jeff Wilson, Brendan Laney, Mark Urwin, Iliesa Tanivula, Romi Ropati, George Leaupepe, Neil Brew, Pita Alatini, Tony Brown, Byron Kelleher, Andrew (Billy) Fulton.
I count 9 ABs in the forwards, including the starting front row, and the AB captain, and 4 in the backs, including at least 2 (3) in the 23.
Results at home: 6/0 (100%)
Shall we compare with this year's team?
I think those players you list there were generally mentally tougher than the current crop - particularly in the forwards. The Highlanders squad has some genuine talent in it on paper and the results are not adding up.
Well, about 12 of them All Blacks, so it's not that surprising that they were tougher than the current crop of journey men and maybes.
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@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@canefan said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@mariner4life said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
i for one would like to congratulate brodean for the new clubhouse lead for dumbest thread of the year.
He also started the pot belly line of discussion in the ABs thread too. Off to a hot start
Hey just doing my bit to move the talk away from Akira and Blackadder.
Don't worry mate, just own it. We've all made cold takes in the past
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@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@gt12 said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@gt12 said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
Where are the results for the last 8 years?
Linked above, but since you asked, they aren't actually that bad at home.
This year sucked (as did 2022) but before that they were still a better chance to win at home than not.
2025: 2/5 (29%)
2024: 4/3 (57%)
2023: 4/3 (57%)
2022: 2/5 (29%)
2021: 3/0 (100%)
2020: 2/2 (50%)
2019: 4/1/3 (50%)BTW, your premise is:
Carisbrook was known as the house of pain and it was tough to win down there.
The new stadium doesn't have the same rep.Not that bad but not that good either.
Yes. I don't think the new stadium has the same reputation as Carisbrook as being a place tough to win at. Do you disagree with that?
Yeah, it's a shit take.
Carisbrook was a shithole and teams hated playing there, but that wasn't necessarily because of the quality of the Landers teams and whether they could get a win or not. It was just a freezing shithole.
That's my point that the freezing shithole gave them an edge and made them tougher. It may have been a freezing shithole but it was their freezing shithole.
The current crop of players don't have the same kind of edge. You show some great results in the mid 10's but a bunch of those players were probably forged at Carisbrook.
You have been proved wrong with stats and results.
Also Forsyth Barr is not warm. It may not be wet. But the stadium is not warm. If it is 4c outside during an evening game. It is 4c inside the stadium. Only time it can be is when the team plays afternoon games and it gets the glasshouse effect. Not many of those though.
Also, they get one training session there per game week. Every other session is run at Logan Park. Outside. Potentially in the rain and wind.
Then players who aren't in match day squads. Head off to their clubs for training nights. Off to shitty Shark Park, Hancock, down to Port Chalmers. About 200 minutes of stadium time, give or take a week. Isn't the deciding factor.
Fluffybunny thread.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@gt12 said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@gt12 said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
Where are the results for the last 8 years?
Linked above, but since you asked, they aren't actually that bad at home.
This year sucked (as did 2022) but before that they were still a better chance to win at home than not.
2025: 2/5 (29%)
2024: 4/3 (57%)
2023: 4/3 (57%)
2022: 2/5 (29%)
2021: 3/0 (100%)
2020: 2/2 (50%)
2019: 4/1/3 (50%)BTW, your premise is:
Carisbrook was known as the house of pain and it was tough to win down there.
The new stadium doesn't have the same rep.Not that bad but not that good either.
Yes. I don't think the new stadium has the same reputation as Carisbrook as being a place tough to win at. Do you disagree with that?
Yeah, it's a shit take.
Carisbrook was a shithole and teams hated playing there, but that wasn't necessarily because of the quality of the Landers teams and whether they could get a win or not. It was just a freezing shithole.
That's my point that the freezing shithole gave them an edge and made them tougher. It may have been a freezing shithole but it was their freezing shithole.
The current crop of players don't have the same kind of edge. You show some great results in the mid 10's but a bunch of those players were probably forged at Carisbrook.
but there is no evidence to support that...if anything we've see the results are better at forsyth barr on average
40% at the brook and 62% at Forsyth Barr on average
Yeah look I see where you're coming from but reputations don't have a lot to do with stats. They're usually based on legend, myth, and aura.
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@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@Kiwiwomble said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@gt12 said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@gt12 said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
Where are the results for the last 8 years?
Linked above, but since you asked, they aren't actually that bad at home.
This year sucked (as did 2022) but before that they were still a better chance to win at home than not.
2025: 2/5 (29%)
2024: 4/3 (57%)
2023: 4/3 (57%)
2022: 2/5 (29%)
2021: 3/0 (100%)
2020: 2/2 (50%)
2019: 4/1/3 (50%)BTW, your premise is:
Carisbrook was known as the house of pain and it was tough to win down there.
The new stadium doesn't have the same rep.Not that bad but not that good either.
Yes. I don't think the new stadium has the same reputation as Carisbrook as being a place tough to win at. Do you disagree with that?
Yeah, it's a shit take.
Carisbrook was a shithole and teams hated playing there, but that wasn't necessarily because of the quality of the Landers teams and whether they could get a win or not. It was just a freezing shithole.
That's my point that the freezing shithole gave them an edge and made them tougher. It may have been a freezing shithole but it was their freezing shithole.
The current crop of players don't have the same kind of edge. You show some great results in the mid 10's but a bunch of those players were probably forged at Carisbrook.
but there is no evidence to support that...if anything we've see the results are better at forsyth barr on average
40% at the brook and 62% at Forsyth Barr on average
Yeah look I see where you're coming from but reputations don't have a lot to do with stats. They're usually based on legend, myth, and aura.
but thats not what your original post said
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
.........
The current Highlanders team don't fight tooth and nail as much as the Otago teams of old.
Will the new stadium in Christchurch make the Crusaders/Canterbury soft?
we can see they seem to fight harder if results are how we're gauging it and if its not results then im not sure how youre measuring it
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@canefan said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@canefan said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@mariner4life said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
i for one would like to congratulate brodean for the new clubhouse lead for dumbest thread of the year.
He also started the pot belly line of discussion in the ABs thread too. Off to a hot start
Hey just doing my bit to move the talk away from Akira and Blackadder.
Don't worry mate, just own it. We've all made cold takes in the past
speak for yourself, i make mine hottest of the hot
Mariner A Smith
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@mariner4life said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@canefan said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@canefan said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@mariner4life said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
i for one would like to congratulate brodean for the new clubhouse lead for dumbest thread of the year.
He also started the pot belly line of discussion in the ABs thread too. Off to a hot start
Hey just doing my bit to move the talk away from Akira and Blackadder.
Don't worry mate, just own it. We've all made cold takes in the past
speak for yourself, i make mine hottest of the hot
Mariner A Smith
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@Kiwiwomble said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@Kiwiwomble said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@gt12 said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@gt12 said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
Where are the results for the last 8 years?
Linked above, but since you asked, they aren't actually that bad at home.
This year sucked (as did 2022) but before that they were still a better chance to win at home than not.
2025: 2/5 (29%)
2024: 4/3 (57%)
2023: 4/3 (57%)
2022: 2/5 (29%)
2021: 3/0 (100%)
2020: 2/2 (50%)
2019: 4/1/3 (50%)BTW, your premise is:
Carisbrook was known as the house of pain and it was tough to win down there.
The new stadium doesn't have the same rep.Not that bad but not that good either.
Yes. I don't think the new stadium has the same reputation as Carisbrook as being a place tough to win at. Do you disagree with that?
Yeah, it's a shit take.
Carisbrook was a shithole and teams hated playing there, but that wasn't necessarily because of the quality of the Landers teams and whether they could get a win or not. It was just a freezing shithole.
That's my point that the freezing shithole gave them an edge and made them tougher. It may have been a freezing shithole but it was their freezing shithole.
The current crop of players don't have the same kind of edge. You show some great results in the mid 10's but a bunch of those players were probably forged at Carisbrook.
but there is no evidence to support that...if anything we've see the results are better at forsyth barr on average
40% at the brook and 62% at Forsyth Barr on average
Yeah look I see where you're coming from but reputations don't have a lot to do with stats. They're usually based on legend, myth, and aura.
but thats not what your original post said
@brodean said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
.........
The current Highlanders team don't fight tooth and nail as much as the Otago teams of old.
Will the new stadium in Christchurch make the Crusaders/Canterbury soft?
we can see they seem to fight harder if results are how we're gauging it and if its not results then im not sure how youre measuring it
100%
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thinking about this even more
previous highlanders squads had many more AB's than we typically see no days....youre claiming these guys fought harder...and yet got worse results?....so if the vibe and the results are both true then the brook must have been a hinderance! better players working harder got worse results? the cold dark shit hole must have been the problem....
well done shitting on the legacy
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I read this thread because I am trying to avoid studying for an exam, but I have to say that as a debate I thought that it ended here:
@SouthernMann said in Did the new Dunedin stadium make the Highlanders/Otago soft?:
No.
