Blues 2025
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Think the Blues will struggle to hang on to Papali'i and Sotutu. This is a major blow.
I find it incredible that the Blues only have 1 forward they consider worthy of selection.
@brodean said in Blues 2025:
Think the Blues will struggle to hang on to Papali'i and Sotutu. This is a major blow.
I find it incredible that the Blues only have 1 forward they consider worthy of selection.
Yeah it's becoming harder and harder to keep hold of our players these days due to them rightly or wrongly getting snubbed for higher honours.
Still, it's a long season, injuries are gonna happen, so hopefully we see a few more of our boys in Black as the season goes on.
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Think the Blues will struggle to hang on to Papali'i and Sotutu. This is a major blow.
I find it incredible that the Blues only have 1 forward they consider worthy of selection.
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@george33 said in Blues 2025:
Hoskins next season can't see them leaving.
Akira was contracted as well. Once a player wants to go, it's done basically.
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@george33 said in Blues 2025:
Hoskins next season can't see them leaving.
Akira was contracted as well. Once a player wants to go, it's done basically.
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@george33 said in Blues 2025:
@brodean Dalton is contracted to end of 27, Hoskins next season can't see them leaving.
Contracts don't mean much McALister moved to the Chiefs when he was still contracted to the Crusaders for 2 more years and was released.
If players really want to go they get a release. -
@george33 said in Blues 2025:
@nzzp pretty sure Akira was of contract when he left
He had a year remaining.
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Most players now have out clauses, especially guys at that level ifnthey miss AB selection they can head off for some cash...
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If Papalii wants to fight for his spot he should put on some size and try and play 6 for the Blues
Segner is more of a 7 anyway - Suafoa has bigger things to worry about than rugby and Che Clark has to establish himself at NPC level let alone Super level.
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If Papalii wants to fight for his spot he should put on some size and try and play 6 for the Blues
Segner is more of a 7 anyway - Suafoa has bigger things to worry about than rugby and Che Clark has to establish himself at NPC level let alone Super level.
@KiwiMurph said in Blues 2025:
If Papalii wants to fight for his spot he should put on some size and try and play 6 for the Blues
Segner is more of a 7 anyway - Suafoa has bigger things to worry about than rugby and Che Clark has to establish himself at NPC level let alone Super level.
Yeah, I think that first Test against Argentina in Wellington pretty much shut the door for Papali’i as a Test openside for the foreseeable future. I recently watched that game back and it was pretty clear how the chaotic nature of Razorball doesn’t really suit the natural game of a player like Papali’i, who seems to thrive more in the Blues’ narrow gameplan. Blackadder was consistently arriving at rucks before Papali’i, which isn’t how you want your openside-blindside balance to be.
To me, it also looked like him potentially going down the blindside-route was already the plan before the 2025 season, with Papali’i playing a half at lock for Counties in the NPC when he was coming back from injury last year. It didn’t really pan out that way for the Blues, but I suppose they wanted to limit the changes with Ioane already leaving. But as long as Robertson is the AB coach and the game plan is focused on speed and ball movement, I think 6 is the only way Papali’i gets back into the starting 15.
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@KiwiMurph said in Blues 2025:
If Papalii wants to fight for his spot he should put on some size and try and play 6 for the Blues
Segner is more of a 7 anyway - Suafoa has bigger things to worry about than rugby and Che Clark has to establish himself at NPC level let alone Super level.
Yeah, I think that first Test against Argentina in Wellington pretty much shut the door for Papali’i as a Test openside for the foreseeable future. I recently watched that game back and it was pretty clear how the chaotic nature of Razorball doesn’t really suit the natural game of a player like Papali’i, who seems to thrive more in the Blues’ narrow gameplan. Blackadder was consistently arriving at rucks before Papali’i, which isn’t how you want your openside-blindside balance to be.
To me, it also looked like him potentially going down the blindside-route was already the plan before the 2025 season, with Papali’i playing a half at lock for Counties in the NPC when he was coming back from injury last year. It didn’t really pan out that way for the Blues, but I suppose they wanted to limit the changes with Ioane already leaving. But as long as Robertson is the AB coach and the game plan is focused on speed and ball movement, I think 6 is the only way Papali’i gets back into the starting 15.
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If the first test against the Pumas shut the door why did he start in the 2nd test?
Why was he originally named in the Eoyt NH tour squad that followed?
@brodean said in Blues 2025:
If the first test against the Pumas shut the door why did he start in the 2nd test?
Why was he originally named in the Eoyt NH tour squad that followed?
Well, I'm guessing they wanted Cane to return from the bench and they wanted to give Papali'i another shot. But seeing how he didn't play another minute after that second test - where he was subbed in the 50th minute - is pretty indicative, I think.
And my guess, for the Northern Tour, is that they wanted to try him in a blindside/bench-role. Hence the minutes at lock for Counties.
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@brodean said in Blues 2025:
If the first test against the Pumas shut the door why did he start in the 2nd test?
Why was he originally named in the Eoyt NH tour squad that followed?
Well, I'm guessing they wanted Cane to return from the bench and they wanted to give Papali'i another shot. But seeing how he didn't play another minute after that second test - where he was subbed in the 50th minute - is pretty indicative, I think.
And my guess, for the Northern Tour, is that they wanted to try him in a blindside/bench-role. Hence the minutes at lock for Counties.
@Mauss said in Blues 2025:
@brodean said in Blues 2025:
If the first test against the Pumas shut the door why did he start in the 2nd test?
Why was he originally named in the Eoyt NH tour squad that followed?
Well, I'm guessing they wanted Cane to return from the bench and they wanted to give Papali'i another shot. But seeing how he didn't play another minute after that second test - where he was subbed in the 50th minute - is pretty indicative, I think.
And my guess, for the Northern Tour, is that they wanted to try him in a blindside/bench-role. Hence the minutes at lock for Counties.
He broke his thumb during the 2nd Pumas test.
Then came back in round 9 of the NPC for 20 minutes and did his hammy.
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@brodean said in Blues 2025:
He broke his thumb.
He was fit for the 2nd Springbok Test and wasn't picked. He isn't picked now. I think it's good to try to understand why.
I would've liked to have seen Papali'i picked. I think he's a genuine option at 6. If Vern Cotter was the coach of the ABs, he would be a great option at 7 as well. But he isn't.
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@brodean said in Blues 2025:
He broke his thumb.
He was fit for the 2nd Springbok Test and wasn't picked. He isn't picked now. I think it's good to try to understand why.
I would've liked to have seen Papali'i picked. I think he's a genuine option at 6. If Vern Cotter was the coach of the ABs, he would be a great option at 7 as well. But he isn't.
@Mauss said in Blues 2025:
@brodean said in Blues 2025:
He broke his thumb.
He was fit for the 2nd Springbok Test and wasn't picked. He isn't picked now. I think it's good to try to understand why.
I would've liked to have seen Papali'i picked. I think he's a genuine option at 6. If Vern Cotter was the coach of the ABs, he would be a great option at 7 as well. But he isn't.
From memory he played at 6 for the ABs a year or two ago and the general consensus wasn't highly favourable even though many felt he was a 7/6 and would do well there.
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@brodean said in Blues 2025:
He broke his thumb.
He was fit for the 2nd Springbok Test and wasn't picked. He isn't picked now. I think it's good to try to understand why.
I would've liked to have seen Papali'i picked. I think he's a genuine option at 6. If Vern Cotter was the coach of the ABs, he would be a great option at 7 as well. But he isn't.
@Mauss said in Blues 2025:
@brodean said in Blues 2025:
He broke his thumb.
He was fit for the 2nd Springbok Test and wasn't picked. He isn't picked now. I think it's good to try to understand why.
Well that's your speculation. They wanted to give Cane a go. He did his hammy in the Counties game and then was done for the rest of tyear.
My speculation is that his game is too much slanted towards cleans and defence which suits the Blues game plan but not the game that Razor wants. Not enough carries and not enough jackling. His game lacks balance in his workrate.
He topped the tackles and total rucks but he is one of the lowest carriers per 80 minutes from New Zealand loose forwards..
Tom Christie and Adrian Choat ffs carry more than him and he's a much better carrier than either of them.
His playing weight for the last two seasons at the Blues is 114kg so I don't see any need for him to put on more weight. If anything he's got too much weight for openside - it's to help with the cleans but I think it would hinder his carry ability and agility.
Jacobson, Kirifi and Lakai are carrying twice as much.
Carries Per 80 Minutes
18.77 Wallace Sititi
14.16 Vaiolini Ekuasi
13.87 Peter Lakai
12.71 Hoskins Sotutu
12.62 Ardie Savea
11.72 Christian Lio-Willie
11.21 Brayden Iose
10.55 Ethan Blackadder
10.34 Corey Kellow
10.28 Luke Jacobson
9.85 Du'Plessis Kirifi
9.43 Simon Parker
8.95 Hugh Renton
8.85 TK Howden
8.69 Reed Prinsep
8.64 Tom Christie
8.4 Cullen Grace
8.22 Sean Withy
7.94 Samipeni Finau
7.62 Jahrome Brown
7.58 Adrian Choat
6.98 Anton Segner
6.35 Kaylum Boshier
5.26 Dalton Papali'i
5.13 Oliver Haig
4.99 Veveni Lasaqa -
@Mauss said in Blues 2025:
@brodean said in Blues 2025:
He broke his thumb.
He was fit for the 2nd Springbok Test and wasn't picked. He isn't picked now. I think it's good to try to understand why.
I would've liked to have seen Papali'i picked. I think he's a genuine option at 6. If Vern Cotter was the coach of the ABs, he would be a great option at 7 as well. But he isn't.
From memory he played at 6 for the ABs a year or two ago and the general consensus wasn't highly favourable even though many felt he was a 7/6 and would do well there.
Well he got one game which we lost. Did well in the lineout but looked confused around the field as to where he should be.
I think him losing the captaincy for the Blues has been a major negative impact on his career.
For his AB's career I don't think Vernball has helped him or any of the Blues forwards.
The AB's results were poor last year so lets see if Razor's width game works better this year.
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@Mauss said in Blues 2025:
@brodean said in Blues 2025:
He broke his thumb.
He was fit for the 2nd Springbok Test and wasn't picked. He isn't picked now. I think it's good to try to understand why.
Well that's your speculation. They wanted to give Cane a go. He did his hammy in the Counties game and then was done for the rest of tyear.
My speculation is that his game is too much slanted towards cleans and defence which suits the Blues game plan but not the game that Razor wants. Not enough carries and not enough jackling. His game lacks balance in his workrate.
He topped the tackles and total rucks but he is one of the lowest carriers per 80 minutes from New Zealand loose forwards..
Tom Christie and Adrian Choat ffs carry more than him and he's a much better carrier than either of them.
His playing weight for the last two seasons at the Blues is 114kg so I don't see any need for him to put on more weight. If anything he's got too much weight for openside - it's to help with the cleans but I think it would hinder his carry ability and agility.
Jacobson, Kirifi and Lakai are carrying twice as much.
Carries Per 80 Minutes
18.77 Wallace Sititi
14.16 Vaiolini Ekuasi
13.87 Peter Lakai
12.71 Hoskins Sotutu
12.62 Ardie Savea
11.72 Christian Lio-Willie
11.21 Brayden Iose
10.55 Ethan Blackadder
10.34 Corey Kellow
10.28 Luke Jacobson
9.85 Du'Plessis Kirifi
9.43 Simon Parker
8.95 Hugh Renton
8.85 TK Howden
8.69 Reed Prinsep
8.64 Tom Christie
8.4 Cullen Grace
8.22 Sean Withy
7.94 Samipeni Finau
7.62 Jahrome Brown
7.58 Adrian Choat
6.98 Anton Segner
6.35 Kaylum Boshier
5.26 Dalton Papali'i
5.13 Oliver Haig
4.99 Veveni Lasaqa@brodean said in Blues 2025:
Well that's your speculation.
As always, the key is in the words that we use.
@Mauss said in Blues 2025:
Yeah, I think that first Test against Argentina...
Seems pretty speculative indeed.
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My guess on Papalii is that they will play Ardie at 7.
In that case, selecting Paps means completely changing the balance of the loose forward trio to play him. Kirifi is a good like-for-like replacement for Ardie (as a 7).
If that is the start point, the balance of the backrow needs size at 6 and workrate from 8, but Paps doesn't really play either - he's been (until now) very much a 7 who can move, as opposed to a utility.
He'll lose out to Jacobson who makes sense as the second best Sititi style 8. Arguably that player could also be Sotutu, but let's put that side for now.
At 6, they want size, and they've saved a spot which will be covered by Vaaii until our Chiefs boy is fit.
It's shit for Paps, but at least it appears that they have a plan for the loosies and only plan to carry one utility. On form and utility value, I can see why that is Jacobson.
